I’m dead tired, and unfortunately have another round of the same tomorrow, bleh; the weekend can’t come soon enough.
Note that I’m not really up to speed on the game-thread, as I want to get my impressions and thoughts on cristigale and Lifthrasil out, so am going to spend my time doing my re-reads on them (thankfully, there isn’t all that much to re-read, as it turns out), and putting my post(s) together.

And it is especially suspicious if the one doing it poits out how towny his behaviour is. "Would I have done this if I were scum?" is the very definition of LAMIST.

And as Hunter pointed out, Dessimu's accusation of HSL's alleged pressuring and wagon pushing was actually unjustified.

All in all Dessimu's 'analysis' reeks of grasping for straws and over-zealousity.

Therefore:
unvote Hunter
vote Dessimu

I still see Hunter as scummy for the above mentioned reasons, but Dessimu just took the top spot. But if it should become necessary to prevent a mis-lynch, I'll switch back to Hunter.

@cristi @trentonlf Thanks for sharing your opinions, I will probably settle for a vote once I've gone through everything again

@bler Hehe, actually I felt it was better to get it across rather than have people think I was lurking. Heck, in my first game I was afraid I might get lynched while sleeping so I'd say that's progress. :P

This is something for me to ponder. As to why and how. And you might be right.

Yeah... I kind of overdid it with saying HypersomniacLive pushed your wagon. It is indeed in no way similar to how HSL questioned drealmer. For the moment when I was writing my opinion on HSL, I felt like the talking about men dressed as women was taking too much attention and eventually I amplified any talking on this subject.

It would also help, if you confirmed or denied my interpretation of your mention of that "anime related scenario".

And I see them in a sly way. As in, if HSL is town, then comments are not serious. If HSL is scum, then it is a good way to cast a little suspicion on Hunter.

In other words, we have sort of same feeling about Lift here. For I don't like his third reason, but I did not completely discard the first two as well.

Ok... Who do we know to be a man-dressed-as-woman? Krypsyn. Who was Krypsyn? A serial killer. Now... "Lift is using Hunter’s comments about all-men as part of his vote" which in other words, implies that Hunter either is a man like Krypsyn or that Hunter has some info. If Lifthrasil is implying that Hunter is a man, it would be the same as saying "Hunter could be a SK, like Krypsyn was".

Because I don't see Hunter's comment on dressed-men as some sort of slip, I don't think Hunter to be a SK. Scum? Maybe.

And... By expressing my opinion on how Lifthrasil is wrong with his third reason, I am indeed contributing a little to shifting attention and discussion from scum onto serial killers. It is something that happens unintentionally, having entirely different goal in mind (goal to hunt scum). And I also might be doing now what drealmer did - making too big fuss out of not so big of a detail. So I will shut up now.

This is intentional and I shall hold my reason as to why. I will explain either later in the game or after the game.

No. No no no. No! Na-a. (all those no's are for no particular reason) First off, if HSL was scum or town, he would have no idea as to what exactly Krypsyn is (considering Krypsyn is not scum with HSL). And I do not think there to be multiple serial killers working together.

I won't get into detail now, but I think Night 2 will provide a better picture of who we are dealing with. Until then, it's more logical to think we have 2-3 scum left to hunt.

I am. Sorry that it puts you off.

Even though I just pointed out one of those reasons was wrong? This seems a little (as in, a lot) like jumping from one wagon that stalled to try and start another. And did nothing ever come of
?

Are you a bad guy again Lifthrasil?

I think so.
Vote: Lifthrasil

OK then, let’s start with cristigale.

She made about a dozen posts during D1, two (2) of them after the lynch-post that netted her some hard zapping with the good old fashion cattle prod (ouch!), and about the same amount during D2 – if nth else, she’s consistent.

Most of her posts during D1 fall under RVS joking/voting and RP-ing, something that may or many not be telling since there was a lot of that going on (see dedoporno’s post #311 on the matter); seeing how flavour rich and fun (because of it) yogsloth’s games are, I can see how people can get into it more easily (I’m guilty of it myself to some extend). But I’ve also noticed that she did not use RP-ing when she made her game-related comments.

I’m not sure she was lurking more than usual - generally, she doesn’t post often, which has served her well in the past as scum. I’d have to go back a few games and check (sorry, don’t have the energy to do so right now), but even that would not be any sort of “evidence”, as she might have simply altered/refined her ways as to not be trapped within her “scum meta”.

