It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionDOSBox rendering defaults must be overhauled(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
This is my favourite topic
Posted December 23, 2015
avatar
SCPM: I do make most of these changes, but the image produced with scaler set to none is too blurry for me. Perhaps it depends on the game, but here's an example where I only changed the scaler.
avatar
jtsn: The aspect ratio in all your screenshots is wrong. This is how it's supposed to look like:
The aspect ratio of the game itself seems to be correct. Those are just heavily cropped images.
Attachments:
biomenace.png (42 Kb)
Posted December 24, 2015
Thank you for this post. I tested these settings with a few games and they all work great (Daggerfall still has choppy cutscences but that was the case w/ the other output settings as well).
Posted December 24, 2015
avatar
jtsn: The bicubic rounding by the hardware upscaler is correct behavior
I would argue that there is no correct behaviour, just individual preferences. Which is fine.
Posted December 26, 2015
avatar
jtsn: The bicubic rounding by the hardware upscaler is correct behavior
avatar
Rixasha: I would argue that there is no correct behaviour, just individual preferences. Which is fine.
There is correct as in "intended by game designer". The artwork was designed for 4:3 CRT screens, not for a simulation of a low-resolution (phone) LCD with big visible square pixels. This is also the reason why SD video is upscaled the same way (because it was made for exactly the same output device).
Posted December 26, 2015
avatar
Rixasha: I would argue that there is no correct behaviour, just individual preferences. Which is fine.
This.
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
Gengar78: Thank you for this post. I tested these settings with a few games and they all work great (Daggerfall still has choppy cutscences but that was the case w/ the other output settings as well).
I had the same problem -- it's easily fixed by simply changing the CPU cycles setting (Ctrl + F11 / Ctrl + F12) during the title cutscene (just before the main menu comes up), adjusting up or down as necessary until the sound & video are no longer choppy (I had to reduce the number by a few presses of Ctrl + F11; don't remember what the actual cycles value was). Then you can change the config file later to whatever value worked for you., so as not to have to manually adjust the cycles every time. : )
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
Xel.naga: Don't bother go over to Vogons and tell them about this or ask other things. They will flame you so bad.
I just asked a question there. Unfortunately they weren't very helpful.
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
grinninglich: I just asked a question there. Unfortunately they weren't very helpful.
Heh, told you.
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
jtsn: The rendering defaults for DOSBox games (especially VGA mode 13) haven't changed since the introduction of GOG in 2008. Now that widescreen LCDs and modern Windows versions everywhere they should be overhauled.

First, the default renderer choice is Surface, which should be changed to Overlay. Overlay works everywhere and supports hardware scaling, so there is no reason to not use it.

Scaler should set to None by default, because that's a thing the GPU hardware can do better with better looking results.

Aspect ratio correction should be enabled by default, there is no "automatic correction" like on 4:3 CRTs anymore. 16:10 is not the correct aspect ratio for DOS games and LCDs will stretch them like that without correction.

Fullscreen resolution should be set to "desktop". DOSBox should not switch resolutions on LCDs, especially because the DOS-typical low resolutions aren't supported anymore by modern GPUs (and neither by Windows). Doing upscaling multiple times (once by DOSBox, once by LCD) makes the games look way worse.

TL;DR: DOSBox defaults should be changed to:

[sdl]
fullresolution=desktop
output=overlay

[render]
aspect=true
scaler=none

The DOSBox configurator shoud be updated accordingly.
I have LCD monitor but also a Samsung SyncMaster CRT monitor. Should i change any setting you suggested?
Posted December 27, 2015
high rated
Great topic, and I agree that the settings should be changed, although I disagree with the solution :)

Some might know my GOG DOSBox tweak guides and the settings I recommend are:

[sdl]
fullresolution=0x0 (but I usually just enter the native resolution of my monitor which is 1920x1080)
output=opengl

[render]
aspect=true
scaler=normal3x

I have tested these with Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics and my viewers haven't had any issues with them.

The opengl render gives you a slightly softer look, which masks the different sizes of pixels a little bit. If you want sharp pixels try openglnb which disabled bilinear filtering.

Jtsn, your settings don't work for me. Just like SCPM, the image looks like an old Nintendo connected through composite.

