Sorry for disappearing everyone, I had a sudden client visit and almost no time to do anything outside of work. This is over now so I will catch up and do that long-due re-read of the wagon I promised. I'll be back in about 1-2 hours.

It wasn't initially. But eventually I left it there for lack of alternatives. I thought that flubbucket felt more scummy than the only alternative drealmer. But beyond the feeling that flubb is scummy I didn't have anything concrete that I could pursue to convince others. Still, as far as D1 votes go I thought that flubb was the better one than drealmer.


No joke. While you weren't exactly pushing, your vote still stood out as peculiar. First you jumped from vote to vote, then you settled on drealmer with a meagre reason. Going back through the posts that lead to your vote, it still looks strange. agent referred to the player instead of the role as 'he'. drealmer asked if he meant anything by that ... then you took this quite innocent question as a sign that he had additional info and based your vote on that. Which in turn might mean, that you knew that drealmer was (unknowingly) on to something with the presence of men in this game. I.e. it might mean that your role is actually a man, like the SK, and you reinforce this impression by your association that we all might be men. Which gets even less understandable if there wasn't an anime movie to reference, but was just some random post 'a while back'. Why did drealmers 'we might all be town' idea trigger a 'all girls are actually boys' reminiscence in you?

So. TL:DR version:
- you vote-jumped, giving only some sappy one-liners as reason
- you settled on drealmer on a contrieved reason
- your association of an 'all-men' game looks strange too.

conclusion: my vote is fine where it is now.

OK, things are not looking too good time-wise. I was interrupted four times already, have to get some things done for tomorrow, and just got confirmation that tomorrow is indeed going to be very busy.

Unfortunately this means I'm more or less at the exact same point I was a couple of hours ago. I’ve read through the recent posts, but would like to go through them more focused, before posting.


So, for now, a quick one:

Hahaha, perhaps it was a typo, or perhaps I was just intimating you're like tequila shots. ;-P

You have to tell me the story behind πεταλούδα and μαϊμού after the game. :-)


Pre-post refresh - I see more posting, I'll be back as soon as I can, sorry.

Indeed. A fair point of clarification. My hypothesis is there may be 0-1 'mafia' on drealmer's wagon IF one assumes flub is town. Krypsyn's flip pretty definitively proves there was 1 scum, but as I've moved on and am focused on mafia. I may occasionally use the words interchangeably. For the time being my presumption is that there are 3 scum left alive, and that all are mafia.

Anyway, with the only viable wagons being flub vs. drealmer in that scenario, scum have little to do on a short deadline other than make sure town lynches somebody, and the less they do to make it happen, the better the cover, at least by traditional thinking. I would've voted drealmer, personally, as he looked like a scummy version of himself, so frankly I don't put a lot of stock in the notion that we're going to diagnose the 'why' of anyone's vote for him. Normally his arguments are quite elaborate, but here they were often self-contradictory and shifting.

The 'when', on the other hand, is at least worth exploring, and I confess I haven't had a chance to dig into that carefully yet. Other than to say that cristi's non-vote vote caught my eye for precisely that reason. I'd rate it as being exactly as suspicious as Leonard's actual hammer.

The stakes are different for mafia if flub is mafia. In that scenario they not only (all but) have to push something through before deadline, but it has to be drealmer over the lone alternative, and one would expect to see scum pushing firmly for drealmer including actual votes.

In scenario 1 the best hunting is actually off the wagon, statistically speaking; in scenario 2 the best hunting is on the wagon, and flub would be the obvious place to start.

Now, one might read this and wonder why I'm not voting flub. If his alignment is key to analyzing D1, as I believe it is, why not lynch him for clarity? It's win-win, right? A fair question. Multiple reasons. I'll let you all mull on it for a bit.


Budget meeting was cancelled - my boss was fired suddenly. Still been a bit hectic figuring out what the new normal is going to look like.

Remember, when I said "HypersomniacLive is too smart to be town - he must be scum"? Well, that was sort of a serious thing.

I was looking through HSL's posts from beginning. Something I am interested in:



This was intended for trentonlf. My question is - is this "reminder" like an inside joke between you and trentonlf? If so, where does it come from? If not, then why did you yourself not ask dedoporno if he was scum?



This fits the killing of Krypsyn so well. I mean, flubbucket cares for her (flavor gender) hair, then HypersomniacLive mentions not wanting to put her (flavor gender) flawless alabaster skin at risk... As if they both were scum buddies, joking around about the murder weapon. If these things were said now, on Day 2, after the Night, when scum already had a chat in their scum chat, I would really think HSL and flubbucket to be dirty.



