They do not. Instead of the standard NK, they have a one-off kamikaze attack, and the recruitment. The kamikaze attack is much less powerful than the standard NK, and the recruitment is not a kill.

I was about to respond, asking if you think the recruitment ability is, at most, only equally as powerful as having a factional kill.

Then I realized that we're just nitpicking words, and it isn't likely to go anywhere useful.

Of course it's a kill. One townie ceases to exist, thus they have a no-flip night kill where even the target isn't revealed. Town is down one player every night and worse cult gains one player every night. It's a kill and it's far worse than a normal game.

To make matters worse, if we follow through on "follow Bookwyrm" Day 2, we are guaranteed to miss, meaning we will be down 3 townies and they will have gained 2 cult and we will have nothing in the way of wagon analysis after two days. We will be up against a cult that will have 3 or 4 members and grows every night.

The only saving grace is if we choose the Cult Leader, the bleeding stops. But to take any action which prolongs his life is foolhardy.

Unvote Flubbucket
Vote Dessimu

I've at least been scum hunting. Dessimu has been trying for a no-lynch from the start...

And here's what is really bad about Dessimu's proposal. No-lynch today, start lynching tomorrow "because our chances are better" then...

Why don't we wait 3 days then? Our chances of lynching a cultist will increase even more! Heck why even bother lynching. Why risk getting any blood on our hands? At the end of the game we can just blame the cultists, right?

But here's the problem with no-lynch...our chance to kill a cultist day 1 = 0%

The game starts with more townies because we are an expendable resource to eliminate scum. This game, we have weak power roles outside of the Deprogrammer and to not lynch because we "might hit a power role" is just bad policy....

In part because, there is a 0% chance we will lynch a power role. Because they will reveal before that. And this game is strange in that a reveal doesn't mean they are necessarily getting NK'd. The cult has to worry about whether the Deprogrammer protects them or not.

Furthermore, even if someone comes out and claims to be the Tracker later on, can we even believe them? Or were they the Tracker who was turned?

At the end of the day, the game will still be won and lost by our lynches and throwing our arms in the air is a bad plan....

*clears throat*

okay class, cut the chatter, eyes forward, fantasysci5 put down that spit-ball straw...*points to the board with writing on it and reads it to you all slowly*


kill
verb - to end life (ending any purpose the being living that life might have had)
noun - one whose life has been ended (their purpose is now to fertilize the garden)


convert
verb - to change from one purpose to another (I was a CEO of a fortune 500 company, then a wise man showed me some light and helped me convert my ways.)
noun - someone whose purpose has changed from one thing to another (I changed my ways, and now I'm a convert.)

In this game, we have a cult leader converting townies into cultists.
The townies are trying to kill the cult leader and the cultists. The CL can kill himself and potentially the deprogrammer with the kamikaze skill.

any questions?

I understand things can become confusing if you start to see those that have been killed as having been converted into dead fertilizer, but, that is why we have specific words that mean better things than others at times, even if both could be used and meaning could be gotten, it simply is a matter of accuracy. If you mean kill, use kill, if you mean convert, use convert.

I don't know about the rest of you, but pretty much every single thing RW has been feeding us this game tastes off to one degree or another. I'm now comfortable voting no-lynch or RW today, but definitely prefer the no-lynch approach for all the reasons I've been over. Anyone else find RW a viable lynch target for today? I seriously hate this last-minute deadline impending BS. It makes me consider removing all deadlines from my setup. People have to be able to figure it out on their own and not rely on deadlines.

RW, do you think the 1-shot vig should use their attack before D1 ends?

anyone else have an opinion?

Two people seem to be intentionally not getting it. Flub was more of a gut hunch. But either Drealmer or Dessimu have to go.

I have explained why the Cult essentially have a kill and why this kill is worse than a normal game. Thus a no-lynch is a far worse proposition than in a typical game, yet these two seem to gloss over that and still suggest this terrible course of action...

If RW gets lynched today, it will very likely be without my vote.

ehhh, you're talking about wagon analysis in a game where players change teams, and trying to make the definition of convert mean kill, and your logic is backwards as far as I see it. Also, you said something that I view as being extremely helpful to the cult. I don't want to point it out or talk about it in case they missed it, buuut, it also seems glaringly obvious to me. However, I will err on the side of caution and figure that just because it seems obvious to me, doesn't mean it's obvious to others, and not mention it. However, you've said enough questionable things that I'ma go ahead and:

unvote no-lynch

vote RWarehall

does that make you feel better, RW?

You are the one twisting logic. No one has change teams at this point and the most important goal is to find the Cult Leader who will not change teams. I explained clearly how town are essentially dying at night even if it doesn't appear cult has a night kill. If you refuse to contemplate what I explain and dismiss it out-of-hand, then I have to wonder why...

Nah, I did contemplate it, a few times, it just seems wrong to me. Have you contemplated what I have said and not just dismissed it because you hold the general position that no-lynch is bad? You are soooo sure it is worse to no-lynch in a cult game than a regular mafia game, yet you've never played a cult game before. I am not so sure myself, but what I am sure of is that I take each game setup by setup and try not to hold steadfast positions that have no flexibility, that is just a bad way to be. This here now with how things are, make me think no-lynch is a very good option.

It's not that cult "doesn't appear" to have a nightkill. THEY DON'T! They actually don't, aside from the kamikaze special 1x kill shot. YOU are blatantly twisting the meaning of words, and with that, twisting the logic and arguments surrounding it all, making it into something it is not. You've got to label things correctly in order to see straight. You aren't going to win me over with a logical argument if you can't label parts of your arguments accurately. It doesn't matter where we are in life or games. To me it's like someone saying "you've really got to try this fish!" while they are offering me pork chops. Ummm, no, that's okay, I'll pass on whatever you're trying to feed me if that is how it is going to be.

The reason I asked the question was to illustrate a simliarity to the lynch. The 1-shot vig actually has more of a chance to hit cult at any point than the lynch does to hit cult, and among other reasons, it would make no sense for the vig. to kill someone today, and to me it makes almost as much sense to not lynch today. Pretty much guaranteed to hit town.

and yes, deadline is sometime sunday

ehhh, I'ma go back to no-lynch, I do think it is the better option than killing someone today, even though RW seems WAYYY off to me, that happens often enough with enough players that it doesn't necessarily instill confidence, and with how my view no-lynch, yep, still view it as better

If people would be so townly and actually vote for who they think is most likely the CL and also list what other players they are comfortable voting today, that would be very townly of you and we actually might have some progress before deadline arrives. THANKS!

It's pretty simple.
In a normal game (ignoring town roles) we enter the night with x Town. We leave the night with x-1 Town.

This game. We enter the night with x Town. We leave the night with x-1 Town. They have a night kill. We have no powers that bring them back. It's permanent just like a normal game.

I don't care how the terminology changes with this game. if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck...

You are trying to make it sound like a no-lynch is fine because the cult doesn't kill. You are the one twisting the truth.

Unvote Flubbucket, Vote drealmer7

(I'm going to try and contribute). No-lynch seems like a bad option for town. It gives the cult a free night and no one will learn anything to be able to vote the next day. It will be like starting Day 1 all over again. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what a no-lynch would entail, but this makes sense to me. And the way you keep pushing it and casually mentioning "it would be good for town" is suspicious for me.