Ok... What the hell?

I'm somewhat surprised, but not too much, that Hunter was town... but why the hell did scum kill JMich?
Gamma was a prime target day 1 and JMich a complete unknown... seems a VERY odd choice for the NK.

I understand (rightly so) that I'm going to get a lot of heat with Hunter flipping town, as should RWarehall and trent (Hyper and Lift too, but they were less instrumental in pushing the wagon) but I don't really know where that NK leaves us...
Gamma and Hunter were both town, the only logical reason to kill Gamma would be to possibly frame someone who suspected him Day 1 (Lift and RWarehall seem the top candidates for that if I remember correctly) or possibly to WIFOM frame me ("Look Gamma was town, I was right all along" yada yada) but both those seem pretty poor reasons to remove an unknown player considering me and RWarehall are going to be very much in the spot light today anyway...

Obviously I know I am town so my top scum pick is trent or RWarehall (though I don't rule out the possibility that scum completely ignored the wagon either) but I had a reasonably good feeling about both of them towards the end of Day 1 (despite my early suspicions of trent)

You ignorant barbarians!!! My beloved Mr. Kidd was a good man! I knew it! You tried to convince me that he hadn't changed his ways, but we were reforming our ways together, aiming for a new life of normalcy and peace and love! I KNEW he was a good man, in my heart, and our hearts are close, forever! YOU'VE TAKEN OUR LIVES TOGETHER FROM US!!! *cries*

I will find you treacherous villains and destroy you!!!

"... but why the hell did scum kill JMich? ... seems a VERY odd choice for the NK"

Really, adaliabooks? Is it really all that puzzling?

Let's see:

1. Every NK confirms a townie; there's no way around that, and the less we get out of the NK-ed player the better fro scum.
2. GammaEmerald may have been a prime target D1, but JMich would not be a walk in the park to mislynch, and we all knew it. Except perhaps for gogtrial34987.
Taking him out before he got a chance to say anything, interact with anyone, be questioned by anyone on anything, prevented him from turning opinions around, and left us with the mess GammaEmerald left behind and nothing to work with.
3. JMich is anything but an unknown player to everyone of us, with the exception of perhaps gogtrial34987 again.
4. JMich is considered by everyone an analytical player with a strong mid/end game.

So, I ask you again, adaliabooks - really?


Now, let's see how long it's going to take certain (couple) of players to point a finger in my direction for my comment: in my post #332.



Looks like it wasn't working all that well for him though - he did try to take out Bond. ;-P

Is there something between Kidd and whatever character you are playing?

@adalia, if you are not really surprised Hunter flipped town why were you saying yesterday he was the right lynch and you had him leaning scum? I was really surprised Hunter flipped town with how he was reacting to pressure on him. He apologized later for his reactions and said would post more later and then nothing. It all screamed scum being caught, and the fact that he flipped town was a big surprise I would say.

@gogtrial, your end of the day push (a weak push at that) to try and save Hunter really feels like you were setting yourself up to gain town cred when Hunter flipped town, I don't like it.

@Hyper
I still say it's a weird choice. Optimum play for scum is to NK the towniest player, that gives us the least info if we all already thought the person was town anyway. Removing a known scum suspect, no matter how good a player they are, just seems odd to me.
Why reduce the pool of potential lynch targets?

@trent
Because it was day 1. I would have loved to get scum day 1, but it felt a little too easy... I had my doubts right before the end, but it was too late to try and change targets by then anyway. And really Hunter's lynch was as good as any.
I particularly got a bad feeling from RWarehall's vote and gogtrial's last few posts.
RWarehall's vote with no info or explanation felt like a scum quick hammer, the kind usually reserved for the game winning lynch. Admittedly there wasn't a lot that needed saying and RWarehall joining the wagon wasn't exactly a surprise considering he was instrumental in causing the push on Hunter, but it still gave me a bad feeling.

@Hyper
Would you update and repost the Matrix?

yep, Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd are a couple (in Diamonds are Forever - it is the best bond movie you should definitely watch it!)

soo...mafia...scum and things of alignment indications and motivations and such

really I'd be down for killing any of you at this point... is that bad? I dunno, but, really, build a wagon that isn't me and I'm there~

ohyeah, I think it likely that scum thought it likely that lynching JMich would be hard

coming in as a replacement + him being able to likely explain his view on the game + actually being towny = ya, I don't think he was actually very likely to get lynched any time soon, makes sense as a NK

poor JMich ):

Given that Gamma also ended up town, my suspicion of adalia has been reduced a lot, since it was the early buddying back and forth which mostly triggered me. (The change of behaviour does remain as something to keep in mind.)

