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General discussionForum Mafia #31: Crisis at Space Station Epsilon(2361 posts)(2361 posts)
(2361 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 16, 2015
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drealmer7: I was asking if the value of a no-lynch potentially had more value NOW than it did AT THE BEGINNING.
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JMich: Twice as much. Too bad its value started at 0.
Yep, I got you. Thanks, and really, sorry my approach has upset you so much. This is the sort of feedback I was looking for, from everyone. I personally don't think the value is zero, at the beginning or now, but I also don't necessarily think it is worth enough to do it anyway (which is why I haven't voted that way, not once), but I don't think it is zero either.

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JMich: I do not have a problem with anyone discussing no lynch. I do have a problem with anyone who cannot explain why they think no lynch (or any other plan they bring to the table) is a good idea.
I am not voting you for suggesting no lynch. I am voting you for not saying why you think no lynch is an idea worth discussing. Just as I would vote for someone who votes for X, then does not say why he voted for X when asked.
Okay, but you do seem to have an issue with my uncertainty about the topic, which is why I'm trying to discuss it. Am I not allowed to be uncertain in my position/not have it fully solidified yet? I believe all ideas are worth discussing, and probably re-discussing. It's a way to be thorough, especially since not everyone contributed to the topic.
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JMich: It is quite possible that I have missed something that would make me reevaluate my stance on no lynch. I assume it is something you saw, thus why you went back to proposing no lynch. I asked for clarification. You denied clarifying, and did the equivalent of waving your arms around to make it go away. I asked again.
I didn't see anything specific that made me think it was more viable now, if I did, I would have said so, definitely. I simply thought it MIGHT be, simply because more time had gone by and more "stuff" had happened, people had voted, and because I am completely new to all of this and so my position isn't as solid as yours.

I wasn't meaning to propose no-lynch, which is possibly why we are having contention now, simple misunderstanding (though, I don't know how you misunderstood that, really, and, makes me think you're taunting/baiting/messing with me trying to make me seem suspicious or whatever else, and I find this intruder-like, so my vote for you stays.)

I can provide a lot of hypothesizing, but they are not solidified thoughts.

If we do a no-lynch now (which, again, I am NOT proposing we do with this line of thought, it's simply a line of thought, not a call for action), I think we might be able to analyze why the person was killed overnight moreso than we could have analyzed it if the no-lynch came wayyy earlier in the day, based on who voted for who, who tried to "push what wagon" etc. I really don't know that it would be more helpful, or, even if it were more helpful than it would have been previously, if it is still enough help to warrant doing.

Do you think at this point we are more likely to vote for a real intruder than we were at the beginning? I think so, and so think we should probably try and figure out who to vote for.

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drealmer7: Does anyone else have any input?
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dedoporno: I do. Nothing changed drastically for the no-lynch to become viable now. The only difference from the beginning is that we have a supposed Tracker available which isn't the most useful of roles at this point. The downsides of no-lynching that have been repeated over and over again still apply.

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drealmer7: You're not contributing, you are simply criticizing me for what I am trying to contribute and for me trying to simply have a discussion.
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dedoporno: Are you contributing, though? So far I heard mostly "no lynch" and that pretty much everyone is a suspect from you. And talking a whole lot doesn't automatically count for contributing.
I did try to contribute all I had to offer. I'm sorry it wasn't more helpful to the situation, I knew it wouldn't be very contributory because of how back and forth I was with my thoughts, which is why I asked for others input who have more experience. I thought all of that was clear.

Thanks for your input that it hasn't become more viable to any degree. I appreciate it.
Posted October 16, 2015
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yogsloth: But who's got the political will to put together a new wagon?
I'll bite.

Vote Vitek

I wanted to do it last time and didn't. I almost wasn't going to this time because the "wagon" on Vitek (at least before JMich got off) was the exact same one as before (plus Crewdroog). But I suppose that's an even better reason to make up for what I didn't do before.

And if he does flip scum, I get the added benefit of feeling better about Crewdroog.

But let's be honest, we all know we're just going to hem and haw with a split vote until the deadline, at which point there will be a massive bandwagon to just lynch me.
Posted October 16, 2015
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Ixamyakxim: And if he does flip scum, I get the added benefit of feeling better about Crewdroog.
Unless she joined the vote for Vitek knowing he was scum to try and draw suspicion away from her being an intruder, too, figuring he would get the vote to be lynched and flip intruder because he had 4 and the next closest votes were 1.
Posted October 16, 2015
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drealmer7: I personally don't think the value is zero, at the beginning or now
Good. So of what value is no lynch to the group as a whole? You do claim it has value. What is said value? You are not asking us if no lynch has value, you say you think it has. What value does no lynch have? What value did it have at the beginning of Day 1, what value does it have now?

