Coming soon does not mean "coming right now"

That would be bler.

Oh, and yeah. That analysis. Almost done. I will post it after classes though.

what... the... fuck....

I don't know about you folks but last night I needed to have take a swig in order to calm the nerves and get to sleep. I had myself some of this ROOT.

So...that's....really....interesting....and totally awesome that scum has eliminated scum AGAIN!

How many can be left?!!?! I've got a numbers break down coming up if I can get it done before my partner wakes up (annnnnd, the power went out while I was typing this and now she is also awake so it will have to wait.) During the overnight I've been really trying to figure out who seems to be on whose team. It totally looks like kryps was taking advantage of having figured out at least a couple of another scum team and going on board with them, clever fucker, glad he's dead.

I'm not sure but it may have been me but I don't see why you'd simply want to lynch someone for theorizing ideas on the setup. Especially when I just let my mind pontificate to all possibilities trying to figure out WTF is going on to help town. Especially considering we still don't know how many scum teams there are. Read my setup theorizing post from yesterday again and tell me why you really think I'm scummy for those ideas if you do.

Again, I'm not even sure if I was first to mention it, but, whoever did, if at all, should be analyzed on how they went about broaching the idea, not simply because they broached it. That would lead towards a mentality/practice of suppressing thoughts, which does not help town. Is that what you want? Me and others to stop sharing ideas we think are possibilities to try and figure out wtf goes on?

Sounds to me like it's possible you're afraid of people figuring things out, like you're upset someone may be figuring out what is going on (and that only matters if you're scum, otherwise you'd be happy with it for town, I'm pretty sure.) This sounds like you're possibly just trying to come up with some arbitrary reason for finding a next lynch target, hoping others will be on board with no real logic as to why it makes sense to lynch that person.

I still think it is possible there are THREE or FOUR teams. 8v2v2v2v2 seems more and more likely given how people are allying themselves but I suppose 7v3v3v3 is possible? Seems like a lot of scum, but then, it seems like a lot of scum have been dying. I still see other options as possible too. Should I hold them back out of fear that I'll be lynched for putting them forth? FECK no!

I have to go, but I'm really wanting to share more pontifications. I have thoughts on who could be on whose teams (dead+alive) with the various number breakdowns, how many scum could be left, who I think is more likely town, etc.

Krypsyn flipping as he did helps with the picture as I see it make more sense. Maybe book is upset about that in general because he lost his scum-buddy jailer and no longer feels safe behind the false idea of 2 teams? Hmmhmmmmmm....more later!

Quite enough, it would seem.

Am I the only one around here who is concerned that people are flipping either Town vanilla or Mafia Jailers or not at all?! Still at the office, will be back for more time later tonight.

Defensive much? Especially after outlining an obvious way to try and figure out who was suggesting as a possibility and who was suggesting from hidden knowledge?

You forgot the Mafia Goon that started this flipping shindig.

Hey, I have more time. Woo! but now I have to say, I've been reading mafiascum.net more. I don't know why I didn't think to do it sooner, but then I realize I actually haven't had nearly as much time to devote to this game as I'd like. I realize this is only my second game, but, after reading more rules/setups/roles, etc., I have to say:

OKAY FOLKS!! HOLD THE fuck ON!!!!!!!!

But, first, someone, I think it was flub, said something about driving or steering actions somehow and at that time it really piqued my brain but I didn't have time to think any more about it or question it. But now with having a 3rd "mafia jailer" flip on top of the other weird flips it made me think that MAYBE those are false somehow too, and I went exploring the rules to try and learn more about what I could find out about anything, realizing I feel a bit lost.

And, okay, I know this is only my 2nd game, and so I realize that everyone else in the farking game (sorry, I'm a bit heated after reading the stuff I just read) may just take these possibilities for granted and are not discussing them for all sorts of various reasons, but, I find it really really really fishy as to WHY on EARTH has NO experienced player brought up the idea of a GODFATHER role? Geeebus farking shist!!! I'm reading rules and roles and setups and I see this:

"In games with multiple killers, instead of appearing innocent on Cop reports, the Godfather may be Bulletproof instead; they will appear guilty on Cop reports as normal, but cannot be killed at Night." Obviously multiple teams, obviously multiple killers I think. It makes me think so many things! Do we really not have a cop among us? I'm really guessing it was JMich or HSL and that we lost them early and now it is just a bloodbath bedlam going on and I'm going to be lucky to get out of it alive. Hence, I want to VOTE #3. Seriously, if I am roleplaying, I am fucking terrified right now because of the thoughts that are rolling around my head.

Anyway,...to try and keep it together...

