I believe we're waiting for drealmer to break the tie. Unless Leonard is going to vote himself.

Not gonna happen.

Technically it's not tied. It's 5-4.

I don't get what's magical about waiting until after the hammer to spill the beans. Is said bag of beans going to suddenly make Leonard somehow look not guilty?

No, probably not. So why tell us later rather than now? The only answer I can come to is your entire gambit is banking on Leonard flipping scum and selling that as you being clear.

I was listening to Q yesterday, and they were interviewing Ethan Hawke and Mitch Albom about their new books. Wish I could find a transcript, but one of them said something really interesting about "truth" which was something along the lines of "The truth doesn't need to fear scrutiny."

Side question, but what, hypothetically, will you do if we're deadlocked 6-6 and headed for no lynch?

OHMY! I see the state of the votes, but, let me read and catch up on everything.

I will say that as of the beginning of D3 I was all set to vote leonard (like I said before we lynched adaliabooks), but, I must read through the progression of things before voting at this point. The thought I had previously is: if we lynch leonard and he flips town jailer, then tomorrow we lynch yogsloth, but, yeah, let me read and catch up and figure out if that is still even my stance and wtf has gone on.

Let's make it a tie:
Vote: yogsloth

Had to skim through a 25 min video, but found it:

“You don’t have to protect the truth. You just have to live in the truth and it will protect you.”

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/q/schedule-for-tuesday-november-24-1.3332294/ethan-hawke-s-new-book-rules-for-a-knight-1.3332317 around the 21:30 mark.

Not sure my kid is old enough for the book, but I liked what EH had to say. And I must say, Shad is really growing into the role. I'm not a huge Albom fan, but that was a really good interview too.

Head's up note, btw:

I'm leaving work in about one hour.

Thus will start the "not around very much" part of the extended holiday weekend. I've stored my reveal post in the cloud, but wherever I may be when hammerfalls, I'll have to retrieve it to post it.

I've heard of it! If I recall there's one group of people interested in seeking the way things really are, and another group of people who intentionally seek to mislead.


Don't suppose drealmer's online to take him to L-1 so he'll maybe claim/info dump before he runs out the door so we have 4 days to chew on whatever it is he has to say?

No?

So...since yogs' is a key figure regardless of which way the vote swings, I guess now the staring at each other really begins in earnest.

Understandable, but not what I was doing. My point with flub was more to point out that he doesn't really share any of his thoughts, at all, ever, (it seems to me), and I was frustrated with that, especially considering he seems to have enough thoughts on yogs to be voting him. He must have thoughts around all of that, I figure, I'm curious what they are, they seem pretty solid and damning of yogs, you know?

(I wasn't asking you for what information you had, flub, I was asking you to share SOME thoughts of SOME sort, hell, about anything would be nice.)

I just like to have open discussion about all theories, mine and others. Not so I can jump on and say "oh yeah that!", but, as conversation/discussion about all possibilities and thoughts had so we can actually WORK TOGETHER to try and figure out wtf is up (with yogs and everything else going on in-game.)

Okay, well, I'll reiterate that I found it rather not-cool and possibly scummy to me, and definitely doesn't sit well with me regardless, for you to see me say "I'm not having fun" and it seemed your response was basically "too bad, play anyway." Off of it now, and sorry for my shitty attitude.

I didn't say I was jailed, I wasn't jailed (unless I received no notification, I suppose is an option, so more accurately I should say "I have no awareness of being jailed.") I think you're misunderstanding me. Or, more likely, fabricating things to make look how you want them to look so you can validate voting me because of my read on you, OR because you simply don't like how I play the game.

The point you're missing is that I don't believe you were jailed. I believe you didn't die because you're scum and the prodding was of no concern to you (as I pointed out previously.) Being jailed is an easy way to explain away why you were safe. I'm inclined to believe that it is a lie more than the alternative, at least. (especially considering your re-iteration of the statement "pls. I was jailed..." to Ix when he shares some theory. Yes, we know you said you were jailed, why do you feel the need to repeat yourself? To me that is more something a liar does.) If leonard doesn't flip town jailer, you're my next highest suspect, simple as that.

Right now it is looking to me like bookwyrm is very afraid of what yogs is going to tell us (he seemed so earlier in the day as well, is how it is reading to me) and wants to prevent it at all cost. (oh hey, and yogs calls him on that I see...reading on!...)

So, I got done reading. Sheesh! *lets the brain wrack a few*

...and that's pretty much it. Wound up working a little later than I thought, but I'm out.

I'll try to keep up tonight as best I can.

Okay, for me the paths still seem pretty clear. I was confident adalia was scum, yogs said not to trust flips, adalia claims neutral weird-role (is that the right order? I don't even know, to me it is irrelevant, maybe it shouldn't be? hmmmm), adalia flips town, I don't believe the flip and I don't think anyone else does either, so I begin to trust yogs. Is that a ploy by yogs to get me to trust him when I shouldn't? I am aware that that is possible, I suppose, but it just doesn't add up. Like, at all, for me. I know I'm not perceptive and experienced yet, so I remain wary of yogs and, as I said, if leonard flips town jailer, yogs has to be the next lynch, imo. But, he has to KNOW that that's how it would play, right? That makes me wonder, how can he be doing anything other than telling the truth? He knows he's dead if leonard flips town jailer, so why would he put himself out there that hard? Especially considering I believe we have killed 2 scum already and he has been on board with that, why would he be if he were scum too? Okay, that just made me have a thought: maybe he has some other kind of role that he wins if everyone is dead? Shall I ask if anyone thinks he's a serial killer or something like that? are you all going to jump on me and kill me for even mentioning it?