During the whole game you made only two votes and those were invalid:
And this is related to my biggest concern of all. Before the first Night, you have replied or asked something out of everyone, except Hunter, Lifthrasil and Krypsyn. You did not speak with those three at all. You are talkative and spend more time replying/talking to people directly than making observations in general. So if you were town, I would expect you to address every player at some point. Leaving these three out makes me think they all or two of 'em might be your scum buddies. Now that Krypsyn is dead, I think Hunter and Lifthrasil might be your scum buddies. Seems logical, no? You don't poke them, put pressure on townies, thus drawing less attention to the whole mafia group.

What about Krypsyn? Why did you not speak to him at all? If you are town, you did not have anything to say to him maybe? Though I would expect at least a joke. If you are scum however... Maybe you did not speak to Krypsyn intentionally? Knowing him to be a wild card, you chose not to poke Krypsyn, so he wouldn't start suspecting you or your scum buddies in case he was vanilla Town or even hold a Town power role.

You did, however, put pressure on drealmer, challenged his logic (most effort was put in post 119). Yet you never put a vote on him - instead you let others do the voting. It's like you stick with the crowd, but also hide in plain sight. You were not on drealmer's wagon, so people don't pay attention to you.

Speaking of attention, it seems like through the whole game NO ONE has challenged, poked or questioned you in serious way. Instead, you yourself question others - be it related to the flavor or to something that someone said. Your play style feels like "attack is the best defense".


What happens after Night 1? Within your first post () you mention glancing at Hunter suspiciously (note, that you did not speak to him on Day 1). And bring out his saying about "anime of dressed guys in all-girls school, where all are dressed guys". Did you ever consider that this saying is related to us, players? Majority of us being men in real life and pretending to be women in this game? And you yourself talk awfully lot about men. Starting from RVS jokes, ending with sort of serious questions like "Perhaps his killer was not a woman?" ([url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_37_murder_at_the_womens_institute/post255]post 255).



I just can't shake off the idea that you actually are scum, HypersomniacLive. And that Lifthrasil is your scum buddy. Short summary on why:
- you have not spoken to Lifthrasil since the beginning of the game, as if wanting to draw no attention between you two
- you have challenged drealmer pretty hard, yet did not vote him, nor have you said why you do not vote him or anyone else
- now you are questioning Hunter almost same way as you did drealmer, yet you do not vote Hunter. And you keep on painting Hunter as (flavor wise) a man, who infiltrated our Institute. Even though we should hunt LAMIST ladies and not some creeps with fake breasts. You are consciously drawing attention away from LAMIST to OMGUS (organizations).
- you have not placed a single valid vote during entire game

Possible reason as to why:
- for the moment you and Lifthrasil suit my idea of you both being scum buddies, because you both are moving Hunter's wagon

In case you are scum, it seems logical, that:
- you did not speak to Krypsyn at all to not draw attention to yourself and then you eliminated Krypsyn to be safe

Unvote flubbucket
Vote HypersomniacLive

Interesting. Do go on.

It's a tradition and shows up in almost every game where both Trent and dedo are on the field. I agree it feels a bit forced at this point. Imo the breaking point for said tradition was probably the all-scum game where Trent and dedo were on the same team and they went through the routine anyway.

While worth looking at with fresh eyes, I wouldn't spend too much energy on this one. Everyone involved in that exchange is just playing a role, imo, and it's going to be hard to tease out what's what. It's not only WIFOM-ridden, but at this point it's a bit half-hearted.


Interesting. He has my attention, and asking him his opinion of cristi was deliberately testing several theories, which may or may not have included a Lift/cristi/HSL triumverate.

He has not indulged my curiosity, however, despite responding to me on other points.

He does speak to cristi twice, but in a very light, joking fashion, and I believe it's their first interaction is quite interesting. She notes gratitude that HSL is in the game so that someone other than Krypsyn will find her scummy. Now, if you swap adalia into the game saying that, I would have voted adalia for that already, because that's the sort of thing he does when he's scum. Cristi is harder for me to read, but in prior games HSL has had her pegged quite well.

I had noticed he hadn't interacted with Lift as well though not the rest. I agree that he pushed drealmer despite not voting, though that's how he operates regardless of alignment. Other things have struck me as more curious.

I'm not particularly inclined to vote Hyper today, however. Even if I were to have him leaning slightly scummy, in the bigger picture it strikes me as a lower value play. Particularly now, as he now has RL issues that mean we're not likely to net much out of pressuring him. If he doesn't respond is it because he's lurking scum (maybe) or because he has RL issues?

Bleh, let's try again.

Third try is the charm.

Finally! That was a long read.

@Bler, welcome! We are all good friends here and every last one of us is soooo pretty and funny and smart! But also a bitch. You'll love it here.


So, here is what I got after reading the thread again.

A few people started going off flavor from at the beginning (and not just a witty or silly remark here and there but some actual pondering) - the most interesting of these were Dessimu, HSL, Lift. I don't really like such things since my experience shows that scum usually do this because it's harder for them to look involved enough otherwise, especially in the beginning. If they try to appear too townie and participate in discussions, ask questions and so on they risk exposing themselves or a buddy. Using flavor is a decent way or writing a lot, questioning stuff and theorizing using only publicly available information without risking slipping something in the process. Flavor/RP is also a bit harder to read at times and for some people so larger posts can even be neglected while still credited as an active contribution.

