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General discussionEU charges Valve + 5 big publishers for geoblocking(34 posts)(34 posts)
(34 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 05, 2019
Valve responded to this earlier today:


Earlier today, the European Commission ("EC") sent Statements of Objections ("SO") to Valve and five publishers in an investigation that it started in 2013. The EC alleges that the five publishers entered into agreements with their distributors that included geo-blocking provisions for PC games sold by the distributors, and that separately Valve entered into agreements with the same publishers that prevented consumers in the European Economic Area ("EEA") from purchasing PC games because of their location.

However, the EC's charges do not relate to the sale of PC games on Steam - Valve's PC gaming service. Instead the EC alleges that Valve enabled geo-blocking by providing Steam activation keys and - upon the publishers' request - locking those keys to particular territories ("region locks") within the EEA. Such keys allow a customer to activate and play a game on Steam when the user has purchased it from a third-party reseller. Valve provides Steam activation keys free of charge and does not receive any share of the purchase price when a game is sold by third-party resellers (such as a retailer or other online store).

The region locks only applied to a small number of game titles. Approximately just 3% of all games using Steam (and none of Valve's own games) at the time were subject to the contested region locks in the EEA. Valve believes that the EC's extension of liability to a platform provider in these circumstances is not supported by applicable law. Nonetheless, because of the EC's concerns, Valve actually turned off region locks within the EEA starting in 2015, unless those region locks were necessary for local legal requirements (such as German content laws) or geographic limits on where the Steam partner is licensed to distribute a game. The elimination of region locks will also mean that publishers will likely raise prices in less affluent regions to avoid price arbitrage. There are no costs involved in sending activation keys from one country to another and the activation key is all a user needs to activate and play a PC game.
Posted April 05, 2019
Free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour. If someone from Hungary can go and work in Germany then someone in Germany should be able to buy from Hungary.

It's pathetic that people are complaining about the EU when this move sounds like one for the benefit of customers in the long run.
If developers choose to raise their prices then complain about them instead. People should stop acting like babies who can't get their toys right away.
The Commission also says the publishers broke antitrust rules by including contractual restrictions that prevented distributors other than Valve from selling some PC games outside of certain Member States."
Why that sounds like exclusivity. The same kind of action that a lot of people on this forum were complaining about Epic games while ignoring Valve doing the same thing except now it is written right in front of them.
Posted April 05, 2019
I believe it isn't about rising prices in countries where prices were low, but it's the other way around, why should people be restrained from buying from those countries.
Posted April 05, 2019
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Korotan: Just for clarification. You mean the british colony with the cangoroos and not the land of Mozart, Falco and Sebastion Kurz?
I think they do indeed mean Australia as it has quite a reputation for being conservative about games (and other things besides). GOG has in the past sold censored versions of games there that are uncensored elsewhere.
Posted April 05, 2019
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joppo: First of all geoblocking and regional prices aren't the same thing, but RP as implemented in steam led to a need for geoblocking.
I still wouldn't consider blocking certain keys because of regional pricing as "geoblocking". They're not blocking the purchase of the game based on region, just some keys for that game.

Blocking certain games in specific countries (because of censorship) IS geoblocking. GOG does it as well - but in this case the EU should be looking at the (EU) countries in question - online game stores are just abiding to local laws.
Posted April 05, 2019
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Pheace: Valve responded to this earlier today:

Earlier today, the European Commission ("EC") sent Statements of Objections ("SO") to Valve and five publishers in an investigation that it started in 2013. The EC alleges that the five publishers entered into agreements with their distributors that included geo-blocking provisions for PC games sold by the distributors, and that separately Valve entered into agreements with the same publishers that prevented consumers in the European Economic Area ("EEA") from purchasing PC games because of their location.

However, the EC's charges do not relate to the sale of PC games on Steam - Valve's PC gaming service. Instead the EC alleges that Valve enabled geo-blocking by providing Steam activation keys and - upon the publishers' request - locking those keys to particular territories ("region locks") within the EEA. Such keys allow a customer to activate and play a game on Steam when the user has purchased it from a third-party reseller. Valve provides Steam activation keys free of charge and does not receive any share of the purchase price when a game is sold by third-party resellers (such as a retailer or other online store).

The region locks only applied to a small number of game titles. Approximately just 3% of all games using Steam (and none of Valve's own games) at the time were subject to the contested region locks in the EEA. Valve believes that the EC's extension of liability to a platform provider in these circumstances is not supported by applicable law. Nonetheless, because of the EC's concerns, Valve actually turned off region locks within the EEA starting in 2015, unless those region locks were necessary for local legal requirements (such as German content laws) or geographic limits on where the Steam partner is licensed to distribute a game. The elimination of region locks will also mean that publishers will likely raise prices in less affluent regions to avoid price arbitrage. There are no costs involved in sending activation keys from one country to another and the activation key is all a user needs to activate and play a PC game.
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Pheace:
Hmm i might just have misunderstood some parts of this, while this doesn't concern me i do am happy if it can make region locks go away in particular from people who use Steam and buy from those publishers but i still don't want to risk more restrictions and oversight in gaming by Govs and Unions.
Post edited April 05, 2019 by ChrisGamer300
Posted April 05, 2019
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joppo: What a weird world we live in that you're not allowed to have the good part of regional pricing but the downsides are a-ok.
Fascinating. To me, it's like the EU parliament is still beating the bushes.