SO THAT IS THE OBVIOUS ANSWER as to why there haven't been multiple kills at night. Geezus. I don't know, maybe I'm naive or too new or something, but, it just seems obvious!! And again, I don't understand why no one has brought it up, other than the fact that there are 8 or 9 scum out of 16 players and none of them want to talk about anything even close to any of that, much less touch on the existence of jailers or not in anyways other than try and confuse town into figuring out what is going on. ARGGH. Can the setup really be this confusing? Or is it just seeming that confusing because I'm new? And then I feel like "oh shit! maybe then that is probably it and I should probably not say anything!" But now, this stuff needs talked about.

I mean, look already, bookwyrm is wanting to kill whomever came up with AN IDEA first. Or rather, who had the balls to SPEAK it first, because who knows who THOUGHT of it first. Probably the people who are on scum teams that P1na was not on. IF p1na was even scum. I don't even know at this point. I asked krypsyn what he thought about that, among other things, and the things he has said need analyzed more than anything at this point I think. I mean, aside from people telling me what they think about all these ^ thoughts too!

Anyway, now that I've read this godfather stuff (I admit, I think I read it before early in game 31 when I was trying to figure out what was going on there, but quickly dismissed the godfather role and related things in that and didn't retain any of it at all) and have a better understanding, thoughts are going all over the place. I'd really like people to give more thoughts about it all.

I mean, afterall, it's fucking 1931 prohibition times. I think we should start to assume there is at least 1 godfather role in the game, no? And then I look at alignment for the godfather, it doesn't even say he is MAFIA, it says he is anti-town!!! HOLY SHET! Okay, theory time:

1 godfather, neutral. 2 or 3 or 4 scum teams (no telling at this point for me, it's so convoluted with the flips, maybe there are just 2 teams?) each with their own jailers or "protectors" who when they die flip that role for whatever reason and who are by mechanic somehow made to die before the godfather is allowed to die in the game (at least by NK? I suppose nothing can prevent a lynch if a lynch goes?) So maybe we have an alive neutral godfather and multiple teams killing each other, and IF anyone is to try the godfather it simply "deflects" to someone else? OMG so many thoughts to go with this.

If the godfather does get lynched, do you think a new godfather takes the place? I would think not with it being a neutral role and I think that is perhaps what town is going for, of course. You want to eliminate the boss first and foremost! I mean, I've seen enough mob movies. It just MAKES SENSE. and again, really fishy no one has brought anything regarding any of this it up. YOU ARE ALL FISHY TO ME. Well, maybe not bler. HijacK is looking less fishy too. Anyway, not getting into all of that right now.

If this neutral godfather idea is true would the godfather know who is scum? Would the scum teams know who the godfather is?

Anyway. SO, I also think, something seemed weird with trent throughout. He seemed extra pissed as well when he became the lynch. MAYBE HE WAS THE NEUTRAL GODFATHER and we GOT HIM!!! Maybe because our cop role died the mechanic is that flips come out a certain way and we have to just decipher it. If that is the case, well, yeah, things are really starting to come together I think.

Or maybe I'm just crazy.

But I really think we need to discuss all these sorts of issues, do we think it is possible that 1 certain type of role is being flipped wrongly, or all of them, or that certain things mean certain other things with flips (maybe there aren't multiple jailers and that is just...I don't know!) Ugh, that just seems so convoluted and like, madness in a way because there is no real telling truth at all, and it's just a bloodbath until the end. Is that "normal"? Is this a "bastard" game simply because of wrong flips? I just don't know enough to begin evaluating the game at this level any more I think, so I will stick to what I can have fun with and find within my realm of play-ability. Which is basically just spewing pontifications that I hope are helpful but might just be diarrhea of the brain+mouth.

I've learned that a godfather role can get investigated as town vanilla, but it didn't say anything about flipping vanilla, but maybe that is how it works in this game and we got the godfather and a bunch of other scum are dead and we are well on the way to winning the game. I am feeling more and more at ease with that, honestly. Just, how many can there be left?! and who the fark is it?

Wow,..a third jailor. Just have a second right now.

Drealmer - do you ever come up for air ;-)

Just defending the idea/principle, whoever it includes. Myself, bler, or anyone else who might become a target simply for posing an idea. You gave no real reason why, just said "whoever did it, perhaps we should lynch them!" essentially. That seems bad practice, imo. Okay so now you say "to try and figure out who was suggesting as a possibility and who was suggesting from hidden knowledge", but you didn't say that at first. You didn't bother to go find out who it was OR give a reason as to why that mode of action makes any sense. I can understand the view of the thought of suggesting from hidden knowledge, but, if you are posing that idea I think you should actually find who did it first and make an assessment and THEN pose that to the group, instead of just making the statement you made as you did.

Anyway, if it is still an issue you for you (that someone posed the idea first), please, do find out if it was bler, or me, or who it might have been, and let us know what you think. Me, I don't think it's a good way to go about finding scum.

