Is there an error here? Don't you mean Hunter was the first?


I don't feel like voting for him but anyone who is neutral or worse is a fair game for me. The idea of no-lynching doesn't excite me so yes, if the deadline is about to hit and Lift is one vote short I'm pretty sure I'll provide it depending on his claim and other contextual elements.


Analyzing non-wagon happens mostly on scum-flips so early on.


After the game sounds real helpful!


Huh? You disagreeing with something automatically bans any following actions in that direction? Do I need run my decision on whom I'll vote for by you before doing so?


I'm preeetty sure that's a dildo.


So, what I don't like about Hunter:

At first he wasn't too involved with the game. He did take part in various dialogues but almost none of them brought anything of value to the actual goal. As of latest it becomes apparent that he is capable of participating more but that was unlocked by the heat he started getting on D2. It's quite normal for one to become stronger and push back harder when they are defending themselves but still, why wait to be cornered (this is a bit of an overstatement since Hunter is not THAT pressured) to start carrying some weight?

Hunter was the first to vote for drealmer and stayed on that wagon to the very end. The whole vote was closer to RVS at this point since the main reasoning was flimsy at best and drealmer's rants were still picking up speed. Even though I still think drealmer's wagon wasn't baseless I don't really understand leaving an such vote out there on an active wagon that gradually builds up without saying anything more about it.

In #247 the vote for Leonard came of out nowhere with practically no reasoning behind it - just piggy-backing on Trent's "pressure" vote. I can't speak for others but I'm not a fan of RVS votes on D2.

#264 is the first post where Hunter started to produce more content. Coincidentally that was the post he started to defend himself.

He provided inaccurate information that he wasn't the first to bring the disguised men topic. Not sure if that means anything but it's still something to note.

Some of the defense points were also practically useless. "It's an anime, not a movie"? "The anime doesn't even exist"? "Most people probably don't even watch anime"? (These are paraphrased, not actual quotes, but you get my point). What is this? Myanimelist.net? This felt more like deflecting than anything else.

There was also the good old "But he did this as well, how come you are yelling at me about it but not at him? It's not fair!!".

In #288 Hunter questioned the notion of why scum would defend non-scum. This may have been a genuine question of an unknowing new player but I still noted it since it was in the context of Dessimu's lamist wifom regarding drealmer.


That's about it.

In the current state of affairs I'll

vote Hunter

but I'm quite open to switching to Dessimu as well.

As for Lift, @bler (or others), I'm not strictly against lynching him but in my specific case it will be mostly to get some information in the process / from the flip rather than follow up on my reads. That's why I'll need some persuasion.

P.S. Shit! I forgot to wait for Leandra's approval... Am I in trouble now?

I spent time in checking HypersomniacLive to understand him and thus, I found he made no actual valid vote. As for CSPVG, I have not yet looked into him. But the way you presented his vote, I can only say it looks suspicious.

But I shall have a better idea once I look through his posts.

Good to know

Well, if I am lynched, Night killed, or killed by some way before I can/see fit to explain my eagerness on building case/-s, then yes - after the game. Pure logic. Nothing to be sarcastic about.

Lol - fair enough. I think the core issue is that we're viewing what the question 'was' different, but I don't think it's worth dissecting. 50% chance you're right, and 50% chance we're having entirely different conversations, and ergo both right. Moving on, indeed. ;)


1) On first read I wasn't entirely surprised - he could have been focused on hers since she went first. I am a bit curious he hasn't come back to it, whether to legitimately challenge, or just to cast shade on my own logic/motives. Could be scum-fatigue, perhaps. It's only been 2 game days since he was last on the mat under heavy pressure.

2) A ...fascinating question. You're much too smart to not not be town, right? I think I read that somewhere.

The setup to the question strikes me just a bit as very subtle fishing, intended or no. If I stumble into the question as written, or spin the opposite direction that clarifies something important for any scum who's paying close attention. Perhaps you can see why, esp. as you are 90% eyeball. At least at this point I'm neither confirming or denying your point as written.