She engaged drealmer7 only once (post #145); if she was satisfied by drealmer7’s reply is unclear as she never got back to that. I can only assume that she was, as she spoke of only one (different) thing seeming scummy to her about drealmer7 (post #188). Not sure I’d call that a “circumspect note”, as bler144 puts it, as I think I’ve seen her make such comments with either alignment.
In that same post she expressed her intend to vote drealmer7 to avoid No-Lynch. Something a number of players usually do, as No-Lynch on D1 is regarded as a big fat “no no”, so it doesn’t carry much weight in and of itself.
According to GOG’s joke-of-a-time-stamp system, that was one day before the D1 deadline expired.

Her next post (#223) stating that she’d vote-hammer drealmer7 comes after the lynch-post. Was she aware that Lynch had been achieved when she made that post? She said she wasn’t, but was she sincere about it? Was she online earlier but avoided to vote? Was it all calculated just to gain town-credit while staying off of drealmer7’s wagon? Again, with GOG’s unreliable time-stamp system, it’s hard to say at this point, and quite easy for her to argue otherwise. It does seem suspicious, but also too obvious. But then again, having us think the latter might have been part of her plan if she’s Mafia. Either way, it certainly is something to keep in mind, as she’s generally not shy to cast a vote, even as scum (Mafia or third-party).

Her D2 posts are certainly more game-oriented, and she expressed thoughts on a few players. I’m not sure if bler144 is saying that the norm for town-her would be to apply more pressure to the players that got her attention in some way; I don’t think I’ve ever seen her being even slightly aggressive in her reads, regardless of alignment. She also is a smart player, so her read on Lifthrasil being Mafia-bait or general-gauging for reactions can’t be ruled out.
Having said that, I’m the first to acknowledge that her way is quite effective for “pushing” for townies without being (too) obvious about it when she’s scum; I’ve witnessed it quite a few times.

Overall, I get a bit of a “here, I’ll be helpful” feeling from her reads, and, as with flubbucket, it pings my scumdar a tad.

As I’ve said, I’m always wary of cristigale, and this game is no different. I get a couple of scummy vibes this game, but one thing could tip the scale one way more than the other. So far it's missing, and I’d rather not spell it out at this point, as I want to see how things go, and pointing it out might tip her off if she is scum. Even what I’ve said so far might do it, but at least it'll be to a lesser degree, or so I hope.


I'll finish up my reading on Lifthrasil, and post it shortly.

Assume no one has slipped. If someone does slip, well, then I believe the rules do quite allow you to change your vote at that time.

Dean, am i correct? May one change their vote during the day? Yes? Well, ok then.

Perhaps voting might create pressure (or overeagerness) that will create a slip moreso than stagnation. The theory of Plate Tectonics is a few decades away, but surely you can see that the nut cracker works more effectively than just waiting for decay to open the walnut shell long after the meat inside has gone rancid.

So with the information on the table, please, enlighten us. What is Leandra/Leonard's take on what we should do? You don't even have to actually vote (though that would be quite nice). What is your play? Who would you vote for knowing what you do know? Do you favor Hunter/Dess/Lift, or someone else entirely, whether as scum or as a tactical play?

Throwing our hands in the air and giving a collective shrug is about the least helpful course, wouldn't you agree? One could even make a case for no lynch as a tactical option. Would you make that case?

Just as you must assess others, we must assess you. At the moment your case might be construed as making no case at all. Heavens, woman. Carpe something, at least.

Dean Sloth didn't even look up from her newspaper. She simply lifted a middle finger and gently waved it at bler144.

"That's French for yes," she commented.

@Dessimu - You gave trouble to HSL for not making any real votes, what about CSPVG? He's only had one, which was RVS on Krypsyn.

Link

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated, thank you.


Ah, thank you. In German it means something else. If the offer is accepted, and performance is adequate, a 'thank you' might still follow though. Perhaps the French just skip all that.


On Leonard, I posted without refreshing. Quite funny that Leonard voted while I was typing. Ah well, no regrets.

Amusingly (to me), I spent about most of that time trying to figure out something funny to go with 'Carpe' and was failing entirely and ended up going with "something."

I'm out of the habit of refreshing before posting. Last real game I played was Lift's I think, which ended 3 months ago.

This response to you as case in point.

Will try to work on it, but not particularly worried about it either.

@Dessimu I only had the first association at the back of my mind, I wasn't thinking deep enough to have the other two.

Lifthrasil made a striking total of eight (8) posts on D1, and the even more impressive total of four (4) on D2, but at least all of D2’s posts are game-involved.

