I'm with HijacK on this one. I usually refer to mafia as scum, though I can accept that some people may refer to anti-town neutrals (like Serial Killers or arsonists) as scum. But saying that a neutral survivor is scum is not necessarily true.
Unfortunately, there aren't that many neutral roles that can benefit town, but the neutrals do differ from mafia for a very important reason, lack of information (and thus coordination).

Vitek or Krypsyn should be able to correct me, but I don't think scum was used to refer to neutrals in the earlier games.

I consider any player with an anti-town win condition as scum (Serial Killer is a prime example, as you point out). However, I don't consider a neutral role that wins along with town as 'scum'. Vitek's opinion may possibly differ.

This is mostly the way I see it.
I can't say I recall it clearly but I think scum used to equal mafia back in the really old times and we kept SK aside but it is really long ago.
Only we used to call them hippies all back then and they were not getting in trouble as often as these times. They were more orderly, well-behaved and respected old people. Not like today.
Now it's all about disrespect, greed and selfishness.

Now get off my lawn!

Well for me it came from the "broken game" list from rwarehall. As I think I've said clearly enough when I voted. I kinda forgot flubbucket was even in the game before that and since none of the other wagons were really viable for me (apart from viteks, but he isn't gonna be policy lynched), I thought this would be a nice way to test the list. I give it two fails before I discard it completely. ( since rwarehall was promising a minimum 50% chance of success)

So why flubs?
- He was next up in the list but apart from the newbies (today) I guess I can see myself voting for anyone on there.

- If he is scum he is very well hidden in lurkerspace (though the posts got more frequent these last days, he hasn't really contributed apart from his suspicions about trent) and if not lynched today, I think he has the best chance of getting to mid- or endgame that way, because tomorrow we'll probably hang someone more involved, with the information gathered through analysing today and the flips. And so on. So if scum he'd be one hell of an unnoticed threat to us.

- If he is town it would be a shame to lynch him, but I feel we wouldn't loose as much scumhunting potential, as we would when lynching any of the other current players with wagons on them. As for powerroles, I hope he'd derail the wagon somehow, when he had an important role like agentcarr did (but hopefully alot more subtle than that. that wasn't cool the way you did it agent) but right now it doesn't look like we'd loose all that much.

- If he is neutral ... Well, can't say I care much for neutrals.

So the risk/gain potential I see in lynching flubbucket is pretty good, with the added benefit of helping (dis)prove that list of rwarehall. Because I feel that most people won't be playing with their heart in it anymore as long as it's being said half of the players are confirmed town and untouchable and scum is "pinned down" already. As I said before I don't believe that's the case, but we have to have some flips to prove it isn't. (Or as I also said before, end this game quickly if it is true after all)

I can see where are you coming from but I can't say I agree with it and I remain really unconvinced about this wagon.
I see flub no different from his usual play and don't see basis for his lynch. I am not a fan of lurker lynches overall and this one in particualr I find no basis for.

I also don't think it does much for RWare's list. I feel like there is a bit more unconfirmed players than he listed and flip on any side can be as well flop as confirmation/disapprovation of the list.

Fair enough. You don't have to join if you don't feel it's apropriate, it's a choice I made for myself and I'm sticking to it. The reasons for my choice, I think I've put down adequatly enough, judge them as you will.

I think flubbucket is making a choice with playing the way he does, and it's nothing personal that I vote for him now based on his playstyle. I am actually quite awed at how many games he's probably already played and the experience that comes with it. I'm only a very new player to the forum mafia universe but from what I gather a playstyle like that (and the meta that comes with it) has one very distinctive perk and that's that you can't slip when you draw scum.

The way people go after hypersomniaclive for allegedly misrepresenting others only can happen when a player is actually involved. When you go for the one joke/snarky comment per real live day and one suspicion and according vote per game day, it just can't happen. And that's a pretty huge perk and I assume that's why flubs chose this playstyle. Also you don't make for an attractive nightkill when being town. So good on all fronts.
But the one downside of it is, that when there's no overly scummy lynchpick for the day, one tends to be a fallback lynch and since he knows that and doesn't change the way he plays I guess he's ok with that.

Nobody likes to be lynched, but apparently the perks outweigh the drawback for him and so I don't feel bad when voting for flubbucket today as I don't believe the other wagons to be more likely to hit scum. HSL may really have a powerrole as he insinuated and if the pause during the night isn't enough for him to "recover" from reallive stuff then we'll get a pretty active and involved (as in scumhunting) replacement. Apart from the one time lying you come across fairly townie to me aswell (though I would be back at your wagon for that in an instant) and the third wagon with more than one vote is for Ix. Well Ix I can't really read that well, but as he's been described as floundering Town and I couldn't find that much scummy things in his posts (apart from voting for anything that isn't in the trees by the count of three) I guess I won't be voting for him today except when he's the only choice to prevent no-lynch.


As for the list I do think it does something to it. When we get one or two "pinned down" scum to flip town or even a "confirmed" townie to flip scum it's disproved beyond doubt. And we can finally drop that notion of having broken the game via one word.
If on the other hand we get one or two scum flips from that list, I say we go on that way (with the help of our powerroles) and have a short and glorious town win :D

Jesters do....

There's a great deal of assumption in these statements.

That's true. one town flip of the "pinned down" scum team in that list wouldn't be enough to disprove it, but with two flips that shouldn't flip this way if the list were correct and the game truly broken, I'm quite sure we can discard it and rely on the usual scumhunting techniques + investigative roles to play the rest of the game.

You know, smrt is actually death in czech.
Is it actually threat? :-p

I can't say I like the way you look at things. Lynching by the list with the goal of disproving it by hitting Townies? I'd have felt better if you were going after the chance of actually hitting scum, but specifically gunning for Townies just to disprove someone's theory?

I would never threaten you.



Bring it up again and I'll smack your teeth out!!!!

When you sit and contemplate it, what is "alive??"

I may be wrong, I may be not. I may understand, I may not. I'll soon see. I for one don't know the thoughts that flow through your head, nonsense that you think may be a legitimate thing may actually not. All I know is that you bring less than nothing to the table. You can't even give proper explanations or reasons. You're here throwing statements into the air and expecting me to take them for granted. Since the very dawn of your first vote you failed to give one explanation or reason. Either terrible town play or scum theatrics. I bet on the second.

That's not the goal I'm looking for and I think I made that rather clear. Have you actually read my posts or only that one answer I was giving flubs in response to him saying I made alot of assumptions in that last paragraph he quoted? I read it again and saw that one could read it as if I were to discard rwarehalls theory by just one assumed scum flipping town. So I replied that it would take two wrong flips (either alignment is fine for that, as I've also pointed out in my voting post) to convince me of that. But I'm not saying we should go for a "confirmed" townie first, since rwarehall might be right after all.

As I've (I hope) made clear in my posts I am aiming at lynching scum! But if we actually don't hit scum going by that list, at least we have the benefit of "unbreaking" the game and getting people like vitek and rwarehall to properly play again.
Of the list, I just took the first (after crew whom I don't want to vote for on her first day) but before voting I reread anything posted by flubs and thought we stand a good chance of hitting scum with him. Nothing he wrote since has made me reassass that assumption.