Posted June 13, 2018
WinterSnowfall
Bastard Lunatic
WinterSnowfall Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Romania
toxicTom
Big Daddy
toxicTom Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2009
From Germany
Posted June 13, 2018
I have the brown withered thumb of decay... Anything even remotely related to farming fails when I'm present, and that includes WoW...
kdgog
New User
kdgog Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted June 14, 2018
Post edited June 14, 2018 by kdgog
vidsgame
Lost in a Cloud
vidsgame Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2014
From United States
Trilarion
New User
Trilarion Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2010
From Germany
Posted June 14, 2018
mechmouse: ... Its not really DRM on multiplayer, more an account based validation to access a service (the MP server).
You need to separate the concepts of software and service.
If i'm using a hosted service I've no qualms with using an account to access them, I'm also aware that access to that service is finite. Which is why I like to have a LAN option for my games.
Hmm, not sure the distinction is really as clear as you present it. You need to separate the concepts of software and service.
If i'm using a hosted service I've no qualms with using an account to access them, I'm also aware that access to that service is finite. Which is why I like to have a LAN option for my games.
The game is mostly software running on the customers home computer and on the server computer. The service part could be seen as only consisting of providing the external hardware. In principle this hardware could exist independent (i.e. with the possibility to setup your own server). Especially in the modern cloud computing age, this should be no problem for everyone to get access to external compatible hardware. For massively multiplayer servers this might still be a bit inconvenient and some servers might indeed require maintenance and there are concerns regarding things like leader boards, match making or cheating, but they are not regarded as total road block. Especially for MP games with a low number of players per game (say less than 10), where you know the other players, there is no fundamental need for DRM in MP games. For these games GOG could actually do something but mostly doesn't and isn't better than Steam.
So, it all hinges on this little detail: The software running the servers is not a service but just a software. Not selling it and calling it a service, doesn't really make it so or at least the distinction becomes much less clear. Keeping the server under their own control is effectively a measure to check on the validity of the customer, how can that not be DRM?
What I would love is if for every but the most massively multiplayer games there are official servers that you can connect to but there are also unofficial servers too. Only this would be fully in the spirit of DRM free. DRM free means trusting the customer. If there is no such trust, DRM free doesn't really makes sense and if there is, DRM doesn't make sense, even for multiplayer games.
Post edited June 14, 2018 by Trilarion
brouer
New Mouser
brouer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2015
From Denmark
Posted June 14, 2018
clarry: That's the DRM free option. Except that "LAN" is a silly artificial restriction. If you can connect between computers on a local area network freely, then you really should be able to connect between computers across the internet freely.
That's not how IPv4 works. But it would be nice if the server SW was freely available for all my GOGgy multiplayer games.
Then I might someday get to play them as such.
Currently, I simply don't have time for anything multiplayer, other than the occasional Minecraft of Xbox game with my son.
clarry
New User
clarry Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2014
From Other
Posted June 14, 2018
clarry: That's the DRM free option. Except that "LAN" is a silly artificial restriction. If you can connect between computers on a local area network freely, then you really should be able to connect between computers across the internet freely.
brouer: That's not how IPv4 works. IPv4 doesn't give a fuck. There's a route or there is no route. Switch, hub, or router -- none of it matters to the application, as long as there is a route. Routing is handled by your OS and the routers in turn.
Post edited June 14, 2018 by clarry
StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
StingingVelvet Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted June 14, 2018
How many people are really involved in these "controversies" though, one wonders. There are quite a few loud members of the forum upset by these things, but I bet overall Galaxy and profiles were highly requested features by GOG users.
sanscript
Choose τ over π
sanscript Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2011
From Norway
Posted June 14, 2018
clarry: That's the DRM free option. Except that "LAN" is a silly artificial restriction. If you can connect between computers on a local area network freely, then you really should be able to connect between computers across the internet freely.
brouer: That's not how IPv4 works. But yeah, LAN, MAN, WAN, CAN what ever etc really just doesn't matter, and I've always hated the fact that tests and schools are still maintaining the archaic notion that such things are important...
I mean, a bridge is a bridge, doesn't matter for the cars and trucks, no matter where it is, only that both sides agrees on the construction plans and type of material.
Themken
Old user
Themken Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From Other
Posted June 15, 2018
I have games that I do not really have as the bloody misbehaving copy protection is hindering me from playing them. Not going to pay for those again.
Trilarion
New User
Trilarion Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2010
From Germany
Posted June 15, 2018
Trilarion: Are you aware of the controversies regarding regional prices, Galaxy opt out bundled installers, public profiles of everyone?
StingingVelvet: How many people are really involved in these "controversies" though, one wonders. There are quite a few loud members of the forum upset by these things, but I bet overall Galaxy and profiles were highly requested features by GOG users. Post edited June 15, 2018 by Trilarion
brouer
New Mouser
brouer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2015
From Denmark
Posted June 15, 2018
Yes.
But how is the game supposed to establish that route over the internet in any reliable fashion?
Hole punching?
If you've already enabled the requisite port forwarding and/or set up a VPN, then sure.
But then you've got the LAN (alike) thing up and running, and wasn't that what you felt was a "silly artificial restriction", or did I misunderstand?
Then, if you can set up your own VPN, you're not the typical customer type you can really expect game companies to focus their efforts on supporting. They will always go for the solution that works for the masses: Internet servers.