With all that said I'm not putting too much weight on this since we did a lot of role-playing in the previous game and I guess some people liked it or decided that this will become a thing. And it wasn't up until recently, at least not in the last 10-15 games or so.

From these 3 people Dessimu attracted most of my attention during the re-read.

That paragraph felt wrong and out of nowhere just for the sake of pointing a finger. Nothing serious, but I didn't like it.

A few times Dessimu asked HSL and later, casually, others about their areas or expertise / occupations. Names and dislikes were mostly out at some point and proven not to be impactful of the game, but occupations are still a shady area. Dessimu was quite interested in them. @Dessimu, why?

Dessimu was one of the more engaged participants in the dialogue with drealmer and didn't seem to agree too much with drealmer's standing. At some point he had a change of heart (he also spent some time and words telling a story how changes of heart are a good thing and opinions shift and whatnot in that same post) and started defending drealmer. Someone said that's a townie thing to do. If it was another case I could have gone with that but drealmer didn't do anything that made him look that much townie to catalyze such a change and provoke a wild theory like that:

On the other hand a scum knows for a fact who is Town and is able to defend them a lot stronger which in the end may net them Town points - by buddying up to the target or to other if the target gets lynched anyway.

He has been adamant on sticking to flub from the very beginning. Bler already noted how that was a good idea for scum to make sure that both viable wagon by deadline are mislynches. Dessimu provided all kinds of reasons for how good lynch target flub is and one of them was that he knew what scum-flub is like. Then it hit me that's one very good reason why scum-Dessimu is so eager to take flub out. Because flub the door opens both ways. Flub also knows what scum-Dessimu is like. Dessimu himself said how in their scum game they spent 2 night trying to take out Krypsyn because he was so inconvenient. Krypsyn went out instantly in this game as well. The other 2 immediate threats to a scum-Dessimu are the only 2 people who have some knowledge of his operation - wyrm and flub. Wyrm is not playing this time around.

Coincidence?


I don't like Hunter too much, either but the write on Dessimu expanded more than I expected and I'll need to regain some energy for that.

As for the other people I mentioned:

HSL currently feels fine to me, I like to think I'm able to... hm... sense his scummy game and I still don't get such indications yet.

Lift is Lift, mostly neutral at the moment.

I believe Trent is also Town.

Please work. Pleeeease work.

Bollocks. In my opinion, only vote jumping and weak reasons might be considered true (though I haven't re-checked these myself). But the whole talk about men is just getting crazy.

Krypsyn was a serial killer. He was a man with fake boobies. What you present here is basically a WIFOM (actual WIFOM) that there might be more serial killers in this game and that Hunter is one of 'em.

Our main goal is to eliminate mafia scum, aka ladies of LAMIST. And you are hunting for serial killers, completely ignoring main goal. If Krypsyn was scum, who turned out to be a man, then yes, maybe Hunter would be a suitable suspect. Not now. I feel like you are drawing attention away from hunting scum and into a wild goose chase. So does HypersomniacLive.

And how come you made such a deep investigation on Hunter's talk about men, but did not consider that Hunter was talking about us, players. Hunter said (post 155):

"Reminds me of a weird post I read a while back about an anime idea where a guy dresses up as girl to get into an all girls school and once he gets in he sees its all guys dressed up as girls but has to continue the act."

My interpretation:
"...a guy dresses up as girl..." - Hunter himself, pretending to be a woman
"...to get into an all girls school..." - to get into our Women's Institute, built for women (as per flavor in the OP)
"...once he gets in he sees its all guys dressed up as girls..." - as in we, other players, majority being men in real life, also posing to be women in this game



Now prove to me that this is not logical and you are not making a fuss out of nothing. You and HypersomniacLive.

I admit defeat.

Thanks, good to be here, other than the murders and the insane Dean. Or is 'insane Dean' redundant? I do know a few good ones - the exception that proves the rule, perhaps.

If Trent is scum, he's doing a good job being town-Trent-y.

Lift strikes me as playing similar to what he did the prior two games. He was town in one and SK in the other, however. So I think he's going for consistency, and I'm not inclined to read much into that being indicative of his alignment. It's his vote I find most interesting, though I did see he at least generally addressed it above.

That's good analysis of Dess, and tempting in certain regards. Worth noting he was sharper as scum than as town in the subsequent game - being in the under-informed majority is harder after all, especially in the early going, than the informed minority.

Interestingly I don't see all that much difference between what dess did D1 vs. what Lift ultimately did, the difference being that dess was in the mix (39 posts, though some less relevant than others) and Lift was fairly lurky (8 posts). If one is looking past form/frequency, they both ended up at the same place on what looks like the same rationale.



Do you feel shame?