Posted October 31, 2016

Bad Hair Day
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other

Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016

Did you read this part?

But the logic behind forbidding a FPS in which your aim/target is to GET RID of Nazis and only because it is showing Nazi-symbols (which by the way is ok in FILMS) is not really explainable at all. and on top of it, it is playing in an alternate reality anyway, so by definition fiction. It really sometimes makes me wonder what those guys deciding do smoke or eat.

PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016

You want to see an example of stupidity in this process?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Raid (yes, german link the EN doesn't say anything about, this game was also indexed out of paramilitary drill, being put into a role of a rambo and destroyer, game could cause "trouble, aggressiveness ..... and headaches)
And the link to you posted is about indexed games, not about banned ones. If you don't know the difference, you should probably stop posting about that matter.
Edit: And River Raid is neither banned nor indexed. It was removed from the list years ago.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf

Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016

Sorry it is:
verfassungswidrige Symbole, §86 StGB
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__86.html
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86a.html
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86.html
The possession is illegal. Don't argue with me, argue with the politicians and judges.

Edit: And River Raid is neither banned nor indexed. It was removed from the list years ago.
was is the past tense of is, just in case you do not know what times are about.
And as you might know, any banned game is indexed by default, which means they are being banned from being publicly displayed.
If you want to nitpick you should really nitpick and ONLY use indexed. As banning according to the German law is only a sub-form of the indexing. But nevertheless they are ALL banned from being on public display, right;)
EDIT: changed a wrong link
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Goodaltgamer

PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016


The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf

CharlesGrey
Original Grey
Registered: Sep 2013
From Germany

Leroux
Major Blockhead
Registered: Apr 2010
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016

How did this thread turn into another discussion about German laws and indexed games, that's a completely different topic than what the OP was talking about ...

Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016

The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
The only way to get such a game, you have to import it:
Same article:
Händlern wie auch Verbrauchern drohen bis zu drei Jahre Haft oder Geldstrafe, unabhängig vom Bestehen einer Indizierung.
Seller as well as USER up to 3 years or money
further:
aufgepasst: Gerichte können je nach Zahl der vorhandenen Medien ein „Vorrätighalten“ zum Zwecke der Verbreitung feststellen
If you own more than one game out of this list courts still can safely and legally assume that you horded them for selling.
And as STGB 86 clearly defines:
einführt oder ausführt (imports or exports) is anyone possessing it already breaking the law.
NOW if the police/prosecutor/judge will punish you is another question.
But as you can only have received it by illegal means you would be punishable. If a friend gave it to you, doesn't matter, you would need to name him.
So possession is not ok, it might be ignored, two different things. (unless if you would have more than one)
They really did posted this sentence badly. Unlike a weapon or similar police would normally not make a hassle out of it, yes, unless there would be other indicators. Similar as it was handled a long time with certain drugs. You were not getting prosecuted if for own consumption, BUT according to the law, you still did break the law.
Plus the state would need to prove how long you already have it as otherwise certain limits would have expired. (Verjaehrung)
So if you just own 1 or 2 and don't have anything else, you will not get prosecuted. Was trying to find some court rulings, but the only one a wee bit closer was this one:
http://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2016-N-17608?hl=true&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
This guy in jail was NOT able to buy FSK18 films (so not really on the bad bad list, just one below ;) ).

Edit: my opinion as well, that those a bullshit laws, and actually the second page of this link I gave gave some interesting stuff about steam, if people would bother to read.......
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Goodaltgamer

PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016

The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.

The only way to get such a game, you have to import it:
Same article:
Händlern wie auch Verbrauchern drohen bis zu drei Jahre Haft oder Geldstrafe, unabhängig vom Bestehen einer Indizierung.
Seller as well as USER up to 3 years or money
further:
aufgepasst: Gerichte können je nach Zahl der vorhandenen Medien ein „Vorrätighalten“ zum Zwecke der Verbreitung feststellen
If you own more than one game out of this list courts still can safely and legally assume that you horded them for selling.
And as STGB 86 clearly defines:
einführt oder ausführt (imports or exports) is anyone possessing it already breaking the law.
NOW if the police/prosecutor/judge will punish you is another question.
But as you can only have received it by illegal means you would be punishable. If a friend gave it to you, doesn't matter, you would need to name him.
So possession is not ok, it might be ignored, two different things. (unless if you would have more than one)
They really did posted this sentence badly. Unlike a weapon or similar police would normally not make a hassle out of it, yes, unless there would be other indicators. Similar as it was handled a long time with certain drugs. You were not getting prosecuted if for own consumption, BUT according to the law, you still did break the law.
Plus the state would need to prove how long you already have it as otherwise certain limits would have expired. (Verjaehrung)
So if you just own 1 or 2 and don't have anything else, you will not get prosecuted. Was trying to find some court rulings, but the only one a wee bit closer was this one:
http://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2016-N-17608?hl=true&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
This guy in jail was NOT able to buy FSK18 films (so not really on the bad bad list, just one below ;) ).


