At this point, it seems preferable versus putting a .38 in my mouth and blowing the back of my head off.

Marginally.

Wild Turkey 101, neat
Gin martini (Bombay Sapphire or Tanqueray, depending on mood), straight up with olives
Whatever local beer on is tap (usually IPA or Wit, occasionally an ESB or Stout)
Occasionally, Glenmorangie Lasanta (12 year Sherry Cask single-malt Whisky).

Stout, yes please. Ipa, yuck.

I'd say I remembered the first time I had wild turkey when I was 18 and visiting colleges, but more accurate to say I only remember bits and pieces, albeit some really fun bits and pieces.

I'm quite surprised that some automatically assumed that a claim similar to the OP Role Example had to be a false one. Just because the OP Role Example does not include the term "Station". And that it took the mod's intervention to clear this up.

But even without the mod's intervention, I think that some of you have missed (some still miss?) something important about the OP Role Example. Yes, I have a point, and no, it's not about the term "Station".

I hope we can all agree that the OP Role Example is not irrelevant to the game we're playing. I mean, if it had nth to do with it, then it would mean that the mod deliberately misled everyone, wouldn't it? Why would he do that? And if he misled everyone with the OP, what assurance do we have that he hasn't done so with our PMs?
I think we can safely disregard this possibility, unless someone wants to present logical arguments in support of it.

If the OP Role Example has nth to do with the Town PM, what would that mean? That the mod put up the Mafia PM? Don't you think that it would make things too easy for us as it would be giving us an (unfair) advantage and screwing over scum from the get-go? But even without this, there's the win-condition which nobody seems to have taken into account [emphasis added]: Does anyone want to argue that this may be the win-condition of a third-party (just to take all possibilities into account)? I don't think it is, so can someone explain to me, in a logical way, why the Mafia's win-condition would be to eliminate themselves?

With agentcarr16's claim, and everything that followed, isn't it possible that the Town PM may come in more than one flavours regarding wording and formatting of name and rank? And isn't it possible that the mod did it so that we can't play the PM game?

Now, yogsloth suggested that the mod may have messed up with the PMs; the mod's intervention doesn't seem to support this, so I don't know. If it is the case, then I'd appreciate it if the mod would come clean, but then I'd like him to also explain what the deal is with the wording and formatting of the OP Role Example.



Selective reading and purposeful misinterpreting? Inexperience? Not sure yet, but I like how you single out one of the reasons I gave for my vote, and twisted it in order to make your case.

You may not agree with my reasons; that’s fine, it’s not mandatory, though that poses the question – are my reasons not good enough because Ixamyakxim’s stance on the points I addressed find you in agreement?
Trying to make it look like I had no reasons just to paint me in a bad light puts at least a question-mark next to your name.



I'd like to hear what makes you so certain that we "know". As far as I've read we have his claim, and some PM-based arguments that were disproved as evidence, and thus rendered pretty useless as reason enough to clear or condemn anyone. Do you have any, non PM-based knowledge that makes you use such a definite term?



As I've not been able to follow the game as things unfolded, I'm a bit overwhelmed by everything that's going on - from a wagon on agentcarr16 to one on mchack to lots of unvoting. And now yogsloth seems to be in favour of No-Lynch, with agentcarr16 also supporting it. agencarr16 seems to be in favour of No-Lynch just to end D1, and it looks like yogsloth has no other, or better, reasons either.

I have to do a re-read and re-evaluate things, but I'm pretty tired and I'd like to do it with a clear head.

Oh man, I would hate to be him, mixed in with a bunch of fantasy people.
Oh wait…

regarding no-lynch: I had posted a comment+question about it yesterday
here. Thena bunch of stuff unfolded.

With the little experience that I have, I have a few lines of thought surrounding the idea, and I'm not sure which way to go. I do know that I will not let the backlash about the idea influence whether I am going to vote that way or not (I was thinking I would unvote Vitek when I got up and Vote No-lynch, before any one else mentioned it, but, I'm uncertain at this point so haven't changed yet. It is tempting.)

