Thanks. Yes, I'm checking out your claim, since the check is public info. I figure scum will probably look into it anyway, but be a little less likely to share their results.

Probably going to be another hour or two before I can respond to posts and provide some analysis. I have today off as Veteran's Day, which ended up meaning I was watching the child more or less all day instead of being at the office.

I know you asked yogs, but I find that a good question as it can cause confusion for people who think scum is one thing while others think it's another. To me scum is mafia and a role like a SK is anti-town, both are bad for town but in different categories. I think of them that way because a neutral is on their own trying to play scum against town and vice versa, but scum are trying to evade detection and get town to kill each other off during the day as they try to do the same during the night.

To me, pro/anti-town and town/scum are entirely different metrics. Scum is any role that has a win condition inimical to town's. On the other hand, scum can behave in a pro-town manner (at least publicly), and town can behave in an anti-town manner.

Last question, while I'm finishing up my post on your claim. Would you care to claim Neutral before anyone tries to pin you for being scum?

Nope.

Okay, here we go with a Text O Doom. All of this post will be concerned with Yog's claims; if you aren't interested, you can skip it and probably not miss much (except some extraneous notes at the end).

I may not be very good at reading people's intentions, but I think I can run fact analysis pretty well. Let's take a look at what Yog has claimed and see how far we get.

I've waded through the previous games, starting with Game 24 since in the Admin thread he indicated that was his first. Yog assist modded Lift's STALKER game (or something, he was involved), he modded his LotR game (obviously), and he played in the rest (6 of them). Thus, he "has participated in some capacity" in these games.

Here are my full notes on the scum claims and teams, including a few neutrals. If you want to double check that I got this list of data correct, go right ahead and with my blessing. I didn't think to note down post numbers and I'm not going back for those.

=====

Game 24 (Space Ships):
Adalia Was Mafia StrongMan, Claimed Paranoid Gun Owner
Krypsyn Was Watcher, Claimed Watcher
Mrkgnao Was Role Cop, Claimed JOAT (1x Follower ability, others unclaimed)

Game 25 (Milk):
RW (Serial Killer), Claimed SK
Dedo Was Godfather, Didn't Claim?
Sage Was Godfather, Claimed Gun smith
Ixam Was Rolecop, Didn't claim
TwilightBard Was Rolecop, Didn't Claim?

Game 26 (Stalker):
Adalia Was Goon, Claimed CPR Doctor
CSPVG Was Goon, Didn't Claim
Flub Was Goon, Claimed Neutral Survivor I think? [Screw that. I'm not retranslating all the zombie.]
Krypsyn Was Goon, Didn't claim?

Sage (Neutral Survivor), Roughly JOAT

Game 27 (Gameshow):
JMich Was Doctor, Claimed Doctor
Flub Was Vanilla, Claimed Vanilla
Cristigale Was Tracker, Claimed Tracker

Game 28 (Grand Oak Gallows):
Dedo Was Compulsive FireFighter, Didn't Claim
RW Was Roleblocker, Claimed Handyman (JOAT with watcher and roleblocker at least)
Yogsloth Was Mafia Fighter (several powers), soft Claimed JOAT variant? (commute, role cop)

Flub Was Arsonist, Claimed [Town] Arsonist
JMich was Town Guard of Arsonist, Didn't Claim?

Game 29 (LotR):
Wyrm Was Doctor, Claimed Doctor
Quad Was Cop, Claimed Cop
Hijack Was Strongman, Claimed Bulletproof Berserker

Game 30 (Murder Mansion):
CSPVG Was Pickpocket, Claimed Neutral Thief
Krypsyn Was Thug (Strongman), Claimed Restriction Preventer
Adalia Was Imitator, Claimed Imitator
BlueMooner Was Intimidator (Restrictor), Didn't Claim?

Game 31 (Space Station):
Adalia Was a Weirdo, Claimed Coroner
Yogsloth Was a Weirdo, Didn't Claim?
Hijack Was a Weirdo, Claimed Jailer
mchack Was a Weirdo, Didn't claim?

=====

There are certain filters to be applied to the list of claims:
With these filters in place, the list becomes this:
-Paranoid Gun Owner
-JOAT (1x Follower ability, others unclaimed)
-Gun smith
-Neutral Survivor with a searching ability
-Handyman (JOAT with watcher and roleblocker at least)
-Yogsloth Was Mafia Fighter (several powers), soft Claimed JOAT variant? (commute, role cop at least)
-Bulletproof Berserker
-CSPVG Was Pickpocket, Claimed Neutral Thief
-Restriction Preventer
-Coroner
-Jailer

I feel safe knocking off a few more powers for various reasons:
-Gun Smith seems out of place and weak.
-JOAT is copied a few times on the list, with varying shot claims.
-Yog claimed to be Town, not Neutral (and thus not Survivor).
-Bulletproof Berserker seems absurd. Also neutral.
-CSPVG basically claimed his role, but not his alignment. Not a false role claim.
-I feel safe assuming restrictions aren't the thing this game that they were in RW's game.

So, what could he be?
-PGO
-JOAT (abilities unknown)
-Coroner
-Jailer

Lets look at another claim post of his, and see if there is anything to glean. Some snipping done for length:
Implications of cop (and maybe a N0 action), tracker or watcher, PGO or Vig, and "Doc" (he didn't finish out "doctor"). However, he also says "This is totally not a role claim", which may apply to either end (or both) of these subtle hints.
Only PGO from this list would fit with his talk about the scum false claim, but is it valid when he says this isn't a role claim?