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drealmer7: I think we might be able to analyze why the person was killed overnight moreso than we could have analyzed it if the no-lynch came wayyy earlier in the day, based on who voted for who, who tried to "push what wagon" etc. I really don't know that it would be more helpful, or, even if it were more helpful than it would have been previously, if it is still enough help to warrant doing.
There are 3 main reasons to select someone for the night kill. Target is a danger to mafia, target is butting heads with another townie, target doesn't participate. Main reason to choose the third kind of target is due to lack of information. If someone who had little to no interaction is killed, town gains little info from them.
First and second reason to choose are harder for town to identify. Was the person killed because the one he was suspicious of is scum, or is the one he's suspicious of town, made to look like a scum under pressure?
A lynch wagon means there is additional info to analyze, which may help town distinguish between the two cases.
Posted October 16, 2015
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trentonlf: Are you firm on agentcarr or is there anyone else who is tickling your scumdar?
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CarrionCrow: At the moment, I've got three people who are doing that. I haven't gone point by point on it because it comes down to how they've spoken is rubbing me the wrong way, and I know I'll need more information to lay out for other people. Not expecting players to get behind taking someone out on gut feeling.
I am not one to ask for a list of suspects from people, to me that just gives scum an chance to change how they are playing if enough people list them, but if you have something you are finding off about one person above others don't hesitate to mention it. Only way town wis is if we work together.

For me I am still not sold on mchack being town (and as I said before it's not only based on PM info), but I don't thing there is anyway he gets lynched today because the mod stepped in. Based on what limited info (basically none) we have right now my top suspect is hard to say. I have two people I need to look at more closely.
Posted October 16, 2015
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drealmer7: I personally don't think the value is zero, at the beginning or now
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JMich: Good. So of what value is no lynch to the group as a whole? You do claim it has value. What is said value? You are not asking us if no lynch has value, you say you think it has. What value does no lynch have? What value did it have at the beginning of Day 1, what value does it have now?
We definitely wouldn't mistakenly eliminate a crewmember. That in and of itself has value, doesn't it? Keeping our numbers higher. I thought this was obvious and why I hadn't stated it before.

This doesn't mean that it has MORE value than voting to lynch someone, but it does have something to it, in my opinion. Even if that something is not better than another option.
Posted October 16, 2015
Bump because I think the "new page" bug just ate something and I don't want to see a double-post.
Posted October 16, 2015
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yogsloth: Bump because I think the "new page" bug just ate something and I don't want to see a double-post.
It is an annoying as hell bug too, I know somethings there and can't see it :-/
Posted October 16, 2015
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yogsloth: Bump because I think the "new page" bug just ate something and I don't want to see a double-post.
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trentonlf: It is an annoying as hell bug too, I know somethings there and can't see it :-/
Especially for the one who entered it! Thanks for the bump!~ I'm sitting here going (and it happened before, too) "uhhh, hello, log entry? are you there!? did the elves eat you?"



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trentonlf: I am not one to ask for a list of suspects from people, to me that just gives scum an chance to change how they are playing if enough people list them,
Which is what I did to you at the beginning of the game, possibly, and why it feels to me that you've changed a bit from the beginning. Just noting it for future, really. I have no hard leanings either way.
Posted October 16, 2015
EBWOLog-Entry

