Link to the observer thread

Link to scum chat

Thanks to all the players and to Bookwyrm!

Hip hip hooray!

Well played everyone :)

So, I have two traitor corpses. Which weapon would you like to see first?

thank you so much cristi for hosting an awesome game!!!! well done, team!

trent, I have your # !

for those that don't enjoy playing with me, can we please try starting afresh? I DO NOT try to pick fights, ever. I get frustrated easily and I'm sorry for not handling it better.

HSL, I have learned that you and I simply have communication problems. We can work on this, if we work on it together instead of pick each other apart.

Yes, I "complain" about being misrepped and misunderstood, but it is not meant to be a simple complaint or whiny, it is meant to try and make others realize that I'm either not being clear and I know that I'm not being clear, or that they just "got me wrong" and let's try and figure out how/why.

I know I can be hard to understand, seriously, my brain is different than most ppls, it is hard for me to put thoughts down linearly for others to "see" what I see, and I want to try and be clear so it's a signaler of "hey, this part was misunderstood let's try to parse it and figure out why"; it's a plea from me saying "hey, can we work on this so we can get on the same page?"

I'm not a strong town player. I can get really good reads as town, but expressing them and helping others understand them is where I need to improve. I was sure hunter was town. I was sure gamma was town. can anyone help me? what could I have done better to come off as town who was right rather than scum who *knew* ? Then I was also right about Lift and hammered him as scum. I mean, ideally I would have been the N2 kill after all that, right? but instead I get left alive because of how I go about it all and "oh he is ML bait because he's so scummy."

I REALLY don't want to play scummy as town. I try to be very pro-town by sharing all my thoughts and views and bringing up possibilities. I think that is what I do wrongly maybe? I express what I see as possible too confidently and ppl think I'm being arrogant or too certain, when all I intend to do is make a strong case on a POSSIBILITY.

Like, I took a lot of philosophy classes in college. I was taught how to make a strong argument. That's what you're supposed to do when you want to convince people. It doesn't mean I'm arrogant or a know-it-all, it means I know how to make a strong argument. I think anyway?

congrats trent on the new gig

congrats town on the win

I'll just offer this tidbit. Don't use words like "I know" Hunter and Gamma are town. Or "I know" it's a mislynch. Words like "I feel" or "I suspect" or "I think" with some reasons work much better. The rest of us are uninformed town too. The only players who "know" are scum.

If you are countering the lynch, you also need to offer up suggestions of an alternative. Don't just tell everybody they are wrong. Offer an alternative and/or explain what you think we missed in as much detail as you can. And if you can't explain it, maybe hold off on posting until you figure out why you feel that way and can explain it.

I was starting to read you as Town right up until you flip-flopped saying you absolutely were not voting Lift to dropping the hammer. I turned around because your flip-flop made a lot of sense with day chat suggestions.

RE: *know*

I mean, it's mafia, I figure everyone knows that no one *knows* ANYthing unless they have a PR that told them so, or they're scum. As scum, you aren't going to reveal that you *know*, so, it's not like it's a scumslip saying you *know*, and if you're a PR, unless you're intentionally outting that you have solid information (which the should be explicitly obvious), it shouldn't be able to be determined that you are simply because you use the term *know.* It's always that knowing of not absolute certainty, but of quite-certainty that you feel so certain about you use the term to express your confidence.

With that, I rarely use the term *know*, and if I do, it is with purpose to express that extreme confidence. Otherwise, I THOUGHT at least, I do a pretty good job of having all my statements tempered with "of course I don't KNOW, it's just a possibility", as I think everyone when making their statements has the same position because of the nature of mafia.

I need to establish that most of what I say is a simple contemplation of the POSSIBILITY. I sometimes don't even think something to be likely, but it is still possible, and I like to talk about possibilities and see what other ppl think about such possibilities.

To me, that hammering of lift wouldn't have happened if I were scum after I made the comment "I'm not going to vote him" - to me, that would have been me "writing my way out" of voting a scum-buddy, and I would have stuck to it and not voted him. That I voted him, while of course the action is going to be WIFOMed, I think should have indicated that I was WAYYYmore likely to be town.

but, yeah, I'm working on it all and I appreciate all the feedback (not looking to argue, just expressing self)

Congratulations, team! And thanks cristi for hosting this one. I really like the setup for immediately giving us something meaningful to talk about, thereby skipping RVS.

I'm really sorry for bailing out on you all, but that was absolutely the right decision for me personally, and also for town. That computer upgrade sucked the life out of me over the weekend, and combined with rising stress levels due to work matters (which finally, hopefully, should've been resolved for good only yesterday), I just couldn't gather the energy to give the game the attention it deserved. Found myself constantly thinking on the Sunday that I should just hammer adalia instead of putting in the necessary effort to re-evaluate - so that was a pretty clear indication to me that I shouldn't be participating anymore. Massive thanks to Brasas for stepping in!

