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General discussionFeeling down and out after my first anti-covid shot(111 posts)(111 posts)
(111 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 21, 2021
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Ready to get my 2nd dose soon once registration opens up (Pfizer). It didn't hurt for my 1st dose because I'm a brave, strong boy. :)

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kai2: Your analogy is only sound if valid data is accessible.
It's a well documented bias called survivor[ship] bias. Here are multiple videos explaining this phenomena:
- Eddie Woo: https://youtu.be/P9WFpVsRtQg
- Veritasium: https://youtu.be/_Qd3erAPI9w

You are of course welcome to go unvaccinated, run the risk of getting it, and focus solely on surviving while disregarding the risks of poorer quality of life for years and possibly not fully recover. There's plenty of uncertainty especially with these variants and I'll relink the most important papers for your review:

- 6 month consequences of COVID-19 (2021, n=1733): at least one symptom of fatigue, muscle weakness, sleep difficulties, anxiety, depression with extreme cases of lowered pulmonary diffusion abnormality
- 15 year follow-up of long-term bone and lung consequences of hospital-acquired SARS (2020, n=71): 4.6% of SARS patients still had visible lesions on their lungs and 38% had mildly reduced lung diffusion capacity after 15 years (stopped getting worse after 3 years onset) and thus did not fully recover compared to those who weren't as badly affected by it

Let's look at the probabilities of death. if there were:
- 5,343 US deaths that happened after taking the vaccine (keeping in mind there's no clear link that the vaccine caused the death in all of these cases) - > 310 million doses
- Therefore, 0.0017% chance of death or 17 deaths in 1 million doses
- 601k deaths / 33.5M cases = 1.8% conditional probability of death in the US or 18 deaths in 1000 cases (New York Times)

Comparing a probability and conditional probability is unequal, so you have to factor in the probability of getting COVID-19 in that conditional probability death. So in order for vaccines to be as dangerous as COVID-19, your chances of getting COVID-19 would have to be:
- 0.000017 = (0.018) * P(COVID-19 infection)
- P(COVID-19 infection) = 0.094%.

And when we look at the confirmed cases of the US population:
- 33.5M cases / 328.2M US population = 10.2% of the US population already had a confirmed case of COVID-19
- 10.2% / 0.094% = 109

Then your chances of getting COVID-19 and dying from it is 109x higher now than dying from the vaccine. And this doesn't include the mutated variants, which are more transmissible than the original, and will continue to be with us for the next foreseeable future. So if you're still OK with these risks, there's probably nothing I can do to convince you anymore.

EDIT: ah, made a mistake interpreting results. The risk of dying from COVID-19 than dying after getting a vaccine is 1059x higher. The actual US infection rates are 109x higher than you'd want for the risks of dying from COVID-19 and dying after the vaccine to be the same.
Post edited June 21, 2021 by Canuck_Cat
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
Had one on Saturday. First one.
Arm hurt little bit yesterday morning and afternoon as I did get jabbed in the muscle.
Posted June 21, 2021
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Canuck_Cat: You are of course welcome to go unvaccinated, run the risk of getting it, and focus solely on surviving while disregarding the risks of poorer quality of life for years and possibly not fully recover.
The rates of people suffering lingering after effects after getting co-vid is actually also quite low....most people(at least in my country, and also a number of others) have been asymptomatic or suffered minor effects which went away in a short time frame.

Musing: I find it interesting how a number of people (I mean in general) will use co-vid's worst case scenarios(of which the rates are somewhat low) as a justification/reason for people to get the jab, and then seemingly be more ready to dismiss/be ok with people's concerns about the side effects of said vaccinations.

All the above said, I am glad the most vulnerable populations have access to said vaccinations now, should they so want to partake of them.

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Canuck_Cat: And this doesn't include the mutated variants, which are more transmissible than the original, and will continue to be with us for the next foreseeable future.
They might be more transmissible, but the mortality/serious side effect rates have started to drop, and they will likely continue to decrease over time as newer strains come about(which usually happens with a number of similar illnesses as they mutate).
Post edited June 21, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
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GamezRanker: The rates of people suffering lingering after effects after getting co-vid is actually also quite low....most people(at least in my country, and also a number of others) have been asymptomatic or suffered minor effects which went away in a short time frame.
Post-COVID symptoms in non-hospitalized patients (2021, n=958) study based in Germany on no or minor symptoms of COVID-19 at 4 and 7 months of onset estimated 12.8-27.8% patients suffered long-term symptoms such as shortness of breath, anosmia (partial or complete loss of smell), ageusia (loss of taste), and fatigue. All broken down into percentages at each followup. So yes, there's a decent chance people won't suffer any long-term symptoms, but the percentages are quite common to risk it.