"GAME?!?!" This is no "game"!!! This is a dire situation of life and death!!!
Posted October 16, 2015
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drealmer7: We definitely wouldn't mistakenly eliminate a crewmember. That in and of itself has value, doesn't it?
No. It doesn't.
Town requires information in order to win. By not lynching someone, we end up with less information than if we did.
Take a look at the reasons I gave for my votes. The Vitek one was a policy vote (he did lie, even if he meant well), the reason I voted for you was because I felt you weren't answering questions. Are those the reasons of an intruder trying to lynch a crew member, or of a crew member seeing someone as an intruder? Then wait and see what other reasons I'll have down the line.
At this point in time, there is no way to know for sure which one I am. Should either of you flip though, and your alignment becomes known, you do have more info that can help you identify me as on of the two factions. Similar to how if I die, my reasons can be reevaluated, since my alignment would be known.
Posted October 16, 2015
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drealmer7: We definitely wouldn't mistakenly eliminate a crewmember. That in and of itself has value, doesn't it?
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JMich: No. It doesn't.
Town requires information in order to win. By not lynching someone, we end up with less information than if we did.
Take a look at the reasons I gave for my votes. The Vitek one was a policy vote (he did lie, even if he meant well), the reason I voted for you was because I felt you weren't answering questions. Are those the reasons of an intruder trying to lynch a crew member, or of a crew member seeing someone as an intruder? Then wait and see what other reasons I'll have down the line.
At this point in time, there is no way to know for sure which one I am. Should either of you flip though, and your alignment becomes known, you do have more info that can help you identify me as on of the two factions. Similar to how if I die, my reasons can be reevaluated, since my alignment would be known.
Yes, I really do completely understand, and have, how it all works. I didn't mean to derail the conversation, either really. I just wanted to get that feedback about it since the "day" has been going on for so long and because I have little experience with how it all "plays." (see, even with all the time that has gone, I'm starting to learn your lingo a bit more!)

I guess I should have realized that if it were something to discuss after so long, a more experienced player would have come along and talked about it/proposed it/simply voted it, and there was no need for me to try and prompt discussion for it.

I think we've beat this to death more than enough, and, again I did not intend to derail or cause contention, really. Let's get back to the focus on who the intruder is.

I still do think Vitek is a viable option, but not as much as a few others at this point. And really have no idea, just as at the beginning, since that is just how it goes with no information.
Posted October 16, 2015
It is time to do my own OMGUS?

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Ixamyakxim: I wanted to do it last time and didn't. I almost wasn't going to this time because the "wagon" on Vitek (at least before JMich got off) was the exact same one as before (plus Crewdroog). But I suppose that's an even better reason to make up for what I didn't do before.
And do you remember why you said you almost did it? Only because I was only viable wagon besides yours. That's not very good reason at all.
You don't even think I am scummy. You once said you had very minor concern with me but jumped on HSL(?) because you thought he is trying to cast suspicion on me and defended me elsewhere as well I believe.
So why is that you are voting me? Only becaue I already have some votes, right? There is no other reason?

Have my vote, Ixamyakxim, when you desire it so much.
I only unvoted you because of mchack troubles. I admit I started to waver a bit when you almost disappeared from the game and therefore from my mind as well but you made return in big style and I don't have issue with voting you.

Other than that I would be easily willing to vote RWarehall. I could possibly vote Crew, HSL or drealmer but it would need more convincing as I am not that sure about them.
Posted October 16, 2015
I will try this one more time myself. I find it very difficult to not keep trying – I wonder how lurkers and no-voties do it.

My original post here still stands as a testament of evaluation of the early part of the Day.

He mostly had fun with his own wagon, but distanced himself a bit from the game for a while until his wagon fell apart and transferred to agent. That could be a figment of my imagination looking back over the actual post count, but that was the impression I had at the time.

He’s managed to cast serious votes for six different players (me, RW, HSL, agent, Krypsyn, and now Vitek). This is probably the biggest crime at this point – spraying votes on anything that might stick, and finally settling on the only wagon looking potentially roll-worthy at this moment… all the while also attempting to actively cast doubt on crewdroog as well. I don’t think there are seven Scum in the game.

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Ixamyakxim: But let's be honest, we all know we're just going to hem and haw with a split vote until the deadline, at which point there will be a massive bandwagon to just lynch me.
OK, why wait?

Vote Ixamyakxim

And I take the best chance with what I’ve got. Unless someone does something dramatic to shoot themselves in the foot, or there’s some other unforeseen twist, I think I park it here and learn as much as we can and then start Day 2 for better or for worse.

_____

Pre-post edit: It took me about 45 minutes dicking around to write this while working, and I see Vitek has voted as well. We'll see how it goes.
Posted October 16, 2015
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Vitek: It is time to do my own OMGUS?
And do you remember why you said you almost did it? Only because I was only viable wagon besides yours. That's not very good reason at all.
You don't even think I am scummy. You once said you had very minor concern with me but jumped on HSL(?)
I know, I really don't find you *that* scummy. I found that exchange with mchack slightly interesting, but not very and I really didn't think you were on the worst end of it.

I think pushing the wagon is helpful, and I think drawing attention to myself (another viable lynch) in the process is helpful. We really need a lynch at this point, so let's get it done.

I still do think what I originally pointed out about HSL is viable, and if I do go down I think you should revisit it.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #31: Crisis at Space Station Epsilon(2361 posts)(2361 posts)
(2361 posts)