I just wish all games still included a LAN option, so this was even a possibility.
Alternatively, GOG open sourcing Galaxy, so we could build our own Galaxy clients and multiplayer servers!
But how is the game supposed to establish that route over the internet in any reliable fashion?
Hole punching?
If you've already enabled the requisite port forwarding and/or set up a VPN, then sure.
But then you've got the LAN (alike) thing up and running, and wasn't that what you felt was a "silly artificial restriction", or did I misunderstand?
Then, if you can set up your own VPN, you're not the typical customer type you can really expect game companies to focus their efforts on supporting. They will always go for the solution that works for the masses: Internet servers.
I just wish all games still included a LAN option, so this was even a possibility.
Alternatively, GOG open sourcing Galaxy, so we could build our own Galaxy clients and multiplayer servers!
PookaMustard
モニカ。モニカだけ。
PookaMustard Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2013
From Other
Posted June 15, 2018
vidsgame: I do also think that many developers stay on Steam because it's easier to update games on there and I've read around here that it has mainly to do with Steamworks but I'm no developer so I'm uncertain about what exactly goes into updating a game so that's why I have to go out of my way to look into that constantly. Recently, there have been games dropped from GOG because for one reason or another they were behind on their updates.
We have hit the point where the difficulty of updating games is no longer a viable excuse for developers to not update their GOG builds, all thanks to GOG's devportal. GOG has been steadily working to provide every little feature to tempt developers to see us in the same light as Steam but DRM-free (just slow if anything). As for the DRM-free filter on Steam, they obviously don't want it. For one, it would tell everyone what games don't need their client to run. If it isn't evident by Valve's products having the name "Steam" slapped onto it as if it's some sort of brand, their ultimate goal is to tie you into their own ecosystem. Saying that a game is purely DRM-free means that you can detach from the ecosystem and still play the game. A no-no to them.
I'd say that if there's something we should change, it's the mentality of developers. Rather than target one solution from the start-up, the targeting instead arrives much later where it becomes easier to target several solutions and then some.
Post edited June 15, 2018 by PookaMustard
vidsgame
Lost in a Cloud
vidsgame Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2014
From United States
Posted June 16, 2018
vidsgame: I do also think that many developers stay on Steam because it's easier to update games on there and I've read around here that it has mainly to do with Steamworks but I'm no developer so I'm uncertain about what exactly goes into updating a game so that's why I have to go out of my way to look into that constantly. Recently, there have been games dropped from GOG because for one reason or another they were behind on their updates.
PookaMustard: We have hit the point where the difficulty of updating games is no longer a viable excuse for developers to not update their GOG builds, all thanks to GOG's devportal. GOG has been steadily working to provide every little feature to tempt developers to see us in the same light as Steam but DRM-free (just slow if anything). As for the DRM-free filter on Steam, they obviously don't want it. For one, it would tell everyone what games don't need their client to run. If it isn't evident by Valve's products having the name "Steam" slapped onto it as if it's some sort of brand, their ultimate goal is to tie you into their own ecosystem. Saying that a game is purely DRM-free means that you can detach from the ecosystem and still play the game. A no-no to them.
I'd say that if there's something we should change, it's the mentality of developers. Rather than target one solution from the start-up, the targeting instead arrives much later where it becomes easier to target several solutions and then some.
They still make excuses or maybe they really got no answer from GOG: https://steamcommunity.com/games/322680/announcements/detail/548708052673393561
clarry
New User
clarry Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2014
From Other
Posted June 16, 2018
brouer: Yes.
But how is the game supposed to establish that route over the internet in any reliable fashion?
Hole punching?
If you've already enabled the requisite port forwarding and/or set up a VPN, then sure.
But then you've got the LAN (alike) thing up and running, and wasn't that what you felt was a "silly artificial restriction", or did I misunderstand?
Yes I think you misunderstand. It is quite common for games to try and prevent you from playing online with the "LAN" option. Either they don't let you specify a host IP address at all (they rely on discovering hosts on the same switched/hubbed network) or they refuse to connect to an address outside some specific private IP ranges. That's "LAN" mode with artificial restrictions, and it is common now. They really want to force you to go through accounts and all the tracking to play online at all. But how is the game supposed to establish that route over the internet in any reliable fashion?
Hole punching?
If you've already enabled the requisite port forwarding and/or set up a VPN, then sure.
But then you've got the LAN (alike) thing up and running, and wasn't that what you felt was a "silly artificial restriction", or did I misunderstand?
What I want is what most old games, and some new games provide: "connect to ip." It does not matter what the route to that address is. That is none of the game's business. If there is no end to end connectivity, that is between me and whoever I'm trying to play with. We can sort it out. Please don't try to prevent me.
If they *also* want to provide optional services for hole punching or relaying connections via servers to cross multiple NATs, sure, by all means. Tie it to an account if you will. Just don't force me to use it; the "LAN" mode can already make a direct connection under the hood, se please let me use that functionality if I so prefer.
Setting up a reliable, cross-platform VPN is way more involved (and potentially more risky) than configuring NAT or just using the public IP addresses me and most of my friends have, so I don't agree with making me jump through such hoops when the game could just let me specify the darn host :(
Post edited June 16, 2018 by clarry