Posted November 17, 2016
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Falkenherz
Child of the Sun
Registered: Apr 2012
From Germany
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Starmaker
go Clarice!
Registered: Sep 2010
From Russian Federation
Posted November 17, 2016
Dying in Sunless Sea is terrible. The game doesn't really support retries:
- Writing a will is a major PITA and hurts your current captain: you can only pass on Treasures or collections of Artifacts (basically less-liquid money) that you had set aside and thus took out of the current captain's funds. Instead, get a Scion asap and pick the two legacies which give you bonuses to the two useful stats and 50% of the dead captain's total money each (for a total of 100%, duh). Other choices are traps; thus, you're punished for trying a character different from the one you're playing -- obviously not replay-friendly.
- Combat is a trap, because of ship and equipment prices and fuel consumption. Combat only has three modes:
(1) starting ship, no upgrades: avoid everything.
(2) starting ship, best gun which fits: kill an annoying crab every once in a while.
(3) frigate, two best guns: kill stuff for quest components.
- Trading is a boring waste of time. Only a few routes are profitable, and you sail around repeating them and seeing the cash total go up. Trading while you're doing quests isn't possible: your hold is filled with essentials and quest items. Better to advance several quests along the way and hope for decent payoff than advance one and waste fuel on repeat trips.
- Everything is largely the same when you restart; you repeat the same damn quests in the same damn way.
- It's not a proper roguelike. It isn't designed to bear out "winning" in the objective sense because you can grind for improving the odds of most action resolutions in absolute safety. The purpose is to procedurally generate an entertaining story, and it's up to you to decide what odds you personally find entertaining... and then it punishes you for choosing to not grind and to not win all the time by sneaking a lolrandom death.
- Requirements are not listed consistently. It's not possible to know beforehand if an option with requirements will deduct them from your inventory or not when it should be known in the context of the story.
- More generally, consequences intentionally make no sense because everything is oh so surreal. The devs tried to mitigate the problem by putting warnings on options which will kill you (typically "Do not do this" in blue text), then went back on that by marking at least one harmless option in the same way. Some consequences are secretly randomized, good luck figuring out which if you get a bad outcome the first time around.
To summarize, if you die to a story event, combat or poverty, it's because you didn't know the proper response or were just plain unlucky to get noticed by a monster or to not stumble onto profitable story events, and you get better at the game by learning the best options and retreading the correct path with the same character, at the expense of discovery and fun.
---
That being said, the new winning condition introduced in Zubmariner is awesome, and it's all about not dying. Dying sucks in this game. Don't do it.
- Writing a will is a major PITA and hurts your current captain: you can only pass on Treasures or collections of Artifacts (basically less-liquid money) that you had set aside and thus took out of the current captain's funds. Instead, get a Scion asap and pick the two legacies which give you bonuses to the two useful stats and 50% of the dead captain's total money each (for a total of 100%, duh). Other choices are traps; thus, you're punished for trying a character different from the one you're playing -- obviously not replay-friendly.
- Combat is a trap, because of ship and equipment prices and fuel consumption. Combat only has three modes:
(1) starting ship, no upgrades: avoid everything.
(2) starting ship, best gun which fits: kill an annoying crab every once in a while.
(3) frigate, two best guns: kill stuff for quest components.
- Trading is a boring waste of time. Only a few routes are profitable, and you sail around repeating them and seeing the cash total go up. Trading while you're doing quests isn't possible: your hold is filled with essentials and quest items. Better to advance several quests along the way and hope for decent payoff than advance one and waste fuel on repeat trips.
- Everything is largely the same when you restart; you repeat the same damn quests in the same damn way.
- It's not a proper roguelike. It isn't designed to bear out "winning" in the objective sense because you can grind for improving the odds of most action resolutions in absolute safety. The purpose is to procedurally generate an entertaining story, and it's up to you to decide what odds you personally find entertaining... and then it punishes you for choosing to not grind and to not win all the time by sneaking a lolrandom death.
- Requirements are not listed consistently. It's not possible to know beforehand if an option with requirements will deduct them from your inventory or not when it should be known in the context of the story.
- More generally, consequences intentionally make no sense because everything is oh so surreal. The devs tried to mitigate the problem by putting warnings on options which will kill you (typically "Do not do this" in blue text), then went back on that by marking at least one harmless option in the same way. Some consequences are secretly randomized, good luck figuring out which if you get a bad outcome the first time around.
To summarize, if you die to a story event, combat or poverty, it's because you didn't know the proper response or were just plain unlucky to get noticed by a monster or to not stumble onto profitable story events, and you get better at the game by learning the best options and retreading the correct path with the same character, at the expense of discovery and fun.
---
That being said, the new winning condition introduced in Zubmariner is awesome, and it's all about not dying. Dying sucks in this game. Don't do it.
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dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Posted November 17, 2016
Some other examples:
Back to Zelda: OoT, dying while using the hookshot will push you upwards. (You will need a fairy to revive you for this to be useful.)
In Pokemon RBY, dying to a trainer allows you to use the trainer for a glitch while still having him (or her) available to do more glitching.
A non-speedrun non-glitch example:
In VVVVVV, there is one trinket (Prize for the Reckless) that requires a deathwarp to obtain.
Back to Zelda: OoT, dying while using the hookshot will push you upwards. (You will need a fairy to revive you for this to be useful.)
In Pokemon RBY, dying to a trainer allows you to use the trainer for a glitch while still having him (or her) available to do more glitching.
A non-speedrun non-glitch example:
In VVVVVV, there is one trinket (Prize for the Reckless) that requires a deathwarp to obtain.
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Lin545
May. 24, 2022
Registered: Jun 2011
From Russian Federation
Posted November 17, 2016
Same with Don't Starve - you unlock characters upon death, depending how long you survive.
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Anothername
StubbornOldGamer
Registered: Sep 2008
From Germany
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Kleetus
For Internal Use Only
Registered: Sep 2010
From Australia
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advancedhero
Never really left
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted November 17, 2016
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Evidently my take on this was wrong.
That point regarded, it's still probably my favorite NES game.
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Bad Hair Day
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
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KiNgBrAdLeY7
Слава России! ура́
Registered: Apr 2012
From Other
Posted November 18, 2016
Pokemon gen1 old man glitch, mew glitch, encounter glitch... You find the trainer(s) whose pokemons' stats bring the thing you want but you 'd better faint/loose, or else you can't challenge them again...
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zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
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Bad Hair Day
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted November 18, 2016
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What's the best way you can recommend to go through it? Should I use a map?
And neither is Zebes:
http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Metroid/MetroidCompleateMap.png
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zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
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eksasol
Noitch
Registered: Mar 2011
From United States
Posted November 18, 2016
Surprised no one mentioned Planescape Torment.
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Ricky_Bobby
Pan Galactic Inc
Registered: Jun 2014
From Sweden
Posted November 18, 2016
Post edited November 18, 2016 by Ricky_Bobby
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WBGhiro
New User
Registered: Dec 2008
From Germany