And poor answers is another reason not to answer questions. As you say, you ended up being more suspicious of both of us (I can't speak for Gamma, but I am actually town and the end of the game [or day] will show that), so we indeed would have been better off without me answering the question.

Maybe for trent these days... not for the trent of old.
Hunter I get he is a man of few words, doesn't make me any less suspicious of him. Reminds me of the old guard who unfortunately aren't around any more. They all used to play like that, few words, most of which don't make much sense or add anything.

The more I talk the more you can get a read on me. Hopefully it will be the right read, though at the moment it doesn't actually look like it. I could just clam up and post a random couple of sentences once a day, but that wouldn't actually help town at all, and that is my goal whatever you all may be thinking.

Please point out to me exactly where I said providing picks was bad. I said I agreed with dreamer that it could cause too much WIFOM (post 12 where I said for the most part), and in the same post I said I also saw the benefit of sharing as it could reveal who is lying down the road. I then said if anyone wanted to reveal their picks go right ahead, I don't think it will have a major impact on the game either way. (Again in post 12).

And this was after your post (post 9) saying it might get you lynched for suggesting it, but hey should we share picks?

It then proceeds with Gogtrial being for it, Hyper being for it and wanting those most reluctant to reveal first, and RW being for it. Gamma was not for it or wanting only partial picks, so I took the initiative in post 26 and revealed to move the whole process along.

I even addressed Hyper's question as to what I meant for the most part in post 24, and in no part of all this did I ever state or imply that revealing picks was a bad idea so please stop trying to twist it that way.

So here's the post in question. You agree with drealmer (more on that later) but can see the benefit.
We should reveal our picks if we want (indicating you don't really want to or agree that we should)
But you don't think it will have a major impact on the game. Down playing the value of the picks, despite the fact that they are literally our only bonus this game as we have no PRs.

And on to the post of drealmer's that you agree with:

First question indicates there was some kind of problem with revealing picks in the original version of this game (that's how I read it anyway)

Again, casually down playing the value of the picks. Thinks sharing them is a slippery slope (to something as yet undetermined but it sounds bad right?)

Plus scum are totally going to mess with us right?
They've got loads of leeway to mess with us and win the game.
And even if it's all truthful how much good will it do?
Better not to bother really.

At least that's how I read it. And considering the back lash drealmer got for that I can't be the only one who read it like that.

So maybe there's no "Don't share picks! Sharing picks is bad!" because of course that would look odd and scummy. So do it in a more subtle way. "Yeah, you can share the picks if you want, but is it really worth bothering?", "I agree, what good will the picks do anyway?"


And you know, I'm done for now. I feel like I'm the only one doing any work, and it's not even particularly good.

Here's where I stand, I think one or both of trent and drealmer are scum. There's only one player (with a second almost there) that I wouldn't consider voting. I'm not going to say who they are, we all know why that's a bad idea. Anyone else I think is fair game for day 1.

Either my arguments and reasoning have convinced you or they haven't. I'm giving the floor to someone else because I'm tired of the sound of my own voice (or whatever the keyboard / forum equivalent of that is).

Are you trying to misrepresent me on purpose? Did you actually read any of my posts or are you just skimming the thread and trying to make it up as you go along?

adalia do you not read my messages? holy crap

@adalia: Well I just used picks to inform myself on of my townreads was wrong, so there's some use. Also, answer the fucking questions they ask you. There's always a reason.

Hyper and trent, what do you think of Lift right now?

Resuming where I left off earlier.


Regarding dealmer7 - I really hoped/thought it was issues in the physical world that were messing with him, but turns out that's not the case after all. Which does put him in a bad light.

What amazes me is that he thinks it's kosher to return to the game with a "nope, no issues in the physical world getting in the way just sleeping and doing other things", including posting in the "What is this movie" thread, and screaming he's BARELY been inactive, after being absent for three straight days and getting prodded by the mod. As if the latter two mean nothing. Because he's drealmer7.

What's equally amazing, if not more, is that he'd have been all over anyone else doing this, but hey, it's him doing it so it's fine, and whoever thinks it's not is just misunderstanding and misrepresenting him. Once again, and as usual. And because everyone having an issue with this is just after to get him, he acts frustrated and asks the matter to be dropped.


And you've been proven wrong every single time. Yet, it never crossed your mind that you may have to re-evaluate the way you're coming into a game with me. But I'm wasting my time. Apparently all the discussion that took place after game #40 taught you nothing; pity.


With a scum-motive, no doubt, eh?


People ping you as scummy for a lot less than what we've seen from GammaEmerald, yet you give him a pass, if not town-read him.

Since GammaEmerald and you can't be scum together, I can't help but wonder how much of your suspicion of RWarehall regarding GammaEmerald has to do with his read on him clashing with your own.



