Yeah. While the reaction from other players certainly couldn't have been faked the fact they both voted for each other and then unvoted each other (despite the reasons they gave for voting still being valid) seems a tad sus... but it's difficult to separate the votes from the argument and say whether it would have happened if there had been no blow up and it could just be a genuine interaction rather then some kind of staged set up by scum to create distance..

My bullshit meter is rising. But it's you, so no surprise there.

Let us examine the situation:

Unvote BlueMooner
Vote Adalia

How would that even work? Unless I missed something, we can't PM anybody, right? So wouldn't it be all but impossible to arrange something like that?

You will set it up in your scum chat quicktopic.

What flub said, it's only possible if they are scum, (and presumably if they also had scum chat open during the day) so the fact it looks contrived is a sign (although a small one) they may be scum.

OMG OMGUS!
Predictable HijacK as usual...

Hotchicksville!! Sorry, couldn't resist :P



Damn! Do you have experience as a politician? If not, you should consider it. Such moves are invaluable in that field.



Is this just an experiment or does it have weight?



@Books, When I said I'm not confident enough in voting for you I had in mind exactly the fact that you didn't actually push towards Yog's lynch even though you expressed your dislike in his actions. This is at least from what I remember that I re-read some time ago. Going back to check is probably a good idea.

I will do a reread of my earlier posts, but that does sound more like the position I remember than JMich's stated pushing for his lynch.
I do still really dislike his actions, but can't really see him not being town (if he is scum and we have a town cop, then why not counter claim and we get a 1 for 1 trade? It's basically the best outcome that could be hoped for in the situation) so I won't vote for him and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to vote for him.
What I will say is, I don't know whether he is telling the truth or not, but I have reason to believe (beyond the usual) that his claimed role exists in the game. As no one else has counter claimed, I won't be voting for the person who appears to be our town cop.

emphasis added

Apart from the “without looking at contributions” part (more on this a bit later), that was also my point, but with the added note that he has a "Leaning Scum" list, so I'd expect him to follow his own advice instead of pushing for "Lynch All Lurkers" that comes with the possible dangers I mentioned. Not much different from what you said in your post #422.
Yet somehow when you make the argument it's a valid one, but when I make it you don't like it... and in order to give your disagreement the guise of validity, you take what I said out of context and present it as if I advocate "leave all lurkers alone", period.

As for the "without looking at contributions too" part - as mchack already said, he did give credit to Sage103082 in his post #415, and he has Lifthrasil in his "Neutral" group.

I wonder if you really don't get how his groups work and link to each other, or only pretend to not get it to fit your arguments.
Aside from what mchahck already mentioned, yougsloth himself said when he voted you (emphasis added): Now why would he say that with you listed second in his "Leaning Scum" group?
So yes, yogsloth did put his money where his mouth is when he voted CSPVG, and when he voted you.

Plenty of arguing, plenty of reasoning, plenty of "dissecting" that is supported by missing/ overlooking things, taking things out of context, some underplaying, perhaps even some twisting. I'm leaning more towards "some eyebrow-raising, not helping, definitely a distraction", but looking at the viable wagons and with No-Lynch not being an option, I:

Vote HijacK



According to yogsloth's reply to Sage103082, that was not a reference/ description of himself.



Pretty sure this did not escape the edit elves.



In addition to what adaliabooks said in his reply to you, a scenario could be that if both yogsloth and CSPVG are on the same scum team and assuming that the incident was genuine (Sage103082 and trentonlf's were not part of it, so their reactions were also genuine), it's possible that yogsloth saw an opportunity in that incident, seized it. CSPVG got the message and followed.

Right, as promised I've reread my posts to see why JMich seems to think I want yogs lynched.

And I've mellowed slightly on him as I can see why he would think that a little. My original reaction to yogs' actions was that it was a joke (similar to the times he claimed to be scum etc. in the milk game and others) and that as such it was worthy of lynching him (for lying if nothing else). When he assured us this was a genuine claim I re-evaluated the situation and realised it was probably unlikely for him to be scum and (while his behaviour and posts since have done little to stop me from wanting to lynch him) I can't condone putting a vote on him today.

