Half-baked, redundant, unnecessary? Yes. Terrible? Really?

to clarify (and no, I'm not flip-flopping, more scummyness there from RW) :

We should talk about anything and everything that can help town, that doesn't help scum, and try and see the most interactions between the most people we can see in regards to all of that/while doing that.

what you said about the deprogrammer/wyrm doesn't really have much to do with your voting status nor is it defending him from being lynched, and scrutinizing all the things aroundhim, as I explained in my view, only serve to help scum, in regards to him/the role, because that's not necessary in scum-hunting for us at all at themoment, and it's just role-strategy talk showing scum different angles of thought.

No worry about upsetting, you aren't, finding scum can be very frustrating! (: at least we'll have flips!

RW seems full of omgus voting options.

okkaayyy soooo, place those votes!

babark, agent, flub!

I'd be tempted to switch my vote to Ix for having some bad logics and seeming to be "following" RW a bit and seeming overall suspicious (and RW possibly just moved off dess to give a bit of distance and mix things up a bit, just in case? or paranoia?), if others were inclined that way. It's like he's been following who he finds most likely to get lynched/where it seem sto be going, possibly a cultist hiding in the flow of a wagon, hoping to help it go faster and help with the town kill.

Ummm, RW, bad ideas doesn't mean scum. It's not like we're all rushing to follow him, ya know? You seem desperate to find any reason to try and convince everyone to vote for someone without a doubt in their mind about it, and to discount any one else's input who doesn't gel with what you want to do and say it is scummy/voteworthy.

yepyep, sticking with you, hoping you aren't a PR (though I'm sure you'll claim one if you get to L-1, you've already set it up to...so I'm not sure what we'll do then.)

How on earth can wyrm get a town read???? Seriously?
He can get a "kill result" or a "failed result", with the failed result being either a town or the CL. That is not a "read", but then again, you do tend to refer to recruiting as "night kill".

Really Drealmer?

You don't find it awfully convenient that every suggestion JMich proposes seems to be much more likely to hit a townie than the odds would dictate? He's just wrong, you say...not conveniently trying to guide Town to bad decisions....

Let's look at them...
1) Tracker should track Bookwyrm night 1. Guaranteed not to hit scum. Waste of a power role.
2) Day 2, after Bookwyrm gets a town result, we should lynch his target away. Slim chance of lynching a neutered Cult Leader. Cannot possible hit general cult. And since Bookiwyrm doesn't read roles, very easily could be our power roles. Use of a power role that is far more likely to hit town, general cultists totally safe.

And even when the flaws in his plan are exposed, he is still doubling down on the lynch plan calling it "a big information win for town".

I'm sure we'll think that when a townie or worse one of our power roles is the one lynched...

Everything he has suggested would help scum!

And there you go trying to dismiss what I said through semantics. Everyone knows what I'm saying...

Your plan is utterly dumb. It's anti-Town and anyone who thinks it through should see how stupid it is to waste both Bookwyrm's investigation and the following lynch on the same target.

All this does is leave more people uninvestigated, leading to more Cultists joining the team while we bleed out Townies.

Please everyone lynch the scum!

On the topic of a Deprogrammer target reveal before or after:

Here is the trade-off:

Before the night:
1) Cult Leader can avoid being bounced. 100% success on growth.
2) Tracker (and Vig) can avoid duplicating the DP's target.

After the night is over:
1) Cult Leader can be bounced if he recruits the same target.
2) Tracker (and Vig) might redundantly investigate/kill the DP's target.

I think after the night is a better option. Since the odds of bouncing are similar to the odds of duplicating, it's a straight comparison of benefits. Stopping a recruitment (Death of a townie replaced by his evil doppleganger) is more valuable than a single investigation.

There are problems with both RWarehall's and JMich's proposed plans. Since some of you were eager to make plans for the tracker to do, I will suggest something for the vig to do:

We lynch RWarehall, vigilante kills JMich. Bookwyrm can then deprogram whoever else he wants. That way, if JMich himself is not PR, by Day 2 we should have 2 flips (one of which may be CL) and a third player cleared for that single Day.

This is the best course of action that I can think of proposing. I will just leave this suggestion here and hope that vigilante will not respond to me but instead will do whatever (s)he deems right.

