I am just curious about what features the users on this forum like in roguelikes, and which they do not like.

For purposes of this topic, to qualify as a roguelike, the game must:
* Be turn based (In other words, ganes like Binding of Isaac and Spelunky do not qualify)
* Consist (in the main mode) primarily of randomly generated levels, with randomly placed treasure

Note that I do *not* consider permadeath to be a requirement; however, I do not forbid it, either. (Listing "permadeath" as a desirable or undesirable feature is perfectly reasonable.)

Anyway, what are everyone's thoughts on this topic?

I have seen the name Rogue ravaged so much since the success of FTL by people who don't get what made Rogue special. Roguelikes are as close to an arcade RPG as it gets. When you start an arcade game for the first time you have the exact same possibility for beating the game as when you start it for the hundredth time, only your skill determines how far you will get.

No permanent stat increases
This is something Rogue Legacy does. When the game is balanced around the idea that your stats will increase run after run, it means that there is no way you will ever be able to beat the game on the first run. Every run is basically just a grind to get as much gold to unlock stats for the next run. It is no longer about pushing on, but about collecting gold.

No unlockable content
This is what would have made me give up on FTL if it wasn't for a savegame editor. Has anyone in the history of ever been playing an RPG and though "I wish the game forced me to beat it as a fighter first before allowing me to pick another class"? No. So what is this obsession with locking content behind arbitrary events? This isn't exclusive to RPGs, so many other games do it as well.

Make it fast
As I mentioned above, Rogue was a sort of "arcade" RPG, and as such progress through the game has to be quick. If dying means I have to start from the beginning make sure it does not take long to get back where I was the last time. One way of making a game fast is by having a sort of time limit, like limited food or the enemy fleet in FTL to force the player not to grind.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the approach taken in some Japanese roguelikes like Shiren the Wanderer? In Shiren the Wanderer, you have the option of putting items in storage, and they will still be there if you die and have to start over. However, thanks to the many ways to deal with enemies without having to fight them (staves can put enemies to sleep or warp them away, for example), it is certainly possible to beat the main game without doing so. (It's also worth noting that, when you die or leave the dungeon, your level resets to 1; I actually happen to like that particular mechanic.)

Regarding Rogue Legacy, which I don't consider to be a roguelike (I classify the game as a metroidvania), there's actually a different issue; unless your character is a Lich, there is no character progression within each run. If your character is strong enough to kill a boss, there is no reason not to head straight to the boss; no reason to have that character explore in order to get strong enough to kill the boss because the character is already strong enough already. (By the way, my favorite class in Rogue Legacy to play as is the Lich, partly because they actually *do* get a progression mechanic, and partly because that crow spell is extremely powerful and fun to use.)

Well I personally struggle a bit with ASCII, so optional tile sets are always nice. I will say, however, that Brogue's ASCII is absolutely gorgeous.

I have played Shiren on the DS, and I consider the jars to be mostly just a type of cheat or exploit. What I meant was when the game was really balanced around permanent stat increases to the point where you have to use them or you will only be doing only one point of damage at a time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i-9ISnrjxE
"How many sons and daughters have been lost in your pathetic attempts at revenge?"
None. None at all.

Class Systems. I've never been a big fan of classes in games anyway, mostly because I dislike the classic archetypes and prefer to mix and match to fit my own playstyle. However it is even worse in roguelikes due to the random nature of everything. Sometimes I get lucky and find the Indestructable Plate Mail of Awesomeness or the super rare Wand of Ultimate Cosmic Powers on level 2 of a dungeon, but I decided to play as an Archer this time around so I'm class-restricted from using either if these items.

What do you think about the idea of having classes, but having a class that can use (nearly) any item, but lacks special abilities? Also, how about the other classes getting special dungeons that cater specifically to them? (Torneko: The Last Hope does this.) For example, if there is a dungeon specifically for Archers, you would not find either of the items you mention (except maybe as a reward for completing the dungeon if the game works like a Japanese roguelike), but would instead find a lot of bows and arrows, including interesting magic arrows that might be rare or non-existent in the game's main dungeon.

Also, have each class play *very* differently from one another. Don't just make each class have different equipment and skill lists; how about varying things like the means by which special abilities are acquired? How about changing the fundamental means of stat growth? (Maybe a certain class, instead of leveling up or being able to use conventional equipment, instead gains permanent stats whenever you pick up items, at the cost of not having an inventory or being able to use said items.)

Incidentally, one feature that I like in a roguelike is themed dungeons. This dungeon might have a gimmick and/or an unusual selection of items. For example, how about a dungeon where the only item available is a blank paper scroll, but such scrolls are common (and can have other scroll effects written on them)? How about a dungeon where you get one wish per floor, but no other equipment? How about a dungeon where the ability to polymorph yourself is easily available, and you are expected to use it to go through the dungeon (Shiren the Wanderer actually has a dungeon like this)?

Things I want from a roguelike:

- a diverse cast of characters that enable a variety of different playstyles
- adaptive opponent AI that reacts to your own moves
- the characters control the ball in a realistic manner in accordance to how they move

For purposes of this topic, to qualify as a roguelike, the game must:
* be about football
* that's it

Reliance on a food/hunger system. Nothing quite like having to tote 100lbs of food...

Is that something you like, or something you dislike?

One more thought: How would you feel if somebody made a roguelike with an undo button? Basically, by pressing the button, you could take back your last move, and anything that happened since then would be undone. Furthermore, if you die, you would be able to undo out of the death, and take a different course of action that (hopefully) would not cause death.

For purposes of this question, assume that the game is balanced with the assumption that the player will use the undo button; this might lead to the game being drastically different from other roguelikes.

(From what I know about the DROD series, it looks like they could be described as such, except that the lack of random generation makes those games puzzle games rather than roguelikes.)

Yeah sorry, I meant the storage places. It has been quite a while since I played the game. How did you do that? Don't you have to beat all the bosses first? What's cool about Dungeons of Dredmor is that you get to pick six classes and the classes only determine what skills and stats you get. For example, if you pick the swords "class" you are better with swords, but if you don't pick it you can still use swords.

Undoing and redoing an action would still yield the same random number result, right? Like you couldn't cast the Spell Of Instant Death on a boss and retry until you get that 0.1% chance of success.

Actually, what I was thinking is that the game would need to have less randomness than a typical roguelike. For example, the spell of instant death would either always or never work on a specific target (though certain enemies might react to being hit in ways that might, or might not, be unpleasant). This is just one thing about the game design that would likely need to be adjusted when balancing the game to accommodate the undo button existing.

(The interaction of undo and unidentified items might also be interesting; items with obvious bad effects and no good effects would likely not work, while those with non-obvious (or at least not immediately obvious) effects, which can be good or bad depending on the situation, would still be worth including.)