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So that was season 25 and 26, and seasons 1 and 2 of the new series done.

The new series is actually very good.

Anyway, it seems like this thread has become my monologue, and since I don't want to be a spammer and will stop posting here unless someone picks up the conversation. So fine, I will continue my marathon nonetheless. See you around.
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jacobmarner: it seems like this thread has become my monologue,
Yeah but I'm reading it.
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jacobmarner: So that was season 25 and 26, and seasons 1 and 2 of the new series done.

The new series is actually very good.

Anyway, it seems like this thread has become my monologue, and since I don't want to be a spammer and will stop posting here unless someone picks up the conversation. So fine, I will continue my marathon nonetheless. See you around.
did you expected it to be not good then ? ;p
it has become massive for a reason

though personally i think the russel t davies series ( doctors 9 and 10 ) are wildly uneven and they reley too much on deus ex machina and the reset button

and the ninth doctors tenure was too short
the most important doctor since the second since the ninth had to restart this whole franchise for a new audiance and make it interesting for said audiance
not an easy task
and 13 episodes later he is gone we never even knew him beyond being damaged goods and survivor guilt

i personally lean more to series 5 which is a soft reboot of the series ( you'll see it all makes sense in the end ...kinda ) and the grand moff's handle of the series

searies 6 and 7 started a trend i rather disliked though and that was chopping the series in two for autumn include the christmas special and then continue 3 months later in spring
its only 14 episodes in all the series arent long enough to pull that stunt

thankfully the bbc stopped doing that with series 8 which brings us to the twelfth ( or fourteenth depending on how you look at it )
but we will talk about that when we get there

from the new series the 11th doctor is my favorite followed by the 9th
the 9th because we know so little of him
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jacobmarner: So that was season 24, and I have now started season 25.

The highlight of Season 24 was that Mel left the doctor and that Ace joined him. Ace is a pretty cool character. Strong in spirit and a lot of energy. She knows about explosives and often have a stash of it. She is rebellious and insists on called the Doctor, "Professor" although he hates it.

All in all I think season 24 was good (except Time and the Rani). I like McCoy as the new doctor. Paradise Towers and Dragonfire was particular enjoyable.
i always liked the happiness patrol
it was a not so subtle allegory of tatchers regime and the kandyman looked rather ridicilous ( in the book he is described as looking more like a whitefaced mime clown which depending on your fear of clowns is even more terrifying and he is easier to take serious like that )

but what i liked most is that the doctor set his mind to toppling the oppressive regime and managed to do that in a single night
and off course his talking down to his would be assassins
that is the point where i gad no problem believing that this was a man who could and would take down a regime in a single night
Post edited May 18, 2015 by snowkatt
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snowkatt: did you expected it to be not good then ? ;p
it has become massive for a reason

though personally i think the russel t davies series ( doctors 9 and 10 ) are wildly uneven and they reley too much on deus ex machina and the reset button

and the ninth doctors tenure was too short
the most important doctor since the second since the ninth had to restart this whole franchise for a new audiance and make it interesting for said audiance
not an easy task
and 13 episodes later he is gone we never even knew him beyond being damaged goods and survivor guilt

i personally lean more to series 5 which is a soft reboot of the series ( you'll see it all makes sense in the end ...kinda ) and the grand moff's handle of the series
I definately liked Davies' era more than Moffat. 11th Doctor was great, but so was 10 and he just had much better stories. I liked seasons 5-7 a lot too, but accept maybe for Vincent and the Doctor there were no episodes in those that would rival The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead or Waters of Mars. I think Moffat relies to heavily on season long story arcs, which is why we never great single, stand alone stories as strong as those were (yes, I know Silence in the Library introduced River Song, but it was a great episode on it's own, would still be even if we never saw her again). Moffat can write a great episode, but I think they work out better with someone else in charge of the show.
Post edited May 18, 2015 by Breja
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snowkatt: did you expected it to be not good then ? ;p
it has become massive for a reason

though personally i think the russel t davies series ( doctors 9 and 10 ) are wildly uneven and they reley too much on deus ex machina and the reset button
I didn't really know what to expect but was pleasently surprised. I can't really comment on the Moffat era yet, but so far my favorite episode is The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and that is written by Steven Moffat. So if that is a sign of the quality to come then I am looking forward to more from him (I like the Star Wars reference Grand Moff - hehe)

Right now I am catching up on some of the things that was released chronologically before the new season 3. So I have seen Torchwood season 1, and the Doctor Who TV Movie from 1996. Ok, but nothing to get excited about. Way to romantic - it didn't really feel like the Doctor.

