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General discussionForum Mafia #30: Murder They Wrote(1351 posts)(1351 posts)
(1351 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: I'm sorry, but I don't see how lynching Town because they lie is especially pro-Town.
There are such things as a Policy Lynch. I am not certain it would apply in this situation regarding yogsloth, however.
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: I'm sorry, but I don't see how lynching Town because they lie is especially pro-Town.
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Krypsyn: There are such things as a Policy Lynch. I am not certain it would apply in this situation regarding yogsloth, however.
That's true, but our hypothetical situation was involved a player that had been 100% confirmed Town, and that had lied.



BTW, I wrote the earlier part of my last post before refreshing and seeing Lifthrasil's post. Then I forgot to go back and edit in light of the new information. That is why certain things that I said early in the post don't make sense when you read the later parts of my post. Just so you know.
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: Yes he has made mistakes and played foolish gambits,
Hmm, that's funny. I can't think of any.


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Krypsyn: There are such things as a Policy Lynch. I am not certain it would apply in this situation regarding yogsloth, however.
That's a very odd thing to bring up.

Did I somehow mis-type my role as "Vengeful Paranoid Gun Owner Nexus" or something?
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: That's true, but our hypothetical situation was involved a player that had been 100% confirmed Town, and that had lied
Even if a player is 100% town and lied, I would be tempted to lynch them. I think a supposedly town player lying is so anti-town as to be actively scummy; spreading misinformation is the role of scum, not town (certain gambits do get a pass here). Now, there might be better target than the lying townie, in which case I would vote for the better target, but in the absence of other targets, I think that 100% town player would need to die for gross misconduct.

But, alas, as much as I would love to lynch yogsloth on principle, I don't think gross misconduct is one of his sins this time around. ;)
Posted September 07, 2015
I knew I should have refreshed before posting... ho hum...

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yogsloth: That's a very odd thing to bring up.

Did I somehow mis-type my role as "Vengeful Paranoid Gun Owner Nexus" or something?
Nope. You merely said you were dealt a certain hand. I am left wondering how many cards were in the deck from which you were dealt, but that is a different subject matter entirely.
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: That seems like a bit of deliberate misunderstanding there. Yes, the case would be stronger if yogsloth was at L-1, but my point stands. The way I read it, Lifthrasil would be perfectly happy if 7 other people jumped on the wagon in the next 15 minutes.

@ Lifthrasil - Is this understanding correct?

I feel that 7 people voting for yogsloth would be a Terrible mistake for Town. Perhaps I should have thrown a few more qualifiers and modifiers into my argument, but I didn't feel it necessary. Maybe I will next time.
I didn't read it the same way. I got, "There's nothing better on the table, I find yogs scummy and he's not in danger of a quick lynch so I'm voting for him to express my dislike and mistrust of his play".

My question to you is, why are you seemingly so sure yogs isn't lying? Why would it be so terrible to lynch him? (The obvious answer is that he is town cop, but that only holds true if you believe that)

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agentcarr16: I disagree that I'm "putting far too much weight on that sentence, and taking it some what out of context..."
I didn't quote the sentence before it, "It wouldn't be good play to ignore such a blatant offering," but that it might have helped my argument. I'm saying that yogsloth isn't stupid enough to make "a blatant offering". Has yogsloth ever made a "blatant offering" just because he felt like it. Yes he has made mistakes and played foolish gambits, but a "blatant offering?" I don't think so.

This is using and building on my Argument #1. If Lifthrasil is 100% sure that yogsloth is anti-town, then yes, he does need to convince the rest of us. Have you seen any convincing? Sorry, but he's basically saying "yogsloth played stupid, so we should lynch him."
Go ahead. Have a field day with how I am 'putting words in Lifthrasil's mouth'.
Problem is, I'm doing it intentionally. That is how I read him. That is why he is scummy.
Lift hasn't made any particular effort to persuade any one else, true, and that is a point against him.
It really depends on your view of yogs and his play. You seem to buy it 100% completely, and I really don't like that. It smacks of collusion, and usually only scum can collude...