I am interested in what people who are more familiar with how things go to give their feedback about a no-lynch at this point. The only response I got to it before was essentially the exact same question posed back to me by a veteran to me , a novice

(I found this response a little fishy, honestly; was he trying to bait me into more rambling of uninformed thoughts to upset people? but of course there could be multiple reasons why JMich responded as he did, so, I'm not reading too much into it.)

It's a simple question. Do you (the general you, all of you) think there would be MORE value now to a no-lynch than had we done it way earlier in the day, or is it still as value-less as you found it from the outset? What is the value? Whatever thoughts anyone has about the subject I'd like to hear.

On the surface, it seems like there would certainly be MORE value doing it now than had we done it before, but, is that a significant enough value to do it, or, will it be more worthwhile to actually try and get an intruder on the first day with a possible fail? With how much activity has happened, it might be more or less valuable to do it, depending, and I'm really not sure. I go back and forth and all around about it, and want to hear what others think, I don't think I have enough experience to get a full idea of it all or that sharing my thoughts is very helpful.

I've been presenting them from the very beginning. This A.I. is whacked and we should all vote QuadrAlien and see what happens (even though they weren't registering for him!)
I've thought this from very early on (we can't assume there was any "format" at all) and I think this is why I took no issue with the "inconsistancies" that a handful were jumping on as tells to make them vote. I found the behavior to jump on such assumptions much more telling, and, watching all of that unfold was, very, very interesting.

I'd prefer if the mod stayed completely out of it at this point. I feel like everything is "even" and that it was handled quite well.

I'd like more people's perspectives on the thoughts posed in log entries 1026+1027 - does anyone wish to discuss this further, oorrr, should we not talk about the possible black sheep of the group/if there is one?




What? What? What was that? Am I hearing voices? I think like I'm hearing voices from another world!

Unofficial vote count, cuz somebody gotta do it:

Vitek: 4 (JMich, mchack, drealmer7, crewdroog)
Ixamyakxim: 1 (HypersomniacLive)
trentonlf: 1 (flubbucket)
agentcarr16: 1 (carrioncrow)
yogsloth: 1 ( RWarehall)
RWarehall: 1 (Krypsyn)
crewdroog: 1 (HijacK)
no-lynch: 1 (Bozo the Clown)

Not voting: trentonlf, Ixamyakxim, agentcarr16, Vitek, dedoporno

Thank you for the update. Quad seemed a bit preoccupied earlier, you going to the trouble is appreciated.

Ummm... What on earth are you trying to do here?

I don't think anyone assumed a claim was false just[/b[ because it was different than the OP. It was also the fact that I claimed differently than the OP and that the 'anyone' also had a PM different than the OP. So when someone's claim is identical to the OP and different than that of several Town players, there seems to be an obvious assumption here. An assumption that is based on a mistake, yes, but still an obvious assumption.

And what about the mod's intervention makes you think that it was intentional? He calls it an 'issue' which indicates that it was unintentional.

Please don't take this wrong, but if I read you correctly, the point you wanted to make is that the mod did the different formats so we can't play the PM game. Is that right?

drealmer7: Do you (the general you, all of you) think there would be MORE value now to a no-lynch than had we done it way earlier in the day, or is it still as value-less as you found it from the outset? What is the value? Whatever thoughts anyone has about the subject I'd like to hear.

The way I see it, we've had a few different wagons unfold on Day 1 and we're back to sitting around staring at each other. If we went to night immediately, we'd have some kind of flip in the morning (though probably a WIFOM one) and presumably some night actions (presumably because it's possible that the nightkill is me).

I'd still prefer that we lynch someone, so we have more information, but I'm willing to vote no-lynch if I think it will actually hit a majority.

drealmer7: I've thought this from very early on (we can't assume there was any "format" at all) and I think this is why I took no issue with the "inconsistancies" that a handful were jumping on as tells to make them vote.