Right now I am focusing some of the animated series made in the early 2000s. Right now I am seeing BBCi's webcast animation in 6 episodes "Real Time". So far it is ok, but it cannot really compete with the real series.
Post edited May 19, 2015 by jacobmarner
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jacobmarner: and the Doctor Who TV Movie from 1996. Ok, but nothing to get excited about. Way to romantic - it didn't really feel like the Doctor.
The movie is not great (not as terrible as some would have it either), but I love Paul McGann as the Doctor. Despite having only two on screen appeariances he is my favourite. I would be ecstatic if he got another tv movie or a mini-series with the 8th Doctor. I still don't get why it didn't happen after the Night of the Doctor. People were practically begging for it, he expressed interest in it, and with the show at the height of it's popularity it would only make sense to produce a spin-off like this for the long, long wait time between seasons.
Post edited May 19, 2015 by Breja
Saw through "Real Time" from 2002 (in Real Player format) and are now on to "Scream of the Shalka" from 2003 (in Flash 4 format). There is a webcast version of "Shada" (2003).

For those interested they are all available here in the BBC archives: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/webcasts/

However I saw Real Time on Youtube instead. Realplayer is such a pain since it need to actually stream it from the website.

Real Time was actually a pretty good story - can easily compete with some of the later ones. So if you haven't seen it you should check it out.
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snowkatt: though personally i think the russel t davies series ( doctors 9 and 10 ) are wildly uneven and they reley too much on deus ex machina and the reset button
Bingo. Now, I have my own fair share of problems with Moffat's writing with Matt Smith, but I was really taken aback at the backlash that greeted Season 5, even though it had some great episodes like Vincent and the Doctor, and The Beast Below (hell I enjoyed Victory of the Daleks and The Lodger, too). It's why I somewhat half-jokingly like to say to Moffat/Smith naysayers in my social circles that they're not really Doctor Who fans...they're really more David Tennant fans who just happen to like a part of Doctor Who. (And that's usually because they never even watched the show post-"The End of Time", and have almost no recollection of Eccleston's doctor at all, let alone Paul McGann or any of the "Classic" doctors.)

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snowkatt: and the ninth doctors tenure was too short
the most important doctor since the second since the ninth had to restart this whole franchise for a new audiance and make it interesting for said audiance
not an easy task
and 13 episodes later he is gone we never even knew him beyond being damaged goods and survivor guilt
Indeed, I think that, right alongside other SF/F "What Ifs" like Firefly Season 2, or Enterprise Season 4 (or a full BSG: Blood and Chrome series, or a version of B5 - Crusade which didn't suck), is what would have happened if Eccleston got the same amount of time as Tennant and Smith. We could have had a fantastic take on what happened during the Great Time War and how the Time Lords were destroyed...instead of...well, what we actually got.

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snowkatt: i personally lean more to series 5 which is a soft reboot of the series ( you'll see it all makes sense in the end ...kinda ) and the grand moff's handle of the series
It was good entry point for people new to the series (like me), but where things started to go downhill were The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang. I think that's where the quality of the show as a whole really started to decline for me, in that we saw Moffat's overindulgent love for insanely fast and frenetic plots all wrapped up by a series of ridiculous contrived conveniences that all fold back in on each other like some insane moebius loop.

All in all, I'm of mixed feelings with Moffat. I really loved his writing in places, and some of his characters (like the Vastra/Jennie/Strax trio) are just awesome. Under his direction we got some fanastic stories like Vincent and the Doctor, and The God Complex. But his portrayal of the Last Great Time War was utter rubbish (and it even broke my partner on the show completely), and after seeing Yet Another episode where some insane mile-a-minute plan relying on ridiculous conveniences saves everyone at the last minute, I've gotten really tired of Moffat's MO (telling a non-linear story with constant narrative threads going in different directions, only to lead back on each other worked great in Jekyll, but he takes it to an insane extreme in Doctor Who).

I love Capaldi as The Doctor. He literally gives zero fucks, and he doesn't give a shit about what you think of that. Unfortunately he's hamstrung by a lame companion, whose plot arc with Danny Pink ends on a profoundly disappointing note. I really wish he could have stayed; I think Pink living through his trauma would have made for a great foil for the Doctor's brashness.

In short, I've had a good time with Moffat, but it's time for him -- and us -- to move on.
For those interested, I made an online spreadsheet to track progress in this marathon. I try to cover a full year before going to the next.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mjIITu_lUV8h2j1LIfm6PO8R5eHJU_Nl27R6efF2Kmk/edit?usp=sharing