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agentcarr16: No, I think that I perfectly understand Lynch All Liars. My point is that Town doesn't lie. If there is someone that I am convinced is Town, I take everything they say as gospel truth.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how lynching Town because they lie is especially pro-Town. Call me crazy, but every Town player is a Town player. I'm glad that you admit that if he was Town and lied, you wouldn't lynch him, but Lifthrasil is saying that if yogsloth was 100% Town and lied, then Lifthrasil would be quite happy to lynch him.
And yogsloth hasn't been proven to have lied. Lifthrasil seems to be quite certain he is lying, but nothing, I repeat, nothing has proved that yogsloth has lied.
So Lifthrasil is quite willing to lynch a player that has maybe lied and is maybe Town. That doesn't sit right.

Again, go ahead. Grumble and Groan about how I'm misunderstanding you and twisting your words and I'm actually scummy, but I'm just saying what I see.
Again. Why are you convinced (your own words) that yogs is town based on claiming cop day 1? What else has he done to make him so town to you?

And as for lynching town for lying or not, Krypsyn has already mentioned a policy lynch, I'm not entirely in favour of something like that but there are times when town players can be more harm then use to town and a policy lynch might be best. I'm not saying yogs is in that position, but when town lie it is bad.
Posted September 07, 2015
Holiday vote count:

2 Yogsloth (Trentonlf, Lifthrasil)
2 Krypsyn (Flubbucket, Krypsyn)
2 Agentcarr16 (Adaliabooks, Hijack)
1 Sage103082 (BlueMooner)
1 HijacK (CSPVG)
1 HypersomniacLive (Cristigale)
1 BlueMooner (Sage103082)

With 16 players alive it takes 9 votes to kick someone off the island and 8 votes to "no-lynch".
Yogsloth, Krypsyn and AgentCarr16 are closest to leaving at L-7.

Not voting: JMich, HypersomniacLive, Yogsloth, Dedoporno, McHack and AgentCarr16

Deadline is in 7 days on Monday Sept 14th at Midnight EDT (UTC -4)
[Extended due to Holidays, Vacations, 16 players and its the first day]

Of course you can always vote someone off before that...hint...hint...
{If I keep repeating this, it may subliminally take effect, how strong is your will?}

Bagatha Chrustie is on holiday...
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: Has yogsloth ever made a "blatant offering" just because he felt like it. Yes he has made mistakes and played foolish gambits, but a "blatant offering?" I don't think so.
His very first game kept rumbling about this wacko tree park hobo theory of how I bused adalia and gave scum an easy lynch. Town still won, but the blatant offering was there.

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agentcarr16: Problem is, I'm doing it intentionally. That is how I read him. That is why he is scummy.
That is why you think he is scummy. That is not why he is. As you can see there is no common consensus in that regard.

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agentcarr16: No, I think that I perfectly understand Lynch All Liars. My point is that Town doesn't lie. If there is someone that I am convinced is Town, I take everything they say as gospel truth.
Ha. You'd be surprised.
Posted September 07, 2015
Timer says 10 minutes have passed.

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yogsloth: Hmm, that's funny. I can't think of any.
That's why I'm here. I can.

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yogsloth: That's a very odd thing to bring up.

Did I somehow mis-type my role as "Vengeful Paranoid Gun Owner Nexus" or something?
Hmmmmm. Might be a good role to claim in one of your games when I'm scum again.

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adaliabooks: And as for lynching town for lying or not, Krypsyn has already mentioned a policy lynch, I'm not entirely in favour of something like that but there are times when town players can be more harm then use to town and a policy lynch might be best.
That's a gruesome overstatement. Whenever a policy lynch arose you were up for it. Not only that but due to differing play styles you also admitted to being all in on policy lynching me because you see me as a threat.
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: That seems like a bit of deliberate misunderstanding there. Yes, the case would be stronger if yogsloth was at L-1, but my point stands. The way I read it, Lifthrasil would be perfectly happy if 7 other people jumped on the wagon in the next 15 minutes.