Musing: I find it interesting how a number of people (I mean in general) will use co-vid's worst case scenarios(of which the rates are somewhat low) as a justification/reason for people to get the jab, and then seemingly be more ready to dismiss/be ok with the side effects of said vaccinations.
Refer to the CDC page earlier I linked with the stats regarding side effects and do the math.
- Anaphylaxis: 2-5 per 1 million vaccines for any vaccine (conservative: 5)
- Thrombosis: 36 / 11.7 million for J&J
- Myocarditis and pericarditis: 323 for Pfizer / Moderna
- TOTAL: (5/1M)*(310M) + 36 + 323 = 1909 cases

1909 cases of side effects compared to the most conservative estimate of vaccines causing deaths of 5343 in the US. So it's even rarer to get side effects than a death following a vaccine. So that addresses your concerns about side effects and you can go back and reinput the numbers for your calculations.

They might be more transmissible, but the mortality/serious side effect rates have started to drop, and they will likely continue to decrease over time as newer strains come about(which usually happens with a number of similar illnesses as they mutate).
Could it be that mortality and side effects have dropped because people have been vaccinated at least once before being infected with these variants? Would love to see some data instead of a vague, uncited opinion.
Post edited June 21, 2021 by Canuck_Cat
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
These shots look like totally unnecessary.
If you are healthy and not a fat blob, your body should easily defeat covid on its own.
Posted June 21, 2021
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Canuck_Cat: You are of course welcome to go unvaccinated, run the risk of getting it, and focus solely on surviving while disregarding the risks of poorer quality of life for years and possibly not fully recover. There's plenty of uncertainty especially with these variants and I'll relink the most important papers for your review:
There are already several treatments which are very successful in combating this illness if treated early. One of the main problems is, that unless you have already dyspnea, many hospitals and doctors will send you home with nothing and tell you to come back when it becomes serious:

Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, Fluvoxamine and more.

It also seems to be the case that you can use Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic measure.

The "shot" does not make you immune to the virus. The shot has a probability that the symptoms of the illness will not be so severe in your body. All these "gene therapeutic measures" are leaky.

odysee.com/@HoneyFactor:a/How-to-save-the-world-in-3-easy-steps-malone-kirsch-weinstein:4 - 3 hours well spent in these times.
@BreOl72 Gute Besserung.
Post edited June 21, 2021 by Arundir
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
Haven't had one yet but I remember getting a flu shot years ago and I felt like crap for a couple of days. It felt like I got my ass kicked. I'm expecting to have the same reaction once I get my first dose.
Posted June 21, 2021
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Canuck_Cat: So yes, there's a decent chance people won't suffer any long-term symptoms, but the percentages are quite common to risk it.
You seem to have forgotten to point out that that 12-27% number is of all those hospitalized......the totals of which are(iirc) around 10-15% of those who get sick.

So then, even 27%(the high end percentage you listed) of 15%(those who have gotten sick and went to the hospital on average) would be under 5% of all who've gotten sick. If we go by the lower percentage you listed(around 12%), that would be around 2% of all who've gotten sick.

To me, those numbers are a bit more of an acceptable risk(of course, others are free to disagree).

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Canuck_Cat: 1909 cases of side effects compared to the most conservative estimate of vaccines causing deaths of 5343 in the US. So it's even rarer to get side effects than a death following a vaccine. So that addresses your concerns about side effects and you can go back and reinput the numbers for your calculations.
Still, it is worth thinking about and considering when getting a vaccination, I think.

Also, with a vaccination people intentionally expose themselves to it......whereas to my knowledge not many do so with actual illnesses.
(i.e. you can do your best to avoid ANY chance of illness side effects by not getting said illness, but once you get a vaccination/other medical procedure you're more or less locked into the roll of the dice[on if you get a serious or even minor side effect or not])

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Canuck_Cat: Could it be that mortality and side effects have dropped because people have been vaccinated at least once before being infected with these variants?
That and natural immunity can drop both rates.....still, most illnesses weaken over time(this is partly to ensure they don't run out of hosts through their hosts succumbing too much to their presence).

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Arundir: There are already several treatments which are very successful in combating this illness if treated early. One of the main problems is, that unless you have already dyspnea, hospitals and doctors will send you home with nothing and tell you to come back when it becomes serious:

Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, Fluvoxamine and more.
You forgot zinc.....I hear tell zinc(when used with the above by doctors[a thing called z-pac]) also does wonders. Of course, such things are cheaper and more accessible, and make big pharma less of a profit, so.....

