*sigh* I too have problems getting a long post through. Let's try it in shorter chunks. (I refreshed four times in two browsers. This really can't end up a double post!)

Honestly, I think I'm still developing my playstyle as I go along, tuning it based on various experiences. An example I think I've pointed out before is how I volunteer town reads less swiftly than I did in my first game, since those townies invariably got killed. (Also why I expected the same as Lift, namely me being NKed, as I thought I was most widely seen as town.) I think I might still volunteer slightly more information than trent, but mostly I ask a lot more questions than him, which should be informative in their own right. (Who specifically do I ask about whom? What do I push on?) And although I certainly respond more to others than start new conversations myself, that's not nearly exclusively what I do.
That said, I'll also admit to feeling a bit out of things while playing last week - too many real life things sucking up time, so when I got to the game, I went at it with less energy than I might've otherwise devoted to it. I didn't think that was affecting things particularly, but maybe it was.

Okay, I think I might not actually understand what you mean. I think I do interact with others. I don't go for the more emotional play which I've seen a lot in this game, but I feel I've certainly pressed people when they don't give enough, and am drawing my conclusions from that. Were you just expecting me to share more of those conclusions, or of the thought-chains leading up to them?

I don't feel insecure (mostly; I of course have moments of doubt where I wonder if I said or did something really stupid). I do try to be precise with what I say, and I don't go out on a limb just trying to get a reaction. That might be defensive play (not wanting to offer scum a chance to mislynch me), but mostly I feel this game is won just as much by town building up trust as it is by flushing out scum, and the former of those is something I can work at all the time, while the second takes a bit of luck and a bit of increasing the pressure on scum gradually until they make an inexorable mistake.

Maybe... dun-dun-dun-duuun... I purposefully made myself seem like a newbie, fumbling under time pressure, so scum would think I would be a viable mislynch candidate for the next day after all, and kill someone else - all so that I might hunt them another day?

Erm, yeah, nope - sorry, that thought process isn't me as either town or scum. (I assume, but who knows what deviousness I will still find within myself when I roll scum.) I've explained my posts; up to the rest of town to trust in that or not.

At the point when I first read this question - checking in very swiftly this morning before work - I was primarily suspecting RW. Three reasons: 1) He was the prime suspect of two confirmed townies at a point where I wasn't exactly trusting my own reads all that much, 2) the way he voted Drealmer, strongly mirroring the way he voted Gamma on D1, and 3) never responding to my town read of Hunter when I responded to his first "see what you think?" post. (If you are town, have a scum read and are inviting comments, following up on someone coming to the opposite conclusion seems like a rather logical step.)
Adalia had been a prime suspect for a long time, but I had started liking his posts more and more, and I was slowly getting convinced he might be town. Drealmer felt off a bit, trent too absent but basically okay, and I was wondering if HSL was really just doing the due diligence I had so far read his questions as, or if he was ever so subtly attempting to set me up for a mislynch. (Responding to his post, above, helped me see his questions in a more positive light, though.)

Now...? Well, I'll get to that in a bit.

So... erm? How come you didn't just say so, then? Instead you seemed to be inventing town tells on the spot, and weak ones at that...

Thank you. This is what clinched it for me.

If drealmer is scum, that confirms hsl as town, who doesn't really need confirming, other than in drealmer's eyes (and in my paranoid thoughts, which I assume are mirrored by every other town-player). If drealmer is actually scum, I could literally see every single other player as drealmer's scum partner, and would take my hat off reverently for such skillful play. So strong disagreement that finding his partner wouldn't be too tough.

But I particularly like your leap of thought witnessed in: "RW could be scum, and with us in the scenario of having safely mislynched drealmer, he could only be scum with gogtrial or adalia or hsl, so since the general sentiment sees gogtrial as townier than adalia, and adalia was just instrumental in getting drealmer mislynched, town will obviously go along with the thought to lynch gogtrial at lylo, rather than lynching RW himself, because that way we can also implicate trent rather than my good buddy RW!"

I'm sorry, did I paraphrase that a bit too much? :D

That's very good to know.

Welcome back!