At the moment I am in 2003.
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jacobmarner: and the Doctor Who TV Movie from 1996. Ok, but nothing to get excited about. Way to romantic - it didn't really feel like the Doctor.
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Breja: The movie is not great (not as terrible as some would have it either), but I love Paul McGann as the Doctor. Despite having only two on screen appeariances he is my favourite. I would be ecstatic if he got another tv movie or a mini-series with the 8th Doctor.
The webcast "Shada" has Paul McGann as the Doctor. Was that the second appearance you referred to?
Post edited May 20, 2015 by jacobmarner
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Breja: The movie is not great (not as terrible as some would have it either), but I love Paul McGann as the Doctor. Despite having only two on screen appeariances he is my favourite. I would be ecstatic if he got another tv movie or a mini-series with the 8th Doctor.
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jacobmarner: The webcast "Shada" has Paul McGann as the Doctor. Was that the second appearance you referred to?
No (though that fun too, but hardly counts). I meant The Night of the Doctor- a live action mini episode that served as a prequel/prologue to the 50th anniversary special. Great little thing.
I just wrapped up the BBCi webcasts and then saw (or played?) the interactive episode "Attack of the Graske" (December 2005) for interactive TV. A bit lame. It is available in web browsers here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/sjSBglRVdmy7jDSylGpKN4/attack-of-the-graske

I then wrapped up season 1 of Doctor Who Confidential thereby finishing 2005. And now on to 2006.

The primary thing that surprised me in Doctor Who Confidential was how different David Tennant's (the 10th doctor) dialect is different in real life compared to his character in the series - I am no expert in dialects, but I think he sounds much more Welch in the interviews.

Also funny is the fact that Russell Davis multiple times says that the sonic screw driver should be remove insignificant obstacles (like doors), but it should never solve the real problem. But already in the Christmas invasion episode does this change as the doctor blows up the attacking Christmas tree with it.
Post edited May 20, 2015 by jacobmarner
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jacobmarner: The primary thing that surprised me in Doctor Who Confidential was how different David Tennant's (the 10th doctor) dialect is different in real life compared to his character in the series - I am no expert in dialects, but I think he sounds much more Welch in the interviews.
I think he is scottish.
I finished the (new) series - well, almost, I still haven't see the latest christmas special, and, well... Here's my trajectory.

1° Pre-new-series, I simply loathed Dr Who. It was that odd clumsy weird-looking series that everyone was mentionning instead of its "concurrent", the incredibly awesome Prisoner. So, no interest at all. I have recently try to get into them, and I still can't stomach their pace and clumsily theatrical filming style.

2° The new series started. I saw glimpses of it, and just couldn't get it. It looked like a terribly cheesy attempt at suspence, taking itself too seriously for the effects or plots it provided.

3° Started watching it seriously. A full episode is enough to explain its tone, indeed half-way between tension and self-aware cheese. Easy-going writing, not talking itself seriously, yet managing to smuggle in some real emotions. I completely adored it.

4° I adored Eccleston (and his darkness), I'm both frustrated by his short run, and thinking that it's what made it so intense. I also adored Tennant. These both runs are almost flawless to me. Despite the Dr Who clichés (the tedious last minute reset button plot device), there is no not-completely-awesome episode I'm aware of. I loved Rose, I found Martha a bit too bland (a bit unrealistically "perfect"), I adored Donna. Great series.

Parenthesis : I watched Torchwood, and found it very immature, as most series trying to "look mature", or catering to a public who wants to "feel mature". The later seasons got way more watchable than the first one, but still, not really my thing. Paradoxally, I found Captain Jack much more cool and attaching in Torchwood than in Doctor Who (he annoyed me in Doctor Who), but the rest of the characters were way too unlikeable for me to care for them, and this neutralized too much of the intended drama. I also watched a bit of Sarah Jane Adventures, and, well, okay, like most people above 5 years old, I am not the targetted audience. I think that trying to split Dr Who into more targetted by-products was a mistake that harmed the whole franchise, even after the end of these secondary series.

5° I wasn't convinced by Matt Smith at the beginning, he seemed to "try too much" acting super drwhoishly. But he got better and turned out a great doctor. I liked his supporting cast a lot, too. But I ceased to enjoy the plots. It seemed to orientate itself towards a more kiddy audience (coloured plastic Daleks, etc). I still enjoy the gratuitously over-complicated plots (the "and now it gets complicated" line in the Pandorica episodes was a real joy -and burst of laugh- for me), but I ceased to care for their stakes. I also don't care much for the River Song character (although the very principle of opposing timelines is totally sweet). And, well, I ended watching it exclusively for the characters banter, and forgetting the plots right after each episode. These seasons have the only episodes that I can have glimpses of without recognising them, or remembering whether I saw them already (although I know I've seen them all systematically). In contrast, each episode of the Eccleston/Tennant era is memorable to me.

6° This trend continued with Capaldi. I find him cool as a character, I like an older and more sociopathic Doctor, although his acting doesn't always 100% convince me. I also think that he balances the Oswald character way better than Matt Smith did - as she acts basically like an 11th doctor duplicate. Still, extremely forgettable plots, and also, the editing itself worsened a lot (the filming of "Mummy in the orient-express" actually reminded me of Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, not a good sign).

