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adaliabooks: I think your missing the point. It's not down to Steam, or GOG, it will be down to the developers.
If this works and is as all encompassing as Epic claims then you don't have to maintain a GOG Galaxy build and a Steam build and an Epic build, you just have one game with multiplayer, achievements and everything else that works with all of them.
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Pheace: It'll *be* an Epic build
Only technically. It'll be a suite of features that can be used anywhere and by anyone. As they talk about consoles too if you just make one version of your game and not even have to worry too much about console specific stuff for releases imagine how much easier that would be for devs (I know there would be more stuff that might need to be different for console releases, but anything that doesn't have to be is a bonus and less time and effort to maintain different platforms).
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Pheace: It'll *be* an Epic build
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adaliabooks: Only technically. It'll be a suite of features that can be used anywhere and by anyone
Leaderboards, achievements, Friends, profiles, voicechat.

All that stuff is going to be tied to a service. A managed, third party service. It's not going to be peer to peer. That means you're tying your game's development to a service. In this case Epic.

Wouldn't that just be like Steam selling a GOG game that requires the Galaxy client to see achievement progress? Or do you expect a game with this to have Steam achievements if released on Steam or Galaxy achievements if released on GOG?
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Pheace: Leaderboards, achievements, Friends, profiles, voicechat.

All that stuff is going to be tied to a service. A managed, third party service. It's not going to be peer to peer. That means you're tying your game's development to a service. In this case Epic.

Wouldn't that just be like Steam selling a GOG game that requires the Galaxy client to see achievement progress? Or do you expect a game with this to have Steam achievements if released on Steam or Galaxy achievements if released on GOG?
Of course, but it's always going to. What Epic are suggesting is that service no longer needs to depend on where you bought your game or what platform you bought it on. You could load up The Witcher 3 on X Box and see your PC achievements for example.

The latter.

Or if Epic are clever it will tie into other services like Steam and Galaxy (and presumably their own client) so achievements can show up wherever people want and expect them to while still only relying on their own basic framework.
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adaliabooks: Of course, but it's always going to. What Epic are suggesting is that service no longer needs to depend on where you bought your game or what platform you bought it on. You could load up The Witcher 3 on X Box and see your PC achievements for example.

The latter.
That's great, if you're interested in that. But for the service you're using, that just means you're required to use an external client to get those features.

A simple example. Would you, or do you think many here would be fine if GOG started selling (otherwise DRM-Free) games that required downloading and using Steam for it's community features and achievements?

That's basically what it's going to amount to, unless you only use Epic's service anyway.

I do agree it sounds better for developers, especially the cross platform stuff (though i still cringe whenever I see a game that might interest me and I see it's also releasing on consoles. I consider it an instant minus since it still often means the game was consolized in certain parts compared to a true PC release) and ultimately, the best place for developers is where the games will go and with it, the following. I have no idea how much trust to put in Tencent though.
Post edited December 13, 2018 by Pheace
Cross-platform chat and stuff makes little difference to me as I don't use GOG Galaxy.. Only gaming client I use is Steam and part of the reason I love GOG is due to not requiring a client in the first place.. If its MP or has frequent content updates and such I tend to go for Steam, everything else I go for GOG because of things like fair-price packages, no-shovelware but mostly importantly because I don't need a client, and with GOG all I need on my hard drive are the game files themselves and no extra software

It's already bad enough that Doom Eternal will mostly likely be bethesda exclusive, and now some games will be epic launcher exclusive.

Ultimately, cross-platform with these various features still means installing their launcher. I don't see the interest personally and only use Steam because a lot of games sadly don't make it here on GOG and also because it implements a lot of good features in SteamWorks.

Uplay
Origin
Epic Launcher
Bethesda Launcher

..It's time to stop.
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colorfuldescent: It makes Epic look good to offer, and makes the other companies look bad if they refuse, but will this really amount to anything tangible for the end user? I can't see any large sized company caring about cross-play with Epic users.

--

A further read suggests it's actually games running on Epic's engine, not necessarily games sold on their store. I suppose that's better, since it means games not sold on the Epic storefront but using Unreal can still have cross-play.
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adaliabooks: I think your missing the point. It's not down to Steam, or GOG, it will be down to the developers.
If this works and is as all encompassing as Epic claims then you don't have to maintain a GOG Galaxy build and a Steam build and an Epic build, you just have one game with multiplayer, achievements and everything else that works with all of them.

And when you look at it like that then it is very valuable to developers, more people playing together on different platforms means multiplayer is more active for longer (and presumably whatever income you make from that lasts longer too, or the positive buzz around your game lasts longer and long tail sales increase)

Also they specifically state it's not tied to any store or engine, so anyone could use it. Not just Epic store games or Unreal engine games.
They state that it will start with games running on their own engine
The service launch will begin with a C SDK encapsulating our online services, together with Unreal Engine and Unity integrations.
And that it will expand over time. For at least Steam and Xbox (I'm not clear on how Sony handles online) the servers are not owned by the developer, and they won't be able (either technically or contractually) to allow access to those servers without the permission of the company running them. That means no matchmaking, achievement or save synchronization, etc. unless the company hosting the multiplayer agrees to allow API access to Epic, which they ultimately have no reason to do (especially Steam, for whom the Epic store is a direct competitor.)

Even Epic acknowledges this in their own post
This will support all 7 major platforms (PC, Mac, iOS, Android, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch) to the full extent each platform allows per-title.
Note the wording: not each developer allows, each platform allows. The person who owns the servers decides who can connect to them, and if they say no to cross-play, it won't happen.
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adaliabooks: I think your missing the point. It's not down to Steam, or GOG, it will be down to the developers.
If this works and is as all encompassing as Epic claims then you don't have to maintain a GOG Galaxy build and a Steam build and an Epic build, you just have one game with multiplayer, achievements and everything else that works with all of them.

And when you look at it like that then it is very valuable to developers, more people playing together on different platforms means multiplayer is more active for longer (and presumably whatever income you make from that lasts longer too, or the positive buzz around your game lasts longer and long tail sales increase)

Also they specifically state it's not tied to any store or engine, so anyone could use it. Not just Epic store games or Unreal engine games.
Apologies if this ends up double posted, but my last attempt at responding did not show up.

At launch the service will only support Epic's own engines, and games launched on their store, as mentioned in the linked article
The service launch will begin with a C SDK encapsulating our online services, together with Unreal Engine and Unity integrations. We’ll start with a core set of features and expand over time.
Regarding the developer having the say regarding cross-play, for Xbox and Steam at least (I'm not familiar with how Sony handles online), the servers are not owned by the developer. For anything like matchmaking, achievements and save synchronization, etc. they will require the platform's permission to access the API. The person who owns the server ultimately decides who can connect to it, if they say no to cross-play, then there won't be any cross-play. For Steam the Epic store is direct competition, there isn't much benefit to enabling cross-play with their platform.
Post edited December 13, 2018 by colorfuldescent