I've warmed a lot to Lift with his recent posts, and that while I already had him leaning town. Even if I'm wrong about either adalia or RW, I would only 'expect' him to flip scum in the nightmare scenario of the two of you being scum together.
Adalia is the scummiest, with an asterisk, because I also recently read him as town.
RWarehall must be his scum-partner. Implicated by association more than through anything I am capable of seeing in his posts, but his period of absence, voting record, and particularly voting behaviour speaks very loudly indeed. I've also noticed some early interactions. For example RW's #179 "I thought I might be onto something regarding Trent.", which was then smoothly taken over by adalia in #186 "RWarehall has already raised the issue I was pondering", who has been running with it basically ever since (#210, #214, #234, #258, #273, #376, #417). And then there was adalia defending RW against Hunter (much more than RW defended himself), and, scrolling past it all, really quite a lot of the two of them town-reading each other.

Bother.
Really?
*frowns*
I'm going to vote anyway, but could you please paint me a more full picture of RW as town? (Could scum-adalia be buddying up to town-RW??!)

vote RWarehall

(Why not adalia? Well, I could definitely be convinced of that, but I read the team strongly enough that I feel this one has more value, confirming two town. Though dammit, now during the ten minute wait to post this second chunk, I'm really starting to wonder if adalia isn't the better choice after all. *glares at trent* Input please from anyone? Assume I'm generally on the right track here, even if you're not yet convinced of it yourself, but that only one of the two is scum - in that scenario, which of the two should be lynched, and why?)

As I told gogtrial on Day 1, RW has been laying back and observing how everyone one is behaving and questioning what he finds off, for me I find this to be the town RW. From what I've seen of him as scum he is more active and pushy in his play. Not an overly pushy, but he pushes someone into making mistakes that he can exploit and it doesn't feel like he is doing that now. Since Day 2 has started he has mainly been focused on drealmer, and I hope that is not all he focuses on for today.

Up until the end of Day 1 I found gogtrial to be leaning more town than most, but the way he went about trying to save Hunter at the end of Day 1 felt like scum trying to gain town cred. He's responded to questions on it since the day started and I feel better about what he did from his answers, but I'm still keeping my eye on him.

If it was lynch time right now I would vote either drealmer, adalia, or Lift. I don't like drealmer's let's just lynch anyone attitude, that's what scum want not someone who's claiming to be town. adalia and Lift as I already said because both seem to be scum hunting but I almost feel like they are just putting on a show at times more than actual scum hunting.

Well I figured scum might be more likely to either have been told or asked how the picking was done. But then when I considered it logically what you had said was actually the most likely scenario so I forgot about it.
What I had thought was that cristi might have made a list of all the possible pairs (like adalia and Hyper, adalia and RWarehall, etc.) and then rolled 1 of them to be the scum team. But after consideration that doesn't seem likely (certainly less likely than your method).

Yeah, I can certainly see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure anyone else pings me quite so hard as scum so I've got to work on the basis that he is scum this time and hiding behind his typical behaviour.

Because I wanted to try and remember what it was that had triggered that perception myself, so I looked back through to find things and having done so thought it better to post my thoughts rather than just say I didn't actually know why I had town read him.

Well that's the difference, I know I can't be drealmer's partner and doubt Lift is, so really it's down to RWarehall (highly unlikely unless they are doing the best distancing ever), you or trent in my eyes. But obviously everyone's going to see that differently.

You should actually read that as a compliment. You could be scum, but I highly doubt it and hence if you are RWarehall's only possibly scum partner then I doubt he is scum either. But if drealmer does flip town then you seem fairly likely to be scum with either trent or RWarehall (I would actually say RWarehall and trent is a very possible scum team, except it can't be) as the other options seem far less likely. In which case lynching you makes the most sense as you are the only one who could be scum with both of them.
Of course all that also only applies if you know I am town. In your eyes (assuming you are town) you probably see the exact reverse, with me in your place.


And whatever you think about it, call it bussing or what, I will happily lynch RWarehall today. But I do think it makes tomorrow slightly more difficult (assuming he is not scum).

I see that gogtrial34987 more or less caught and pointed out the couple of things about adaliabooks that aren't adding up for me either, after a reread of his posts from Today.

First thing is that [emphasis added] "If we kill drealmer there is a lot to learn". Really? Regardless of his alignment? If he flips scum, everybody and their grandmother was on his case for more or less the same reason(s), how can it be "not so tough" to figure out who his scum partner is? More importantly, what is this "a lot" that we learn" if he flips town? A case which he conveniently forgot to bring up. While he didn't when arguing against lynching RWarehall.
gogtrial34987 already covered the bit about player(s) confirmation, so won't get into that.