I think we should try and figure out who is on whose teams, with the deads and the wagons and all of that, and figure out who is most likely to be left, and talk about that.

You may be onto something there....



The games I've played in "usually" have godfather and cop as the balanced roles.

However since we've had multiple mafia jailers (usually it's a town jailer) I can't rule out any possibility.

I didn't bring it up because I haven't seen any reason to do so. Adalia claimed unspecified powers and then flipped Town Vanilla, and Hijack has been the first to say he had an investigative role (without specifying whether it was cop or something else, like tracker). No cop, no reason for a Godfather.

Let me ask you a similar question to what I asked Yog, waaaay back when. Do you have reason to believe there might be a cop?

That alternative for the Godfather is new to me; if I've seen it, then I'd forgotten it. I would, however, be skeptical that it is the case here. By way of example, lets assume there are two scum teams: if one has a Bulletproof GF, while the other doesn't, then the BGF team seems to have an advantage. If both teams have a BGF, then what happens if those two players end up being the last players left alive? Maybe they lose the Bulletproof after a certain condition is met, but I reject the idea of indefinitely BGF being in the game. Lift is too smart to leave such an obvious possible stalemate in place.

I rather think having 3 jailers might have something to do with the lack of kills. But that's just me.

Heh.

Wait, what? You start with a crazy idea, and then the LSD kicks in (did you kill Krypsyn and sample his stock?). A godfather makes sense in Prohibition era Mafia game: fine, I can accept that. Yet, somehow this godfather is neutral (not aligned with any mafia), and we have fewer kills because the godfather is (repeatedly!) deflecting attempts to kill him off on other players? And somehow town is supposed to identify this non-mafia godfather and lynch him to win instead of the stated win condition, because he's the boss of all of the competing mafia teams. But at least he probably isn't replaced when he gets lynched.

And everyone (except Bler and Hijack) are scummy because they didn't propose an idea like this before now.

No offense, but I'm going to file the previous scenario under the folder you named here.

You've already suggested that all of the flips might be false, and also that there might be 8-9 mafia at the start. So I suppose there are 0-8 mafia left, depending on how many town players are left and how many neutral mafia-controlling-godfathers are around.

You're right, maybe I'm just scum hoping to point a finger at any old lynch. Or maybe, just maybe, I'm thinking "lets look at the person(s) that suggested not 1, not 2, but 3 mafia teams and see if maybe there was a slip there". Because hey, who'd expect three mafia teams in one game? Not just three mafia jailers, but three full mafia teams. If there are (were?) two mafia teams, then we've got a few scenarios: 1) One or more jailers flipped incorrectly, 2) One team had more jailers than the other, or 3) There is yet another mafia jailer running around. After seeing a third mafia jailer flip up, I'd consider 3 teams, but before seeing that 3rd jailer? A little harder for me to buy.

What makes you think I haven't gone back and looked? Why should I spill what I think is the case before seeing some other reactions? Remember what happened when I went to investigate a public claim, based on public data?

I... got nothing too. I admit I was using "Mafia Jailer" as a metric for a true flip but I like playing these games based on "How likely was that" and I really don't think... what... 3 of the last 4 flips being mafia jailers is at all something I can count on as true.

So flips aside, what DO we have to work with?

That's an excellent question, actually.

General questions for everyone left alive:
1) At this time, does anyone wish to claim having been jailed?
2) At this time, does anyone wish to claim a night action or role?

For me, the answer to both of the above is "no".

Don't think so and no for me.

I did! Thanks. That actually made me feel better. I think.


Anyway, things are looking worse and I don't even know if I want to hear of someone was jailed or not. As it would seem, scum are either jailing the same people and we aren't getting redundant reports or if they jail each other this is kept a secret, probably to hide the information of having multiple teams as much as possible and have the ability to look like you they are scum hunting for real (which they are, but you know what I mean).

I'm even more sure now that Ix is scum. I can't be sure that Yogs and Krypsyn were his buddies and honestly I don't really care, but it would seem like it. Their focus and efforts looked in tune and even more so now that 2 out of the 3 have been NKed (!).



vote Ixamyakxim

unless something tremendously more important comes up.



But, before I forget I would like to go back a bit. I spoke mostly with Wyrm about this but it's for everyone who cares.

Adalia claimed some role with abilities and a name. Tommy Sunday or something like that, I can't be bothered to go back and look it up right now. He flipped an entirely different role and an entirely different name! This was the reason I thought it wasn't a self imposed change. Trent, on the other hand, flipped exactly what he said he would. That's noteworthy to say the least. If Trent changed adalia why didn't he change his entirely flip and make it less obvious?



@HijacK, do you have something to share?