7° Suprisingly, the last two episodes ("Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven") really stood out, and I rate them as Eccleston/Tennent-era quality. Maybe because of their touch of darkness. But not only. The characters (the Missi - btw thanks a lot for the spoilers, guys), their acting, the surprising plot itself (the plot function of the dark water)... Cool stuff.

Globally, I think I like the Moffat style. Many of my favorite episodes were written by him, and, as I said, I enjoy absurdly convoluted plots, as well as sneaky season archs. However, there are things that annoy me increasingly with that series. The increasingly heavy HEAVY heavy-handed political messages make me cringe, even though they are totally inline with my own worldviews. The plot devices that support them are sometimes just dishonest, especially as, thanks to various deus ex machina, no difficult ethical choice ever comes at any real cost. Also, the recurring lampshading of the Doctor's demiurge ambiguity (if he dangerously overpowered, is he an evil irresponsible goody-two-shoes, etc) are terribly superficial. The "Water of Mars" era dealt with it fantastically. But nowadays, the answer is "am i good am i evil, none, i'm just dumb lol" (cue to dilemma-lifting deus ex machina). That is lazy, cowardly, and unforgivable as the question (itself not necessarily a honest, relevant one) is openly asked without being honestly tackled.

So, there we are. I'm still following that series out of habit. But my excitement has progressivel faded during Matt Smith's tenure, not due to the actors or characters, but to the plots. I sometimes wonder if their quality is objectively decreasing, or if it's a subjective effect of my fatigue (you can chew on that gum only so long), but it may very well be an effect of both - and possibly of the writers' fatigue as well. How many times, how many ways, can you recombine the Dr Who obligatory tropes, before looking completely artificial...
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Breja: I think he is scottish.
Yeah, much more than Billie Piper.
Post edited May 20, 2015 by Telika
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Telika: 5° I wasn't convinced by Matt Smith at the beginning, he seemed to "try too much" acting super drwhoishly. But he got better and turned out a great doctor. I liked his supporting cast a lot, too. But I ceased to enjoy the plots...

6° This trend continued with Capaldi. I find him cool as a character, I like an older and more sociopathic Doctor, although his acting doesn't always 100% convince me.
I feel like with every new Doctor/Companion in NuWho there's always an initial period where everyone's trying to find themselves in their respective roles, and the writers are still trying to find ways to best use the characters and their respective traits. For me, the turning point was "The Almost People" and "Flesh and Bone"; IMO those were great episodes which really highlighted Matt Smith finding himself as The Doctor.

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Telika: In contrast, each episode of the Eccleston/Tennant era is memorable to me.
Really? Even the infamous episode "Love and Monsters"? (Which I, for the record, thought was kinda cute.) :P

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Telika: 7° Suprisingly, the last two episodes ("Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven") really stood out, and I rate them as Eccleston/Tennent-era quality. Maybe because of their touch of darkness. But not only. The characters (the Missi - btw thanks a lot for the spoilers, guys), their acting, the surprising plot itself (the plot function of the dark water)... Cool stuff.
Funnily enough, I actually disliked them for the same reasons that you liked Moffat's writing -- an insanely convoluted plot relying on Deus Ex Machinas. I will say though, seeing the imagery of Cybermen rampaging through London á la 1960's-era Who was a pretty fun sight to see.

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Telika: The increasingly heavy HEAVY heavy-handed political messages make me cringe, even though they are totally inline with my own worldviews.
I've never fully gotten where all of the rage has come from over this. We had plenty of heavy-handed socio-political messages in SF/F shows such as Star Trek (across TOS, TNG and DS9 to name a few), as well as Babylon 5 and Stargate: SG1.

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Telika: The plot devices that support them are sometimes just dishonest, especially as, thanks to various deus ex machina, no difficult ethical choice ever comes at any real cost. Also, the recurring lampshading of the Doctor's demiurge ambiguity (if he dangerously overpowered, is he an evil irresponsible goody-two-shoes, etc) are terribly superficial. The "Water of Mars" era dealt with it fantastically. But nowadays, the answer is "am i good am i evil, none, i'm just dumb lol" (cue to dilemma-lifting deus ex machina). That is lazy, cowardly, and unforgivable as the question (itself not necessarily a honest, relevant one) is openly asked without being honestly tackled.
I couldn't agree with you more on this. The Day of the Doctor was something I found absolutely insulting in that it basically invalidated one of the most compelling characteristics of modern Doctor Who. All of that character development over three actors and seven seasons, just gone. The Doctor was able to get his cake and eat it too. So why should we care about his character now? He got a whole new regeneration cycle, saved Clara, saved the town, and saved the Time Lords... where does he go from there?
Post edited May 20, 2015 by rampancy