The degree of lurking seems quite unlike and excessive for Lifthrasil, given his belief and repeated statements that lurking is beneficial to scum and detrimental to town, and him being a firm proponent of lynching the lurkers in lack of better candidates.

All of his D1 posts, except one, were RP-ing, even the single one where he engaged drealmer7 (post #178) asking him to reveal his flavour-name and dislike. Of some interest is perhaps the fact that he prefaced this portion of his post with “but seriously” while staying in-character. It could perhaps have been that he was addressing drealmer7 who traditionally RPs, but seems a bit out of place given that:
- drealmer7 himself was not RP-ing after the discussion started heating up, IIRC;
- drealmer7 was at L-1 at that point, and Lifthrasil’s own phrasing indicates he was aware of the fact that drealmer7 was at L-1.

The only post he goes out of character is post #112, where he addresses, in a rather casual way, the topic of flavour-names and dislikes. He appears to think that it’s nth of consequence (willing to share his), so one question is why he did not partake in the discussion with drealmer7 who insisted, up to end, that it might be something more than flavour, and useful for scum-hunting.
Lidthrasil is the type who jumps on people and latches onto them, and quite aggressively at that, if he thinks their arguments don’t hold up (his pursue of Hunter65536 is no exception).

Now, if he didn’t find anything scum-worthy enough about drealmer7’s arguments, another question would be why he didn’t try to persuade people to get off his wagon, and I don’t mean when drealmer7 was at L-1, but when there was still time to try to shift things in a different direction. He said that he didn’t have anything more than his feeling about flubbucket, and didn’t think it enough to convince others. But he didn’t even try, which is quite unlike him.

The above combined feel like he wasn't actually scum-hunting, or even particularly involved in the game in general. He comes across more like a spectator who passively watched things unfold; also quite unlike him. Does this mean he’s Mafia? Not sure at this point, but his D1 behaviour, from the lurking and the indifference with which he approached things to his parked vote on flubbucket, was odd and out of place for the Lifthrasil I know.
This made me consider the possibility he might be a Survivor of some sort (would be funny if there was someone from a EBWOP/EBWODP or some such organisation) where staying out of the spotlight and any “cross-fire” is key to making it to end game.

And then we come to D2.

His very first post (#252), again in-character (but also the only one in D2), says he’ll go look at “who pushed too strongly on drealmer”. And comes back with Hunter65536, and votes him for four reasons. I don’t know about others, but he wouldn’t be my first choice if my criterion was what he stated.
Of all his reasons, only the first one (piggybacking on someone else’s pressure-vote with no context/arguments) seems legitimate enough to me, yet is also the only one he leaves out in his follow-up post, where he focuses on the ones I think don’t hold up.
Of those, the “voting drealmer7 for a thin reason” is pretty rich coming from Lifthrasil, of all people.
Regarding the “all-men” slip - I was the one that brought it up in my RP-ing joke-poke of Hunter65536, and I’m starting to feel a bit bad about it as others seem to make more out of it than it is.

So, while Lifthrasil’s tunnel-vision way and force with which he’s going after Hunter65536 (or at least was, as he switched his vote to Dessimu earlier, though in the exact same fashion) feels pretty consistent, he seems oddly deaf to others’ counter-arguments for voting Hunter65536. In fact, this “pop-in, make a short post, vote, pop-out” play he seems to favour, even more so on D2, seems quite odd overall. As if he’s trying a bit too hard to not cross paths much with others, while appearing more involved than he did D1.

And to this point, it’s unclear to me what about flubbucket it was that turned his initially not-serious vote to one he was comfortable to leave on him till the end of D1. What about flubbucket felt scummy enough in the course of the Day? I don’t think he explained this, at least not to my satisfaction. And while he replied to cristigale, and returned earlier to change his vote, why didn’t he address any of bler144’s valid points against him?

Overall, he acts quite unlike himself, what it means I’m not sure. I’d appreciate it if he’d stick around a bit longer, engage the rest of us in a meaningful way, and address the points that have been raised. As things stand, he’s leaving too many question-marks hanging over his head, and keeping my eyebrow raised.


I assume that bler144 is voting (and wanting to lynch?) Lifthrasil to get his reveal and see what his alignment can tell him about flubbucket, and by extension about Mafia.
What will it tell you, bler144, if Lifthrasil flips Town or third-party?


On a side note – could we, please, stop referring to SKs as “neutrals”? By definition, a SK is not neutral to any and all factions of a game, he’s out to get every single other player, and wins only if they’re the last man standing.



Oh, and just for the record:

Responding to you on other “points" (plural) is not how things went, hence it was not a factual observation. Moving on!