Yeah, I definitely don't like all the hinting crap that he has done through the game because, as dedo says, we're chapters behind it seems and that is annoying and C'MON MAN GIVE US A FRIKKEN CLUE ALREADY (I'm with you bler, I'd like it sooner rather than later and it does make me suspect SLIGHTLY of wtf is going on because of his resistance, but, it's not severe enough for me to vote him. I think you may be letting your frustrartion and fear guide your vote rather than logic+playing the game smartly. However, if I'd played more games with yogs I could probably see myself in your position going "no way, not this time, man~! not even giving yogs the slightest chance to get one over on me"), and it definitely makes me want to pressure him for info, but, having that slight bit of trust I'm inclined to go ahead and let him do what he wants to do as he sees fit, and then evaluate whatever it is when the time comes.

Perhaps I have to learn the hard way? We will see! YAY! I'm having fun! I suppose you're all looking for my vote?

what if I:

vote HijacK

hahaha!

Huh.

Regardless of how you view yogs/wyrm's alignment, if anything, more votes pushes yogs towards claim which would precisely mean yogs talking.

So I don't see how that theory follows. Like myself (and I think Flub), wyrm seems to be quite wary of yogs ability to duck and dodge, and would rather have him on the record sooner rather than later.

You didn't get to see it last game, but yogs has pulled off some amazing bluffs and strategies. I think he pointed out himself this game that he has NEVER been lynched. And he's played what, 7 games and been scum at least 3 times, right?

Think about that. Last game wasn't a full game, so maybe he would have gone down in that one, but... The amount of distrust some of us have is well-earned, and is, tbh, a form of respect.


If you vote Hijack then Hijack votes you. He seems inclined to anyway. Which, for the time being, may be fine since we may be in for a loooong, slow extended weekend. And you could be right that he's scum, or he could be right that you're scum, but neither of you is actually on the menu for the group as a whole, likely for either D3 or D4.

But since we're not doing anything else atm, suit yourself.

There's no question my distrust is significant - I'm not asking anyone to commit to lynching yogs today. I'm not sure that we should. At least speaking for myself, I was pushing for people to vote him, at least for now, precisely to get him to tell us what he knows/thinks and how he came upon that knowledge before we commit to a course of action for D3.

Personally I think he's just stalling because right now he is cornered, and is relying on Leonard's flip as his get-out-of-jail-free card, but I could be wrong and he could have a perfectly reasonable explanation. Whatever it is, I'd like to hear it and think about it, personally.

Why is he all in on Leonard? Well, Leonard does look pretty scummy. I don't think yogs is bussing a teammate here, but would yogs bus his whole team if he had to to win? Yes, yes he would.

This is pretty much how my day will be tomorrow. I have two Thanksgiving dinners to attend (luckily, they are only about 45 minutes apart), so even when I get home I'll probably need a nap.

Two avenues of possibility as I see them:

1.)

P1na + adalia. If leonard is their 3rd, I think HijacK is likely to be their 4th. Maybe I'm off on HijacK though, so if I'm right about leonard but off about HijacK, who is the 4th? Bookwyrm seems like the next probability to me.


2.)

If leonard gets lynched and flips town jailer then HijacK is cleared and yogsloth has to be the next lynch, imo (and kryspyn after him, actually, as that would almost confirm their "cahootiness" to me. but for the record I actually don't see cahootiness, I see people of a similar mind about the game and I am inclined to believe them/think similarly.) I suppose I should be open to hearing what yogsloth has to say if leonard flips town jailer and not immediately go for lynching him, but, at that point I'm probably not going to believe much he has to say. It would have to be good, but even then, probably not enough to save him at that point in my eyes.

hmm.)

I don't see what the advantage is to lynching yogsloth today, honestly, can someone explain it to me why to vote him other than "we're afraid of his manipulation skills and if he is manipulating us, better to get rid of him NOW" ?

I understand that wariness+precautionary state of mind, but, is it reason to lynch him? flub? anyone? can any of you voting him try to convince me to vote yogsloth over leonard? I'm just quite comfortable with the leonard choice with how everything has gone. I still don't see how more people aren't on board with leonard. He must be wooing them with purrrrty pictures.

trent>---I had the same thought about P1na. Maybe P1na IS town as claimed and that flip was bogus too? But does that theory warrant voting yogs at this point? If so, why?

It is a team game, remember, and just because 1 might die overnight to yogs+team if he is mastermind-ing a massive town-slaughter as scum (or I suppose individually as a SK!>?!?!?!?!), doesn't mean it might not serve to advantage the rest of us if we let him live today to see what unfolds from it. I would gladly give my own life in order for town to gain more knowledge vs. less, so I'm not afraid to wait another day to see what happens with leonard+yogsloth walls of text.

Input/feedback on all of that will be much appreciated, as, all that flipping madness is really frustrating for me to try and conceive of all the possibilities. And I definitely don't want to be had-over by yogs, either.

+refresh+

@bler at this point do you really think yogs is going to claim or give any information? Are you saying you don't actually want to lynch him if the votes are there for him? (if I were convinced and voted him and hijack came and hammered, you'd be satisfied with that result?) I don't think I'm a fan of voting to pressure someone. Put your votes on who you think is most likely scum is what I think is best. Come the end of the day if your #1 pick isn't on the table, then you have to evaluate your comfort level with other options, but, to simply stay on someone as pressure, I'm just not sure about.

I'm not actually voting HijacK, obviously, that wouldn't be very helpful right now. Can you help me understand why HijacK doesn't become immediately more suspect if leonard flips anything other than town jailer?