@ Lifthrasil - Is this understanding correct?

I feel that 7 people voting for yogsloth would be a Terrible mistake for Town. Perhaps I should have thrown a few more qualifiers and modifiers into my argument, but I didn't feel it necessary. Maybe I will next time.
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adaliabooks: I didn't read it the same way. I got, "There's nothing better on the table, I find yogs scummy and he's not in danger of a quick lynch so I'm voting for him to express my dislike and mistrust of his play".

My question to you is, why are you seemingly so sure yogs isn't lying? Why would it be so terrible to lynch him? (The obvious answer is that he is town cop, but that only holds true if you believe that)
In light of Lifthrasil's recent post, I am willing to admit that I understood him wrong.
Basically, at this point I think that I know what he is doing, and if he is doing what I think he is doing, then I think that he is Town Cop. Which is why I think it would be a terrible idea to lynch him.

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agentcarr16: I disagree that I'm "putting far too much weight on that sentence, and taking it some what out of context..."
I didn't quote the sentence before it, "It wouldn't be good play to ignore such a blatant offering," but that it might have helped my argument. I'm saying that yogsloth isn't stupid enough to make "a blatant offering". Has yogsloth ever made a "blatant offering" just because he felt like it. Yes he has made mistakes and played foolish gambits, but a "blatant offering?" I don't think so.

This is using and building on my Argument #1. If Lifthrasil is 100% sure that yogsloth is anti-town, then yes, he does need to convince the rest of us. Have you seen any convincing? Sorry, but he's basically saying "yogsloth played stupid, so we should lynch him."
Go ahead. Have a field day with how I am 'putting words in Lifthrasil's mouth'.
Problem is, I'm doing it intentionally. That is how I read him. That is why he is scummy.
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adaliabooks: Lift hasn't made any particular effort to persuade any one else, true, and that is a point against him.
It really depends on your view of yogs and his play. You seem to buy it 100% completely, and I really don't like that. It smacks of collusion, and usually only scum can collude...

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agentcarr16: No, I think that I perfectly understand Lynch All Liars. My point is that Town doesn't lie. If there is someone that I am convinced is Town, I take everything they say as gospel truth.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how lynching Town because they lie is especially pro-Town. Call me crazy, but every Town player is a Town player. I'm glad that you admit that if he was Town and lied, you wouldn't lynch him, but Lifthrasil is saying that if yogsloth was 100% Town and lied, then Lifthrasil would be quite happy to lynch him.
And yogsloth hasn't been proven to have lied. Lifthrasil seems to be quite certain he is lying, but nothing, I repeat, nothing has proved that yogsloth has lied.
So Lifthrasil is quite willing to lynch a player that has maybe lied and is maybe Town. That doesn't sit right.

Again, go ahead. Grumble and Groan about how I'm misunderstanding you and twisting your words and I'm actually scummy, but I'm just saying what I see.
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adaliabooks: Again. Why are you convinced (your own words) that yogs is town based on claiming cop day 1? What else has he done to make him so town to you?

And as for lynching town for lying or not, Krypsyn has already mentioned a policy lynch, I'm not entirely in favour of something like that but there are times when town players can be more harm then use to town and a policy lynch might be best. I'm not saying yogs is in that position, but when town lie it is bad.
Convinced was not referring to yogsloth. It was hypothetical, referring to something totally different.

I think it would be an incredibly stupid play on scum's part to claim cop in Day 1, Post 1. Of course, by some law or another, it will probably be done now, but I still think it's too risky for yogsloth, which is saying something.
True, Policy Lynches are sometimes best. Not presently, though, in my opinion.