Next is the leap of thought gogtrial34987 already mentioned. To that I'd add - why shouldn't/wouldn't the #1 lynch candidate be adaliabooks himself since he'd have been instrumental in drealmer7's mislynch?

@adaliabooks how's that 24/7 scum chat working for you?



Did you just copy/paste your D1 post there? I think you did... I guess you were literal with that "As I told gogtrial on Day 1".

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you could be specific - could you point out what he questioned/questions as off? Preferably leaving out anything and everything drealmer7 related..Would you say that you agree with him on those "off's"?

What do you think of his post #317 and post #426? Taking into account that he claimed to have me town up to his post #317, do these still fit in your town-read of him?


Would drealmer7 be your top choice? Are you really 100% certain that it's scumminess? Are adaliabooks and Lifthrasil on the same level for you, and why?

Back to the nightly report: end of day, March 20

Votecount
RWarehall (2): drealmer7, gogtrial34987
drealmer7 (1): RWarehall

Not Voting: adaliabooks, HypersomiacLive, Lifthrasil, trentonlf

At L-2, RWarehall is closest to lynch.

Yes I did just copy and paste what I said to gogtrial day 1

Post 109, I agreed with his thoughts in this post and felt he was making solid reads as town and pushing gamma to engage.

Post 129 I also liked this post, again pushing gamma and giving solid reasons why. *I must note that in this post he clears drealmer for being just drealmer and has you as solid town, but now that gamma is off the table he finds drealmer to be scummy and you to be casting shade, he gives his reasons for his change in stance in post 426 (I can agree with his reasoning about drealmer, but not about you)

Post 261 and Post 263 I liked his reads on gamma and Hunter and felt he was doing his best to try and find scum and gave solid reasons why he thought gamma and Hunter were scum.

I don't find any other posts after 263 that he discusses anyone being off other than drealmer and you, and I did agree with RW on day 1 about gamma and Hunter, I felt we had nailed scum with either one and was surprised to see Hunter flip town and gamma be the NK.

I still find RW to be leaning town, but think he is misreading you. As I said before I like your questions, I find you often see things I miss and you are trying your best to uncover scum with people's reactions to your questions.

I would say that drealmer would not be my top choice right now, but if he keeps on with how he's been he would move to my top spot. I mean if he thinks everyone should be lynched how is that benefiting town? It seems he is just trying to be able to jump on any wagon and lynch someone. I'm not 100% certain it's scumminess and that's why I I have been trying to give drealmer the benefit of the doubt, but he is making it hard to not suspect him.

adalia and Lift are on the same level for me, I feel like both of them have been trying to look as townie as possible, but my gut tells me that it feels like they are scum tying to get over on us. Almost feels like they are a team to me.

I do care who we lynch, and the comfort of who we lynch is fluid, definitely

I just have reasons why I think it'd be okay to lynch all of you, that's not anti-towny, that's just how my reads are at this point nad I'm being honest about it, I'm not just like "yaaa let's lynch whoever it doesn't matter!!!" - at least I don't mean to be seeming that reckless, because I'm not

I'm liking how things are going.

It seems like in my efforts to be more concise, you've all gotten more wordy. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I think I like it!

trent keeps being a huge waffle for me, he is sharing some of my same thoughts on RW as far as "hmm, when RW is scum he's actually MORE towny seeming than he's being here, maybe because he has the information and confidence frmo that information to manipulate and be towny where as as town maybe he's a bit more inaccurate"- but it's a really hard call for me to see for sure(on RW.) trent himself could just be saying what is safe (a lot of what he is saying seems safe to me) and keeping his options open (and then I'm like well fuck, d, you are okay lynching anyone pretty much!)

the wagon builds will tell more

OK. I can see where you see the value in lynching RWarehall first if both are scum. But I wouldn't read too much in adalia's statement. Yes, he said he'd happily lynch RW - but that doesn't mean he will until his vote is actually placed. Scum can happily 'suspect' their buddy.

I see the same things you see, RW mostly holding back and Today focusing on drealmer. But I disagree with your conclusion. Holding back, not committing too much and then focusing on the most most non-controversial target could all be scum play. (With non-controversial I mean that suspecting drealmer, if he is town, is safe. No one, apart from drealmer himself, will disagree that he appears scummy)

About the back and forth between HSL and adalia: I disagree with adalia that finding drealmers scum partner would be easy. He can be scum with anyone except HSL. So lynching drealmer, although I still find him scummy, would only be the fall-back solution at the moment.