Edit: my opinion as well, that those a bullshit laws, and actually the second page of this link I gave gave some interesting stuff about steam, if people would bother to read.......
Law might be strange, because it's illegal to buy and to distribute the game, but legal to posess it. But hat's the way it is.
If you don't agree, please show me the paragraph or a single verdict where one was sentenced, because of pure posession of a banned game.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf

Goodaltgamer
New User
Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016

Law might be strange, because it's illegal to buy and to distribute the game, but legal to posess it. But hat's the way it is.
If you don't agree, please show me the paragraph or a single verdict where one was sentenced, because of pure posession of a banned game.
STGB 86
I even explained it, read what I wrote, or better what is written in the law. I even gave you a valid cross reference to check up on it. (hint drugs)
And did you read the second page of the link as well?

bansama
bansama.com
Registered: Oct 2008
From Japan
Posted October 31, 2016

As for blocking access to games in regions after said game had already been available... Personally seen it happen on Steam. I actually had to contact Steam support and ask them to remove a game from the Japan store after the developer placed an IP block on access from Japanese IP addresses. People who already had the game and made in-game purchases, were SOL though. Didn't get that money back.
I also vaguely recall GMG a few years back removing access to their store from a certain country after getting pissed off with someone's support request. But I can't find info on that any more.

Ricky_Bobby
Pan Galactic Inc
Registered: Jun 2014
From Sweden
Posted October 31, 2016

'Also, this is something that only affects a small country that 99% of Americans have never heard of... '.
Yes, compared to the US, Myanmar is a small country.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Ricky_Bobby

Ricky_Bobby
Pan Galactic Inc
Registered: Jun 2014
From Sweden
Posted October 31, 2016

P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course
It feels like such a childish and spoiled thing to complain about for someone living in a dictatorship that had serious human rights violations, not to mention the risk to personal safety by being a foreigner (probably Westerner) living in such a country.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Ricky_Bobby

Cadaver747
Registered: Mar 2009
From Russian Federation
Posted October 31, 2016

P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course

It feels like such a childish and spoiled thing to complain about for someone living in a dictatorship that had serious human rights violations, not to mention the risk to personal safety by being a foreigner (probably Westerner) living in such a country.
Steam sells Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (+ Vietnam), I might suggest that the OP is a fan of fast paced multiplayer FPS and he loves to play Battlefield 4 a lot, like many others prefer Call of Duty or Halo, or Overwatch or something else.
Personally I don't like those games, but I can easily understand his dissapointment. I would feel the same if US puts Russia in some black list for media content (incl. video games) and Origin forbids me to play Dragon Age 2 or Command & Conquer games.
Don't you really see a point here? It's all about exlusives bought for real money and restricted because of some political bull shit interpretation by EA.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Cadaver747

sanscript
Ltd. DeepSeeker
Registered: Jul 2011
From Norway
Posted October 31, 2016

This is exactly same thing as with PeePee (paypal) and Visa; even if there's no direct laws as to WHY they're still blocking/banning, they are being owned by powerful organizations that would stop at nothing to enforce a policy, which we today would call fascism. Even Obama said 10/7/2016 that the embargo was considered absolved, so my hypothesis is that there is something else behind the curtains.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/burma_eo_termination.pdf
EDIT: They've always known what the status quo have been in those countries.
Why start now with the blocking or banning? First they have a open door policy to those countries, makes lots of cash - and then just deny their costumers their rightful access. Think about it; EA would never consider blocking France or Sweden for what ever reason! This type of "hostage-situation" is exactly what we see more often of today.
Every hundred years or so this continues like a cycle. It's like a kindergarten-fascism-epidemi; A spreading mentality to punish or deny access for a human just because (s)he happens to live in a country where the rulers don't play fair, or by another ideology. It should be the other way around: EA should be denied access to every country when they act like that. EA should be forced to open up access again, pay back, or take a heavy fine.
Unfortunately, EA (like many others) will continue like a benign bully.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by sanscript