Btw, if I got sick and was offered a choice, i'd willingly take the above treatments if offered. The new experimental therapies with barely a year of testing? Not so much.
(well ok, if they tested the vaccinations more and some serious data came back from long term[5+ year] studies showing them to be safe, I might get a vaccination if I was in the proper categories[old, very ill with other issues, etc])
Post edited June 21, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
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GamezRanker: Also, with a vaccination people intentionally expose themselves to it......whereas to my knowledge not many do so with actual illnesses.
There are, however, people who have intentionally exposed themselves to the virus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_party&oldid=1028843631

Furthermore, the US Justice Department did have to warn that anyone intentionally spreading COVID-19 could be charged with terrorism.
Posted June 21, 2021
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GamezRanker: Also, with a vaccination people intentionally expose themselves to it......whereas to my knowledge not many do so with actual illnesses.
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dtgreene: There are, however, people who have intentionally exposed themselves to the virus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_party&oldid=1028843631

Furthermore, the US Justice Department did have to warn that anyone intentionally spreading COVID-19 could be charged with terrorism.
hmm why would anyone want covid intentionally ? i dont get it it makes no sense , just like cutting off an arm/genital or getting those ugly tattoos , so many idiots :I

yep agree it is terrorism , just like those icecream lickers
Posted June 21, 2021
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dtgreene: There are, however, people who have intentionally exposed themselves to the virus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_party&oldid=1028843631
True, but I am pretty certain it's not to the same degree as those who exposed themselves willingly to getting vaccinated.

Point being, one could(and did) easily avoid getting co-vid with some basic measures and common sense...and could likely continue to do so if need be. This is not so once one gets the vaccination....then one has to deal with the slight chance they might(but likely won't) get a side effect from one of them.

Of course, that said: if adults want to risk it, then imo that's up to them.
Post edited June 21, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted June 21, 2021
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BreOl72: I went and got my first anti-covid shot yesterday.
No prob, everything went well, and I felt fine for the whole day.

But this morning, when I woke up, oh boy, my whole body was aching as if I had taken a good beating.

I mean, I know it's a good sign, and proof that my immune system is doing its job properly - but I honestly would've preferred to go through the vaccination process without feeling so kaput.
I sure hope you got the Pfizer dose otherwise look foward to a blood clot induced stroke.
Posted June 21, 2021
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Orkhepaj: hmm why would anyone want covid intentionally ? i dont get it it makes no sense....
To some others, it is/seems less riskier to get the illness than to take a prototype vaccine that's barely been tested(less than 1 year or so, compared to others which get tested around 2-4 years for long term effects).

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Crosmando: I sure hope you got the Pfizer dose otherwise look foward to a blood clot induced stroke.
My one family member got the newer vaccine(J&J, iirc)...sure hope it ain't the one you're talking about.
(although they don't fly and don't plan to, and I hear tell the clots mainly appear while flying....so hopefully they should be ok even if it's the same vaccine)
Post edited June 21, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted June 21, 2021
low rated
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Orkhepaj: hmm why would anyone want covid intentionally ? i dont get it it makes no sense....
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GamezRanker: To some others, it is/seems less riskier to get the illness than to take a prototype vaccine that's barely been tested(less than 1 year or so, compared to others which get tested around 2-4 years for long term effects).

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Crosmando: I sure hope you got the Pfizer dose otherwise look foward to a blood clot induced stroke.
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GamezRanker: My one family member got the newer vaccine(J&J, iirc)...sure hope it ain't the one you're talking about.
(although they don't fly and don't plan to, and I hear tell the clots mainly appear while flying....so hopefully they should be ok even if it's the same vaccine)
but intentionally?:O
I get they dont want the antichinaflu vaccine but why get the flu?
Posted June 21, 2021
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GamezRanker: I believe those numbers are from the CDC. As for the discrepancy: the percentages that user listed aren't the percentage of hospitalized who succumb, but rather the percentage of the overall population(hospitalized or no) that succumb.
The other user mentioned survivability rates specifically.

And I don't believe those numbers are from the CDC.

I'm not very familiar with how they organize their dataset, but here they show 469,570 deaths in the 65+ age group: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm

That's already 1,17% of the whole 65+ US population, so obviously the survivability rate cannot be 99,96% for 60+, even assuming all of them have already had covid.

The low mortality numbers the other user mentioned remind me of some projections from early last year, but those were made by scientists from Stanford University that were predicting 10,000-50,000 Covid deaths for the whole country.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionFeeling down and out after my first anti-covid shot(111 posts)(111 posts)
(111 posts)