Lastly, I see two ways of looking at his "Hint: It’s not CPR doctor". 1) It isn't an outrageous role (a la Bulletproof Berserker), or 2) Adalia is the one that made the false claim which matches to Yog's current role.

So, one last question Yog: Should we expect to not get flips this game?

================
Unrelated discoveries:
-Krypsyn has been running this Prettiest Princess thing since at least Telika's Space Ship game.
-I just realized that Hijack's Bulletproof Berserker was either rather dumb (LotR has no bullets) or unintentionally smart (Arthur Dent might have theoretically had some bullets). Just an amusing thought I had while working on all this.

This is why I hate talking PM or role information, what does all this matter? How does any of this benefit town in finding scum? You could have boiled this down to just asking yogs if he thinks there will be flips in the game.

You missed at least one.

Sometimes it really is the most appropriate answer.

Though in regards to Wyrm's post I probably would have gone with "Huh."

Not entirely sure what to make of that, more in regards to why you've actually pigeonholed yogs into a specific claim. On D1. While he's at L-a bunch.

One thing to publicly catalog all the possible claims (though I'm not sure I would've done that) and another to also actively analyze it down, which I'm definitely leery of.

I guess I'm curious - do you see yogs as more likely to be town, or scum (or I suppose, "other")? If you think he's scum, are you trying to box him into a particular claim so he can't wiggle later? If you think he's town, are you doing him a favor? Establishing what he is going to claim doesn't exactly elucidate his actual role/alignment, does it?

Personally that seems about the most appropriate answer. I'm not a fan of the original soft-claim here, but I'm not sure the push to a hard claim in this way via analysis is any better, at least at this point.

These are not mutually exclusive.

Shit, now I don't know how to answer that.

how
ever the
heck

lol

Another wall. Please let me know if there is a more appealing way to format.

Thread notes and responses:
-Post 191 (Flub): Not sure I care much for some of Flub's insinuations. Watching for now.
-Post 194 (Yog): Almost feels like an OMGUS vote here.
-Post 200 (Yog): Both good points and bad points. Some of Flub's arguments are weak ("unable to move forward"), but they don't necessarily mean Flub himself isn't scum (or SK or something). Also seems to preclude neutrals being in the game; why?
-Post 210 (Yog): Yog has claimed Town. If he's scum, then my analysis on his role is irrelevant because he might be lying. If he's neutral, then LAL. If he's town, then the role analysis should hold unless I missed something (entirely possible).
-Post 221 (Bler): Some good points here.
-Post 279 (HSL): I like this one. Good points with some funny mixed in.

-----

Depends on whether you think lynching whoever just happens to pick up enough votes is a better solution. Depending on how things go, if people claim at L-1 and the voting just happens to repeatedly land on stronger power roles first, then we could end up outing MORE roles that way. I don't think I'd personally back such an argument, but I can see the framework for it.

-----

While I agree tunnel-vision is bad, shall we instead wait for some other opening for more serious conversation, shall we spin our wheels with silly (which I did enjoy, but don't really see as progressing the game), or some third option?

I'm not sure how to find slips or credibly connect relationships between players without something game related being the object of discussion.


-----

Hmm.

-----

How?

----

Beyond an implication rooted in what I've done for Yog's claim, I don't see a whole lot else on the table yet. Tomorrow I'll try to walk through the OP and see what I can glean from it.

-----

Woo! Didn't need the explanation!

I was imagining it as Scum wanting to bite into a Doctor role and getting a mouthful of PGO instead.

-----

Flagged for later review.

-----

And this is exactly why I would classify things like Serial Killers as Scum, while Neutral Survivors (for example) are Neutral. :)

-----

You're right, I suppose I could have done that. Didn't really occur to me NOT to post it after I spent a few hours (off and on) tracking down the info and then some more time running the analysis.

1) Since I'm going to be doing the work, I can post my results to save other townies the effort if they are inclined to trust me.
2) Anyone that cares to check my analysis can point out where I might have gone wrong.
3) Someone is going to go "Why do you ask that? What do you know?"
4) To outline why I think the question is relevant. It is Day 1; I don't care to get lynched based on suspicion of being a Janitor or something.
5) To possibly give another avenue of discussion (game setup) that isn't necessarily PM related.
6) I don't have my "heh" membership card yet.

Please notice that I haven't asked anything about the other possibilities, beyond the implied "Are you a coroner". If someone has reason to believe we do/don't get flips, I think that is useful information to know. Perhaps it won't influence Day 1, but then again it might.

-----

Interesting. I'm not going back through the threads again, so we'll just have to wonder whether your claim is among the missed one(s).

-----

Let me counter with a question: Which claim did I pigeon hole him into?

I didn't ask for a hard claim, though it would have been somewhat implied by an answer of "Yes" to my question (can a JOAT have a 1x Coroner ability?). I didn't negate the other possibilities I think are most likely. I DID ask about a piece of information that I consider to be rather important to town.

I don't know his alignment; I'm not up to his level when it comes to messing with people's heads (and surviving) and I know it. If town, then Yog laid out his soft claim and I expect he's prepared (or hopes he's prepared) to deal with the consequences. If he's scum, then I think locking him into a role claim is good for town. Since I don't know which he is, I'm not going to push him to be more specific in his actual claim right now. What I WILL do is see what happens when it is all put together. Or are we not supposed to check out people's claims, soft or otherwise?