You did mean it the way I felt was the more likely one. Do you think that threatening people will actually get them to back off?


You say that Hunter65536 is null, yet you include him among your scum-suspects? Do I read that wrongly?


Heh. Pretty rich coming from you.



Getting to the rest now.

uhh, nope, again, doesn't seem like you're reading what I wrote or that you're just looking for a reason to try and make me look bad because you fail to undrestand

HSL, I swear you don't actually try to understand other ppl's perspectives almost ever

No reason to drop an F-bomb, let's keep the game civil.

As for Lift I have him as neutral for now, he is playing as he always does town or scum.

seriously, HSL< READ WHAT I FRKKEN WROTE, WOULD YOU???

"drealmer says this but, NOOOO, I'm going to ignore the words and make it mean this"

over and over and over and over

Even though you put a smiley at the end, I'll comment on this - I don't think my question was pointless, only reason I left it out is that I don't see a point in trying to discuss/argue about it with you, plus I made the point I wanted just fine without it.


Emm... no, and, frankly, I'm quite surprised you strike everything off as null, more so by using a rather extreme example. Views and reads on players are based on what people post, and how they interact with others. Those views and reads are being constantly evaluated, and re-evaluated when alignment is made known. Whether one is simply wrong or lying does matter, and you know it. Trying to make it as if it doesn't keeps my eyebrow raised.


While this can be an issue, it also serves, or at least can serve, the purpose of re-reading someone from a different perspective than their own, evaluate that as well, and get the questions and discussion going.
If we all just sat behind "I'm not going to say anything, because people may have a bias or it may sway them one way or the other", we'd not be interacting or posting at all, then at deadline just cast a vote accompanied by "because... reasons".

And I don't quite get why you're suddenly taking issue with trying to sway others. Isn't that part of the purpose of the game? To make others see the reasons you scum or town read people, as part of meeting the win-condition of your alignment?

Could it be because you're getting frustrated with your arguments against trentonlf not swaying enough people quickly enough?


[emphasis added]

I do get why tretnonlf, and drealmer7, were concerned about the WIFOM created by the reveal of picks, I just didn't/don't agree that WIFOM is something we haven't faced before, hence was and am of the opinion we shouldn't let it dictate how we proceed.

What I want to point out more are the two things I've highlighted in your posts.

You seem to be reading his post as him having said:

"I oppose to revealing the picks ever during the game, period"

and

"I don't think it will have a major impact on the game either way, at any point of the game, period".

I didn't and still don't read it that way. He seemed concerned about doing it from the get go, and that's why I asked him to clarify, but that doing it wouldn't have much of an impact on the game at that point. At least that's how I read his post(s), and if you read them like this, I don't think that things look as bad as you see them.

Now, you can argue that the motive of going first with his picks differs depending on his alignment, I will give you that. So, the question becomes - does the rest of his posts and interactions indicate he did it with a town-motive or with a scum-one?

Yes and no.

He's pretty shit under constant heat. But also pretty good at getting his composure back when he gets even a small break.
At least that's how he used to be, as coming to answer your question, I checked back, and realised that both him and me returned to playing a regular mafia game after almost a year.

I'm trying to keep the pressure on him, but unfortunately our active hours don't coincide much this game, and no-one else steps in to take over when I'm away (where's yogsloth when you need him? *sigh*). So, it's hard to make it work, and he knows it. Plus, I'm not ruling out that in the time that passed since his last mafia game, he may have learned to adjust better and quicker. And then, there's also day-chat.

As for struggling to maintain the right level of interaction with his scum-buddies, while the part of over-defending them, or playing "dumb" and not seeing what's scummy about them is true in general, that is also subject to how fast and with what force they get under fire, and if he gets a chance for a breather. If he gets it, he usually tries to stir attention onto someone else. On top of all else this game, scum have day-chat, so that plays a huge role in how scum-adaliabooks may temper his behaviour towards his buddy.


While it would seem so, may I remind you of the game where you tripped yourself into acting based on "surely, things are more complicated than this"? Not saying that this is necessarily one such case, just that sometimes things are just like they seem, and, at this point, we don't really have reasons to rule some things out.

As for the second part of your post - asides from GammaEmerald being an unknown player, so who knows, that argument alone is enough for a pretty good WIFOM, isn't it? Don't forget that it was adaliabooks himself that suggested that scum may do something so obviously scummy that everyone would think it can't be.



I don't think I've seen him be so aware of this tunnelling issue before, let alone this constant reminder of his determination and efforts to self-correct. Feels a bit odd.

I also don't recall, and am a bit too lazy to go check, so can anyone say if it's typical of him to do reads on D1, and quite thorough ones at that?