To be clear, I think if Lift flips mafia, then that certainly tells town collectively that Flub is not mafia. What it tells me or any other individual town member, well, that may be different depending on what info each of us may have at our fingertips. Breadcrumb that.

What you appear to be proposing could similarly be resolved if town were to lynch dess, and dess were to flip mafia. So Lift is not magical in that regard. At heart it's as simple as, of the limited data on the table, and as I do not for a fact know any single player to be mafia, I am voting the player I find most likely to be mafia.

I won't deny that there's some added strategic benefit, in my view, to lynching a lurker (which I think he is this game), all else being equal, and that Lift's flip, if Mafia, gives "us" other useful information. Thus I view him as not only most likely, but with the highest upside/downside ratio.

If Lift is town, it's bad news, and I can detail why I think that's the case if you like. If he's neutral, well, who knows. Depends on precisely what and how it fits into the design.


-did refresh to see a few new posts but haven't read them.

Are you still looking in the mirror reciting your name backwards and forgetting to involve yourself in the discussions going on?

Of the current wagons I would vote for Lifthrasil and of course Hunter6060842.

I'm not inclined to vote for Dessimu.

Actually he wasn't, it was drealmer7 who brought it up in his post #113, and I quote [emphasis added]:

Right. His quote referred to the all-town game suggestion of drealmer which threw me off on this one.

Some good points in #360 regarding Lift by the way.

NOTE: This is the 3rd time I'm trying to post this in the last few minutes. GOG consistently says I failed and there aren't new posts, so if an edit happens I blame the forum software.

2) I know that's the case, but personally I think it's a mistake. If town is only going to look at half the field, it certainly tells scum where they should hide if possible. Like when I tell my daughter in hide and seek that I'm only going to search for her in the living room. Eventually she'll figure out to just hide in a diff. room.
3) lol
4) Good points. I'll try and work in a re-read.
5) lol
1&6) will respond to these in a bit - skyping with daughter atm

1&6) Ok, that didn't go well. Now where was I?

I like Lift as a viable suspect, but I don't think he needs to be the lynch enough to say "you must vote him!" I made my points and voted. There are at least potential alternative explanations for his play, though if we were allowed to bet, and I were a betting smurf, I might put down a ha'penny that my vote is in the right place. Not that smurfs have currency.

I know I'm in the minority (1 is a minority, right?), as usual, but I do think there's something to be said for serious consideration of no lynch. I tend to think town has more power than average, not least because of the SK and b/c this is a yogs game. I'm reminded that the last time yogs hosted we lynched vanilla on D1...1 of what, 2 vanilla? 'twas a simple looking facade on a much more formidable structure and patience/deliberation would have served us a bit better. At risk of saying "I told you so" no lynch would have been the right play D2 of that game as well.

A big part of what I've been trying to do is just force people to the table, seeing where the fingers point and votes fall. When I joined, there really wasn't much to work with. While conversation is picking up quite nicely, I do think the available data is still thin. This will likely be post 368 and we're about 24 hours from the deadline of D2. A lot of D1s run twice that.

And quite a few of those posts were focused on flavor. I also think it likely the SK out of the picture shifts the advantage to town, and I'm leery of spending that advantage, assuming it exists, on a hunch. A mislynch is doubly bad, not just for loss of the numbers advantage, and potentially represents loss of a role directly, but it also narrows the probability field for scum to hit other roles.

But...I know that's just me pissing in the wind and that people will insist we lynch somebody, anybody, over the alternative.

Rather than asking Lift to claim his role at this point (he is at L-2 I believe), though he can if he chooses, I would like him to explain how he views his own play so far, particularly in light of the questions raised. If he answers HSL's questions and not mine, that's fine too.

It was late at night, but the clock was ticking.

The Dean continued to work the phones, looking for new professors. Glancing up, she seemed to notice something:

"Hey, Dr. Rand," she said, "You have spoken a grand total of six times since we started. You haven't voted a single time, other than your RVS vote in the first few minutes. The timer on your last post just passed the magical "2 days ago" mark."