I'm actually not surprised; they're after the gaming industry now and let the MAFIAA industry free to dictate geoblocking, collective punishment and the like. I mean, they just did the movie/music industry a massive service with Article 11 and especially 13, and we still can't access the same content in every country.

If they instead went after the MAFIAA industry, or say Germany itself, for not letting the German people have the same access as the rest of the Europe, then that would be a way more positive route.

Let's see how far this new world order is heading, and if it's going to favour companies or the end-user/consumer. I'd say it's going to favour the companies... again.
Post edited April 06, 2019 by sanscript
Posted April 05, 2019
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LootHunter: Do you understand that "geoblocking" aka regional prices exists on GOG too? And by the same reasoning EU could come after GOG.
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toxicTom: True. So "One World One Price" will have to come back for EU countries. I just fear the "One Price" will be the highest asked in any EU country.
no.
regional prices are still allowed. But when you, as a German, buy a game while being in Hungary (for a lower price), you should still be able to use that game when being back in Germany.
Afaik GOG doesn't do any geoblocking of that sort, so I don't really see this changing anything here.
Posted April 06, 2019
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immi101: no.
regional prices are still allowed. But when you, as a German, buy a game while being in Hungary (for a lower price), you should still be able to use that game when being back in Germany.
Afaik GOG doesn't do any geoblocking of that sort, so I don't really see this changing anything here.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification.
Posted April 06, 2019
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immi101: no.
regional prices are still allowed. But when you, as a German, buy a game while being in Hungary (for a lower price), you should still be able to use that game when being back in Germany.
Afaik GOG doesn't do any geoblocking of that sort, so I don't really see this changing anything here.
Of course not, GOG is (mostly) DRM free. But geoblocking isn't only about usage - it's also about the ability to buy.
Posted April 06, 2019
low rated
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joppo: The conclusion in the article is that game prices will probably go up, at least in the countries that had a lower price.
That makes it sound like a bad thing, but it's not. Regional pricing is a scam, and the people implicitly cited in that statement were the beneficiaries of that scam, to the detriment of everyone else who isn't and instead has to pay normal prices for the same products.

As for the news in the OP: I'm glad the EU actually did something good for once. They should outright abolish regional pricing too. So should every nation on earth.
Posted April 06, 2019
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immi101: no.
regional prices are still allowed. But when you, as a German, buy a game while being in Hungary (for a lower price), you should still be able to use that game when being back in Germany.
Afaik GOG doesn't do any geoblocking of that sort, so I don't really see this changing anything here.
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teceem: Of course not, GOG is (mostly) DRM free. But geoblocking isn't only about usage - it's also about the ability to buy.
if you are strictly speaking about the term 'geoblocking', you are right of course.
But that doesn't have any relation to the case described in the OP, does it?
Posted April 08, 2019
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joppo: The conclusion in the article is that game prices will probably go up, at least in the countries that had a lower price.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: That makes it sound like a bad thing, but it's not. Regional pricing is a scam, and the people implicitly cited in that statement were the beneficiaries of that scam, to the detriment of everyone else who isn't and instead has to pay normal prices for the same products.

As for the news in the OP: I'm glad the EU actually did something good for once. They should outright abolish regional pricing too. So should every nation on earth.
I contest the statement that those were the "beneficiaries of the scam". Regional pricing can be applied in two independent ways:
- giving less wealthy countries a discount (which makes the beneficiaries those people who now can pay less for the game);
- putting a surcharge on prices in a wealthy country. (Obviously in this case the beneficiaries are who you said they are.)

The problem is that the likely reaction to the EU's ruling would be to make away with that first application of RP but the second application is still absolutely allowed. Which is why I said that we're only not allowed to have the benefits of RP.

Oh BTW I also predict a rise of usage of VPNs to Russia and China among hungarian, romanian, czech... whatever steam customers.
Posted April 08, 2019
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joppo: What a weird world we live in that you're not allowed to have the good part of regional pricing but the downsides are a-ok.
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sanscript: Fascinating. To me, it's like the EU parliament is still beating the bushes.

I'm actually not surprised; they're after the gaming industry now and let the MAFIAA industry free to dictate geoblocking, collective punishment and the like. I mean, they just did the movie/music industry a massive service with Article 11 and especially 13, and we still can't access the same content in every country.

If they instead went after the MAFIAA industry, or say Germany itself, for not letting the German people have the same access as the rest of the Europe, then that would be a way more positive route.

Let's see how far this new world order is heading, and if it's going to favour companies or the end-user/consumer. I'd say it's going to favour the companies... again.
what has the Music And Film Industry Association of America got to do with it?
Posted April 08, 2019
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amok: what has the Music And Film Industry Association of America got to do with it?
Hmmm... they are assholes in regard to copyright?

So totally don't download this song
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionEU charges Valve + 5 big publishers for geoblocking(34 posts)(34 posts)
(34 posts)