I understand that. Reality is that I was pretty conflicted about Hunter. I've watched him a lot over the last few games, and constantly read him wrong (even my correct suspicion in smurfia was based on what in hindsight was the wrong foundation). Here, I got a strong town read relatively early on (based on his joking), but marked it with an asterisk based on my history of reading him, and then he "lost his cool" (which can happen to a town player), and never came back to explain his thoughts (which is horrible for town; pretty disappointed in hunter there), so he had very swiftly moved to the top of the scum pile. I hadn't yet gone back to carefully check up on it all, though, so was operating on gut feeling more than analysis. Gamma I was pretty certain about as our best bet, while Hunter certainly seemed a worthy lynch-candidate, but was for me relatively unanalyzed; and then lift switched to Hunter before I could make a case for Gamma (or reach the conclusion that Hunter was our best bet - which I could totally imagine being the outcome), and events outpaced me.

To me, 2 hours to deadline still felt like plenty of time for careful rereading and weighing of options. I'd already indicated that I would be around to make certain we didn't end up in no-lynch, and the way I remember Smurfia, it only reached L-1 very shortly before D1 deadline (going back, it seems that was more like an hour, so my memory about that wasn't the best) - which I guess kinda steered me wrong with what to expect at day's end. (Don't treat me like a newbie - I believe I'm better than that - but do keep in mind this is only my second regular mafia game (I also played 1 night, but that had very different mechanics), so might not be prepared for every situation.)

Could you try to express more precisely what about my last few posts gave you that bad feeling?

Are you saying that you had actually expected this NK, or just that in hindsight it makes sense? If the latter, who did you most expect to be the target, and why?

(FWIW, I would certainly have been pushing Gamma/JMich as our lynch-target now, so I definitely didn't expect this NK either. (And true, I only know JMich from reputation - he was very terse in Smurfia D1, didn't post at all during the very short D2, and was killed N2.))

the real question is: who do I want dead MORE?!

you all make it so hard

Well it's tempered slightly by Hunter flipping town, as it really seemed like you were making a last ditch attempt to swap the lynch to Gamma and save Hunter.
Basically you seemed to be trying to derail the lynch, without actually feeling that Hunter was town (which looked like you were hedging your bets in case we did lynch him so you didn't come out too scummy) and then the 'if I'm NK'd' post always gives me pause.
But I suppose NKing Gamma doesn't really make sense in that context either, as presumably if you were scum you would be leaving him / JMich alive to push the lynch today.
As it is both the person you seemed to be saving and the one you wanted to lynch flipped town... which is a bit odd.

There's no reason to rush the lynch today (as we really need to be getting at least a little bit warmer today even if we don't actually hit scum) but I'm starting to think that drealmer really was the right choice day 1.
His day 2 let's kill anyone behaviour seems a bit out of character for him, and I could possibly see him killing off Gamma for town cred (since he defended him, though the same could of course be said for me)

mmm, no, I'm often up for a killing whole handfuls of you, adalia

this handful just happens to be a bit bigger this time, a 6-fingered handful !

Nice shade...
I guess you missed the part where I tried to "invite" Gamma to something. Not my fault that everyone decided to do their due diligence and wait until I was at work.

Sorry, I'm not going to write long explanations from my phone. In fact, I would have liked to push the Gamma vote over Hunter's (and been wrong), but given the fact I was at work, I couldn't get into a thing over it and really couldn't guarantee I could get back to check-in before deadline. Lesson to be learned, if one has a preferential lynch candidate, present your views and opinions early. Turns out there were 3 of us who preferred Gamma...now, why scum resolved that for us is baffling to say the least...given the way replacements have pretty much only been scum lately, a JMich mislynch would have been easy as pie.

I stand by my statement. It's been a repeating pattern for inexperienced players to get heat and then no-show as scum. I think you are a bad judge of "horrible"...

Gamma/JMich was going to be one of my top suspects today and I think very likely would have been mislynched and nothing JMich could say would have prevented it.

and again, I stand by statement

that "logic" is horrible, through and through

anyway

I think top lynch candidates are probably trent+RW

followed by Lift

followed by gogtrial+adalia

followed by HSL

but the fluidity of that is all over the place so...yeh

two of you all are scum, that is for sure!