She reached into her brassiere and removed a .357 magnum revolver.

Pointing it at CSPVG, she said "You have approximately twelve hours to contribute in a meaningful, positive way."

The group once again grew silent.

But not as silent as Dr. Rand, who continued to stare blankly into space...

@dedo I wasn't the first to bring up that men topic, its quite funny you'd have to resort to lies even to justify voting for me. I posted the source before and even Leonard03 posted the source. About the corrections, yeah they were minornbut if I allowed them to keep twisting it at one point it might lead to people like yourself thinking I made up that entire discussion.

Dedoporno = Liar/10 check post 113 before lying again plz

Re-read Hunter. IDK.

His contributions are thin. A few of these critiques seem thin to me, however, as well.

I'm not a fan of the "Hey, I'm pressuring you!" vote, because if it's done without a reason it's at least borderline scummy, and if it's done quite that explicitly it's all but useless anyway. Though I am probably guilty of having done it at some point, and it can be either a scummy scum move, or just a lazy town move.

The 2xxxforMe meme is also a bit overdone, and while he employed it in RVS, even post-RVS I do think he's employed it in a way that's distracting from his actual argument. Not a fan of that.

But I find the "who talked about men first" thing to be the biggest distraction going, though seemingly I'm in the minority on that since everyone wants to establish who said what when first. It strikes me a bit of my mini-tiff with HSL over whether he responded to me on multiple points or not. You have to dissect it down so far to determine the truth that it becomes meaningless.**

I do think it's interesting that the two players I could be construed as "defending" are flub and Hunter, and flub is voting for Hunter.

Any particular reason you wouldn't vote Dess? Him flipping mafia would be a boon for you in particular, after all.

I'm not honestly expecting a deep answer, but felt obligated to ask.


**Which reminds me of a joke apropos to our setting. A high school students learns a little bit about everything; a college student learns a lot about a few things, and a PhD learns everything there is to know about absolutely nothing.

@bler About that pressure vote I did that because I felt Trent had some info on Leonard he wasn't sure he could share with the rest. If you see his reply to dessimu I felt he was trying to point us in direction of Leonard followed by his voting for Leonard. Also I found Leonard's reaction a bit wieird after n1. Seeing as to how dessimu had Leonard as suspicious in d1 too I felt there must be something there. Also I'm the professor of memetic aka humanities, hence the meme votes.

About dedo lying while making a case against me, is there not a principle that you should lynch all liars.

Unvote Leonard03
Vote dedoporno

Heh. There are some LAL advocates, and a cohort who thinks it's often lazy crap.

Perhaps you can guess which camp I'm in?

Within limits, of course. If you said "I'm a serial killer" in one post and then came back with "Just kidding!" in the next, then sure, I might invoke LAL. If the cupboard was bare, then sure, an LAL vote is better than nothing...maybe.

Lying is best done with extreme care, if one is town, and better to avoid lying outright if a suitable alternative exists, even on minor points. In any case, this seems like a case of a misunderstanding or at worst nitpicking to me about a day that started with bupkis on the table.

You'd have to actually pay me money (and none of those devalued Canadian loonies) to make me go back and read who said what about it. Was HSL making a joke or trying to paint you in a bad light he's backed off of? Is dedo misunderstanding (or are you?) or trying to pain you in a bad light?

I have no idea. I'm skeptical the text will offer any clarity at this point sufficient to form the basis of a D2 vote, and as noted, I find it more of a distraction that of value at the moment. Pushing dedo on LAL for it, frankly at the moment raises my curiosity on you far more than interest in him. I'm giving you some grace since it seems like a valid newb question.

Though others will disagree. We each get an opinion.


Now, if Lift is lynched flips scum, lots of things change, and I already feel quite comfortable with the list of 2-3 people I'd be looking closely at as a follow. A significant 'if' certainly.


Anyway, sooooo....Hunter, what do you think of Dess?