And what problems are those? Sure seems a lot of people want to claim "problems" but don't want to discuss exactly what they are. Funny that your new current plan matches my guidelines though...all possible roles take different targets as best as possible.

Of course for some inexplicable reason, you think you should be making all those decisions...

If anyone dictates a plan, why wouldn't it be Bookwyrm? After tonight, he will be confirmed, as if he isn't the Deprogrammer, he will be neutered or dead. May I suggest we follow Bookwyrm's lead on a lynch since he is the so-to-be confirmed town?

He is believed to be town, because we have no facts and CL false claiming is just plain stupid. And I think I should make plan just the same way like you think we should follow your lead. To everyone his own truth.

I don't like JMich's plan of clearing Bookwyrm as legit in two-three Days time because for that plan to happen, information by deprogrammer, by tracker and maybe even by vigilante must be shared openly to avoid crap. That means if CL is one of those lurkers, not involved in the clearing process, he/she can plan accordingly and screw us over while knowing who is who and who does bloody what.

Your plan... What is your plan? You basically screamed that No-Lynch is terrible and everyone must vote to lynch someone. Lets lynch flubb! No, lets lynch Dessimu! No! Lets lynch JMich - he is the scum!
Your play is readable both ways. I can see you as a perfctly normal town player, a strong player and a great asset. I also don't trust you, I know for a fact that by voting me, you voted a town player, and sometimes I don't understand you in general. Both your wording and intentions. My ideas about you changed ten times already.

So I suggest what I think may work for better. It is only a suggestion and if people like it, they can follow it, alter it or whatever. But don't start blaming me for expressing an opinion.

How about reading the thread then you'll know the plan.

Short summary:
1) Find the Cult Leader: Through Day 3 Town maximizes their investigations/neutering/killing as many players as possible. Meaning lynch everyday, Vig shot by Night 2; and doing everything possible not to double up on investigations wherever possible.
a) No need to confirm Bookwyrm. If he's lying, the real Deprogrammer will make him splode or else reveal he's the Cult Leader tomorrow.
b) Lynching Bookwyrms prior night target is a bad idea, leaves an extra player not neutralized.

2) Clean Up: Night 3/Day 4 (a little flexible - if we've been lucky and killed some random cultists on the way, consider continuing #1 - otherwise)
a) Hope you've gotten the Cult Leader by now. Consider revisiting prior investigations, lynching Bookwyrm's former targets and Re-deprogramming some of the early clears. Hopefully the Cult Leader isn't still recruiting, if not we're screwed anyway, hope you are recruited for the win.

Your problem is you aren't reading what I'm writing. You just don't like that I hate your plan. Completely OMGUS.

We have 12 players:
Bookwyrm will be cleared tomorrow (or the cultists are in deep trouble)
3 Players will be lynched
2 different players with be neutralized by Bookwyrm
Tracker will likely have silently cleared at least one player not listed above
Vig may add another.

From 6 - 9 of 12 players will have been investigated/killed/neutralized for being the cult leader (Most likely an average of slightly more than 7)

We will be down to 8 players. Cult will have grown by at most 2 players so we will have needed to eliminate one cultist by this point (or started with just a CL or have gotten a bounce) or lose.

If you have a better plan, post it. But calling it "flawed" doesn't give us anything better.

A no-lynch may give us 9 remaining, but reduces our checked players to 5-8 (average of slightly more than 6 meaning slightly better than 50/50 cult is still recruiting) with third night's recruitment coming up meaning Cult + 1; Town -1 or an even worse end game.

*wonders who after the game will be able to claim they've been "DPed", and whom it will be by*

*back to making food...a nice meal before we go to sleep tonight...*

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Official vote count

JMich: 1 - RWarehall
Dessimu: 2 - cristigale, Ixamyakxim
drealmer: 2 - Bookwyrm, Fantasiscy
RWarehall: 4 - JMich, dessimu, drealmer, docbear

It takes 7 to lynch
RWarehall is closest to lynch at L-3
Not voting: flubbucket, agentcarr, babark
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Deadline is some time tomorrow.

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I'm checking in right now. Just got home from class/errands/grocery store. I need to read through what's been said.