Will read chats later - looking forward to that. :)

You're welcome. Was nice to step in - especially on Hyper's toes :P

Ooph mate...

On one hand it's kind of commendable how much you want to be open / transparent, and it's actually very brave.

On the other, and I think this is the one big thing - you really need to work on holding stuff in (or finding other ways to get it out of your system). What exactly is "wrong" with it (do note the "" - we are talking about how you are perceived / come off not your inherent being) varies - sometimes it's the timing, sometimes the lack of determination, the profanity, the verbosity, the eagerness... all of it can matter and none of it really matters to you being judged as scummy.

It's basically self control, or the lack thereoff you know? It kind of shines through in many things you do... that said, and I'm sure this will not be any surprise to you, but it's your anger management that puts people off the most.

Anyone else having touble with the links? Did I get shadow banned over at Quicktopic or something?

And I'm (kinda) sorry Hyper won't get to change his sig...

Thanks for setting up something this original. :)

Scum Drealmer loves to NK me though it be the lynch of him next day :)

I was getting all knotted up trying to think if D4 speculation would be a net benefit or a net loss in case Trent was a mislynch. My paranoia that Adalia might have made a brilliant scum play with the self vote and coordinated the interactions with Lift was only mildly tempered by thinking he should be the natural suspect D4 and you were maybe exagerating your TR of him.

Anyway, for a first game with either of you this was good. Even if I was here only halfway through.

I wasn't around too much but I did quick skimming whenever I could and I want to congratulate the majority of the town on how they managed to handle this - good job!

Also, congrats to my man Trent on the personal achievement! I'm certain it's well deserved and probably overdue :)

@adalia, you made it to the end?! Nicely done! :P

Thanks for hosting, cristi and sorry I wasn't able to partake.

Things learned for next time playing scum:
1. learn to bus - I'm way too overprotective of fellow scum
2. Kill HSL as early as possible. :-)

Fun game though! Too bad the increased pressure on me coincided with me having so little time. That made it really difficult to come up with good responses, because that takes time.

Thanks everyone for the congrats, they are much appreciated! Thanks again cristi for hosting, was a very fun game. Congrats to town y'all made it a lot of fun. Especially you adalia, I really enjoyed the back and forth with you :-)

@drealmer, think of it this way. On the internet there's no way to articulate your tone and expressions in a post so you have to be very careful with wording. What RW told you is a very good point and you should try to change how you say things because you come off as arrogant or very angry most of the time (at least to me).

I know, right? I survived, second game ever I think :)

Both good lessons. I know RW and Hyper were on to you, but if you had bussed trent I would never have guessed you were scum. I may have figured it out eventually, but I'd likely have been mislynched or helped you lynch drealmer or gogtrial first.
HSL is dangerous, which is why I was amazed he survived night 1 when he was so townie.

You played a really good game and I enjoyed it a lot to. Glad you were scum though, I'd have hated to have pursued you so much and been wrong XD. You almost had me fooled at the end of day 1, you've got a really good response to pressure most of the time.
But it was Hyper's insight that sealed the deal for me.. I thought you were hanging back on drealmer because you were buddies, but Hyper made me realise you and Lift were both prepping him for a lynch but remaining hands off and hoping we'd do the work. Ironically I think if you'd pushed him more I'd have been less suspicious.

Thanks for feedback ppls, keep it coming if you feel it will be good.

I also think it possible that I come off angry more often than I intend to because, for a while when I was first playing with you all, I'd get D1 lynched and it made me ANGRY and I'd rage and flail not knowing mafia well enough to how to handle the pressure. Then there was zeo who made me really angry in a game for not wanting to take a single piece of advice, and then I raged at flub in the next game, and now I've built a reputation of being angrier than I actually am. And sooo, I think MAYBE my tone gets read as angry or quick-to-anger more often than I actually am anymore. Like, you're all ready for me to go off and so you see it happening when it's not, or you feel it more intense when it is really just a bit of frustration? This is why I ask to start a-fresh too. Not that I'm not going to work on trying to not come off that way more, certainly!

but I would like a little slack (life has been really stressful to say the least, and I'm here to have fun, let's all help each other have fun!), maybe ask if I'm angry instead of assuming it so we don't start bickering over non-content related to how I presented my thoughts rather than talking about my thoughts. I'm often telling people "forget about how I presented my thoughts and get to the actual thoughts that are presented and let's talk about them."

Like, if I scream at someone "OMFG RECYCLE YOUR FuCKING PLASTICS YOU'RE DESTROYING THE PLANET YOU ASSOLE!" people want to be like "omg you're so mean I'm not going to listen to you" and it's like 'forget about me being mean in telling you THE TRUTH and fucking focus on the point of what I'm saying, it doesn't change the facts." - Could I go about that better? absolutely, but it doesn't change the the argument and if you can just get your ego out of the conversation, all would be fine.

anyway, probably enough of all of this (:

you know, I should probably just roleplay more! pattycakes with the walls and space-sickness and whatnot.