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HijacK: His very first game kept rumbling about this wacko tree park hobo theory of how I bused adalia and gave scum an easy lynch. Town still won, but the blatant offering was there.
I haven't read it. Which game was that?

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HijacK: That is why you think he is scummy. That is not why he is. As you can see there is no common consensus in that regard.
I can see that. And in the name of scumhunting, I was trying to convince other players that he was scummy. I am no longer convinced that he's scummy, so I've stopped.

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HijacK: Ha. You'd be surprised.
Ya, I probably would be. But, hey, it gives me a foundation to play with.
Posted September 07, 2015

In mafia games (other than GoG), the posting of a full sample PM is often standard. Pretty much for the reasons you've already speculated on. In terms of scum advantage, I'd rather town lynches them for the lies themselves instead of getting the secret handshake wrong.
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HypersomniacLive: I've not played mafia outside of GOG. Does this standard apply only to the Town PM?
Yes, it is pretty much always a town PM, often "Vanilla".

It helps prevent such brilliant town "investigations" such as asking...
"In the second sentence what is the third word in your PM"...or...
"Is word X in your PM"...or...
"How many sentences do you have"

And in many set-ups, the scum are supposedly already blended in, as such should be privy to the basics of why everyone is in the game.
Posted September 07, 2015
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HijacK: That's a gruesome overstatement. Whenever a policy lynch arose you were up for it. Not only that but due to differing play styles you also admitted to being all in on policy lynching me because you see me as a threat.
I'm sorry, but that's a load of bollocks and you know it.
I admit to being willing to policy lynch you because I find you to usually be wrong, distracting and annoying, not because I find you a threat.
As for me being a policy lynch, the only time that could possibly being true was last game, and that was actually part of my play so I'm not sure it counts. There have been a lot of other times when policy lynches have been suggested and gone through with that had nothing to do with me (Leonard in Vitek's game, Robb in flubs although he wasn't lynched)
Posted September 07, 2015
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agentcarr16: I haven't read it. Which game was that?
Space Opera game. Either #24 or #25.
Posted September 07, 2015
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adaliabooks: I'm sorry, but that's a load of bollocks and you know it.
No. No, I don't. Why don't you enlighten me.

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adaliabooks: I admit to being willing to policy lynch you because I find you to usually be wrong
I read the observer thread of last game. Humor me on how your play is better than anyone else's, since I often find it worse.

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adaliabooks: , distracting and annoying, not because I find you a threat.
Distractions are not threats. Interesting logic. Alas, how would that exactly help town? As for annoyance, you're not that enjoyable for me either.

Is it just me or do I feel a deja vu?

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adaliabooks: Leonard in Vitek's game,
Was not in that one, so I can't comment on it.

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adaliabooks: Robb in flubs although he wasn't lynched
So if he wasn't lynched, how is he possibly labeled as a policy lynch? And how are a couple of examples "a lot" of other times?
Posted September 07, 2015
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HijacK: I read the observer thread of last game. Humor me on how your play is better than anyone else's, since I often find it worse.

Distractions are not threats. Interesting logic. Alas, how would that exactly help town? As for annoyance, you're not that enjoyable for me either.

Is it just me or do I feel a deja vu?

So if he wasn't lynched, how is he possibly labeled as a policy lynch? And how are a couple of examples "a lot" of other times?
My play is not better than anyone else's, I didn't claim that it was. I just find that yours tends to be worse.

Distractions aren't threats. This is a distraction, it serves no benefit to town, it's not a threat. Unless you mean you are a threat to town when you distract us from scum hunting?

He wasn't lynched, but it was suggested that he should be policy lynched for claiming PGO. There are other examples, but I can't be bothered to root them out.

Yup, so I'm just gonna leave it here. We don't like each other's playstyles, we don't agree with how we choose to play and our bickering will do nothing more than distract everyone else (and no doubt annoy them too), as it seems to every game.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #30: Murder They Wrote(1351 posts)(1351 posts)
(1351 posts)