Can't be that 'apparent' to anyone but you, since you are a possible scum candidate for all others. Don't forget that. So 'gogtrial is almost certainly scum' is a statement I don't agree with.

So, in conclusion, more 'not much' from RW and some arguments back and forth. trent citing RW as his top-town choice looks very strange and would put trent in the suspicion pool - if he could be scum with RW, which he can't. At the moment I find myself agreeing with HSLs reasoning and I move RW past adalia and drealmer to my top spot.

But now here's my problem. If I vote RW, I'll put him at L-1. If I'm wrong, I open up the possibility for scum to hammer. Especially to adalia, who has positionend himself quite nicely for that. He made it clear that he is willing to lynch RW - but stated at the same time that he doubts RW is the best target. Could be an attempt at being able to hammer and still say 'I told you so' the next Day. But it could as well be distancing to a scum pal plus pushing in another direction (drealmer). If these two are a scum pair, adalia probably won't hammer RW. That's really a WIFOMed up situation.
At some point someone will have to bring his suspect to L-1. Usual play around here would be to wait until the deadline is visible and then act suddenly. Which might not be the best play. But risking to cut the Day short might also not be the best play.

Let's see.
Case 1: adalia+RW are scum. I bring RW to L-1. then adalia will have to choose to bus his scum-buddy and play alone against us tomorrow. Or not to bus RW and look bad for it, when someone else hammers.

Case 2: RW scum, adalia town. No problem here. adalia announced he'd vote RW, no reason not to.

Case 3: RW town, adalia scum. adalia would probably be tempted to hammer, but will wait so as to not seem too eager.

Case 4: RW town, adalia town ... basically like case 2, but we'll be in a bad position.

Damn. It all boils down to: how sure am I that RW is scum (with homever). I'll go back and see what I find in interactions between him and other possible scum partners besides adalia.

Meanwhile a question to HSL: you were the one to bring the argument that lynching RW is better than lynching adalia. However, you're not voting (neither am I, I know, and you're Mr. Reluctant Voter). So, would you be willing to lynch RW? Would he be your top lynch choice or who is that and why? You ask this question of others, so I think it's time that you answer it yourself.

I'm out working all day today (sorry, should have said yesterday) and won't be around properly for another 8 hours (if even then, depends how tired I am later)

@Lift
I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't with RW. If I vote him and he flips town I'll look like the scum hammer, if I vote him and he flips scum I'll look like I bussed him. If I don't vote him I'll look like scum either way too.

Thing is, RW's only likely buddy is me and I know I'm not. So perhaps I am the better lynch first as it rules out a larger unknown (not sure how you'll all feel about RW as scum when I flip town)

Really not sure how to proceed with this, it feels a lot like CSPVG's game (the pick your role one) but with more unknowns...

Managed to grab a moment before we start (and it may not be very busy, probably won't be able to use my phone once we're open though)

Actually, I've had a think about it and I'm not willing to vote RWarehall, my top 3 scum picks are either voting him or expressing an interest in voting him. If he flips scum then mislynching me tomorrow won't be the end of the world. But right now I don't see any of them bussing him as his buddies.

And you can all make of that what you like.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. RW has fooled ne several times in the past and how he's playing now is not how he's played as scum RW going for what he considers an easy lynch, I see it as town RW truly thinking drealmer is scum. It seems I'm in the minority thinking RW is town, and if he is scum then I'll tip my hat to him for fooling me again.

My schedule for today changed rather unexpectedly, have to be out the door in 20min, so don't have time to go over and comment/reply to the recent posts, but expect to be back later (my) tonight to do so.

Before I go, a question for trentonlf and two for adaliabooks.


@trentonlf - who would you vote between adaliabooks and Lifthrasil, and why?

@adaliabooks:

1. Could you lay out, in detail, what exactly makes gogtrial34987 scum for you?
2. Who are those top 3 scum picks of yours voting or willing to vote RWarehall? drealmer7 and gogtrial34987 make two. Who's the third? Since you've put Lifthrasil and me into the town pile, that leaves only trentonlf, and he's town-reading RWarehall, plus his vote isn't even necessary to achieve lynch (though that's not what you referred to).

At this point I would have no issue voting either because as I said it almost feels like they are a scum team.