Hopefully that clarifies my position a little.

The more interesting side of this interaction is that the more experienced player who, as previously discussed, was aware of "The Speech" for some time now was spared the preach in favor of the newbie who may or may not have known better. I know HijacK said he doesn't cut slack to new players (it was nicely presented as a good think, too) but it did feel OMGUS-y back then and also a bit of going after the easier prey.

Is this current??

yogsloth - 5

HijacK - 4

According to my own count:

4 HijacK (Yogsloth, McHack, adaliabooks, HypersomniacLive)
4 Yogsloth (Trentonlf, Flubbucket, Lifthrasil, BlueMooner)
2 Adaliabooks (JMich, Krypsyn)
1 No-Lynch (AgentCarr16)
1 CSPVG (Cristigale)
1 BlueMooner (HijacK)

I could have misplaced a vote, but who is the 5th vote on yogsloth?

How? The fact that he wasn't nightkilled will tell you nothing about his alignment. Sure, if he is town cop, scum might want to kill him some time soon. But with as much confusion as he created, they might as well just keep him around. Conversely, if he is scum, he will of course not be nightkilled, but he can claim to have been roleblocked or he can claim to have investigated and cleared one of his fellow scum or whatever. So his survival of the night would tell exactly nothing about his alignment.


OK, friend. You really should learn to read and to count. In the post you quote, I mention agentcarr, CSPVG and cristi as feeling scummy. That's three. Out of sixteen! That's not exactly 'most of the roster'. You seem to misrepresent what I wrote. Possibly even intentionally.
You also misrepresent what I wrote about your action. You leave out half of what I wrote. Probably again intentionally. For the unlikely case that you actually didn't understand what I wrote, I'll repeat it step by step.
1. Either you are Town Cop, or you are not. ... There are really only these two possibilities!
2. That means, either your claim was true or it was a lie ... again simple logic and no further possibilities.
3a. If your claim was true, it was as the same time outrageously stupid to sacrifice a town cop without need.
3b. If your claim was false, you are a liar and Lynch all Liars becomes valid.
3c ...because you are then either lying town, which again would be very stupid, or you are lying scum.
Conclusion: you either are scum or you have made a very stupid play. And since I don't think that you are stupid, that leaves the conclusion that you are scum by simple exclusion principle.

Your attempt at misrepresenting what I wrote twice and trying to throw dirt around actually makes me more conviced of your scumminess!


Now I am intrigued. You write that you see HijacK as more towny than last game. And then you vote for him. Sure, avoiding a no-lynch is good. But HijacK isn't exactly the only no-lynch-avoiding target out there. So please elaborate on why you chose HijacK over Yog!
(No, I don't want to pressure you into voting Yog. Just explain your reasons. Perhaps you have seen something I haven't)


You are actually right. This double standard seems quite suspicious. Especially since I would expect a town HijacK to be all over someone who actually votes no-lynch, after it was already explained why no-lynch is a bad idea.
...ah well, that last paragraph kind of invalidates the question to adalia, since he can just say 'Yea, exactly. I saw that too' ... But perhaps you have something more, adalia? My request still stands, please explain your vote more in detail!

As for me, I now understand the suspicion some of you have of HijacK, but I'm still not sure if he isn't just his old, agressive town self or whether he has learned to hide behind his old self. But if it's the choice between no-lynch and lynching HijacK, I'll choose HijacK over a no-lynch. But for now I'll stick with Yogs, because, as explained above, I still see him as the scummiest player and I kind of hope that we can agree to lynch him


To RW: can we haz votecount well before deadline, please?

As will I. I unvoted him and moved my vote back to adaliabooks because the way HijacK knee-jerk called me scum for voting for him was just so much what I expected, in both timing and temperance. However, as i noted, I still do find his reasons for voting for BlueMooner questionable, at best. If my vote on adaliabooks becomes obviously untenable to attain a lynch, I will move my vote again.

Those of you who played with the 'kinder, gentler, more JMich-like" HijacK in the last game: did he ever do this sort of knee-jerk OMGUS thing in that game?