Those 'inconsistencies' are sometimes a very powerful way of finding scum. It's why there are specific rules in place that prevent players from directly quoting their PMs. You're new, so I'm not surprised you don't realize this, but you should have been able to realize that, if a 'handful' of veterans are so eager to vote based on inconsistencies, there must be something to them.

My perspective on anti-town, non-scum roles is...

Whatever. I'm not one, so I don't really care. If we lynch them, great. If they manage to win by surviving, props. Otherwise, I'll worry if we have multiple nightkills tonight.

yogsloth: Unofficial vote count, cuz somebody gotta do it:
...
<vote>
...
agentcarr16: 1 (CarrionCrow)
...
<snip>

Am I really down to 1 vote? I must have missed some.

Oh, and CarrionCrow, care to explain why you're still voting me? (Yes, I'm being aggressive. I feel like it.)


About investigating me...

I wouldn't be adverse to being investigated, as then I would be confirmed Town. However, because I've claimed a power role, I am held to providing accurate information, as RWarehall points out. So you may not know about me, but I've got a knife to my back to perform now, so an investigation seems superfluous.
I think HijacK has a good perspective on this.

11 minutes, so should be safe...


Wow. Dang.

That's what comes when you type your own formatting marks.

And does anyone else love the fact that [i]italics[/i[ doesn't even register with the forum,
but bold[/b[ appears and won't leave...

So basically, two topics...
1) No-lynch
The real problem with this is as follows....
So let's say we don't lynch today, what happens next?
So someone dies tonight...
And tomorrow we are discussing what different exactly?
Unless someone gets lucky with an investigative ability and reveals it, which is no certainty, we are in the same boat we are in today, with one more person dead, likely someone who's death won't give us any useful information. If we can't make a decision today, what makes anyone think we will make a decision tomorrow?

As to investigations...
Investigating someone you think is a townie, in order to confirm he's a townie, isn't very helpful.
Let's take, for example, AgentCarr. So we can trust what he claims...but remember, besides his claimed ability, he presumably is still town, which means he is part of the uninformed majority. He can think someone is town or scum, but just like any other town, he has no special knowledge we don't outside of his ability.

So, there might be a little advantage being "sure" he is town, but here's the next problem...the investigator has no reason to reveal this to us. So, you investigate AgentCarr and prove he is town. Do you reveal yourself and risk getting killed at night? To tell us that? I sure hope not. And on top of that, at the end of the day, we can trust anything he had to say, without any investigation, the day he shows up dead.

On the other hand, let's say you investigate someone you really suspect might be scum...if you are right, jackpot...but even if you find out he's town, you have learned more than you would have confirming a likely townie as town. Even if its not important enough to reveal to the rest of us, you have gained more from it.

So I stick to my statement...it's always better to use your abilities to hunt scum than with the intent to confirm town, because confirming a townie is just confirming someone with as little real knowledge as you.


As to the rest of the game...I have an idea, but I won't say it unless I'm on the brink...
If you find this scummy...vote for me...
If you don't...vote for me...

This whole paragraph makes the huge mistake of assuming that the potential investigator of agent thinks agent is town. One may not believe agent is town in spite of his claimed role. Someone like Carion might not think he is town, for example. Once again: different perspectives, different actions.

Why are you wanting to get to the brink of a lynch? You end your post by asking everyone to vote for you whether they find you scummy or not. This is a very odd request, why would you want to take the chance of getting lynched ?

Love the fact that you write 3 paragraphs, yet still fail to answer the question. So let me ask again, what would we gain from a no lynch? You proposed a plan (no lynch), and I fail to see how it would benefit us. So I play devil's advocate and ask you to elaborate. You don't. You make excuses and post fluff.
Oh, and just because all this wiggling is making me really nervous, unvote Vitek, vote drealmer7. At least until you answer the question, then vote will depend on your answer.