I've attached two external HDMI captures to show what it looks like on the screen.
Attachments:
jtsn_settings.jpg (187 Kb)
philscomputerlab.jpg (214 Kb)
Post edited December 27, 2015 by philscomputerlab
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
Xel.naga: Don't bother go over to Vogons and tell them about this or ask other things. They will flame you so bad.
avatar
grinninglich: I just asked a question there. Unfortunately they weren't very helpful.
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46102&p=465543#p465543

Define helpful

There is no such thing as an "ultimate" Dosbox config. Trying to do so is a pointless exercise. You can set things up to suit your preferences and what you think is "ultimate" but by no means is it necessarily so.

As far as help on vogons: GIGO.
Post edited December 27, 2015 by DosFreak
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
jtsn: There is correct as in "intended by game designer". The artwork was designed for 4:3 CRT screens, not for a simulation of a low-resolution (phone) LCD with big visible square pixels.
But I don't think that bilinear filtering makes it any more "as intended by game designer" than without, just blurry. I like crisp pixels myself, but if you want it to look more like a CRT, may I suggest scaler=tv2x? It's pretty close, just needs any other scaling to play nice with it so that the scanlines remain uniformly spaced.
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
Gengar78: Thank you for this post. I tested these settings with a few games and they all work great (Daggerfall still has choppy cutscences but that was the case w/ the other output settings as well).
avatar
HunchBluntley: I had the same problem -- it's easily fixed by simply changing the CPU cycles setting (Ctrl + F11 / Ctrl + F12) during the title cutscene (just before the main menu comes up), adjusting up or down as necessary until the sound & video are no longer choppy (I had to reduce the number by a few presses of Ctrl + F11; don't remember what the actual cycles value was). Then you can change the config file later to whatever value worked for you., so as not to have to manually adjust the cycles every time. : )
If I raise the cpu cycles to make the cut-scene play properly won't that mean I'll have to lower it when it's over or else the game will play faster than intended?
Posted December 27, 2015
high rated
avatar
jtsn: output=overlay scaler=none aspect=true doesn't add any lines or pixels anywhere. It just tells the hardware scaler to keep a 4:3 aspect ratio for 4:3 games.
I'm sorry but that's bullshit. This is from the DOSBox Wiki:

"aspect = true | false
Do aspect correction. It only affects non-square pixel modes like VGA Mode 13h, which has a resolution of 320x200 pixels and is used by many DOS games (DOOM, etc). Recommended as such games were designed for 4:3 displays, and without aspect correction will look distorted and not as the developer intended.
Default is false."

As Strijkbout was trying to tell you: many DOS games run in 320x200 resolution (which is NOT 4:3) but were designed for 4:3 monitors. The horizontal density of the pixels on screen was higher than the vertical one and the developers took that into account when making the graphics and/or defining the speeds in gameplay. And that's the only thing that aspect=true is about. You can read some more about it here.

Anyway, whether the original aspect ratio is maintained depends on the renderer you choose. I preferably use opengl (actually openglnb, because I hate the default opengl filtering) which actually scales the image up as far as possible while maintaining the aspect ratio.
avatar
jtsn: Also note that a 1995 DOS game is not intended to look like a 2015 "retro-style" iPad pixel game. The bicubic rounding by the hardware upscaler is correct behavior and actually improves the image quality of games originally targeted at 4:3 CRT monitors with round pixels.
You are correct that those games were designed for CRTs and the image looks very different on CRTs than it does on LCDs, however, no simple filter gets even close to how the games were "intended to look". Not to mention that CRTs also heavily differed among each other. Here you have two photos taken directly from two different CRTs: woop. Round pixels my ass. If you want to get even remotely close to how the games were intended to look you will need to use a shader, the filtering that the hardware applies to the output texture is eye cancerous shit and results in an infinitely blurrier image than what good CRTs looked like.
Posted December 27, 2015
avatar
Gengar78: If I raise the cpu cycles to make the cut-scene play properly won't that mean I'll have to lower it when it's over or else the game will play faster than intended?
1.) If your DOSBox preset for Daggerfall is anything like mine (I'm using the Wiwiland version), the problem is that the number of cycles is too high, and you'll have to lower it (though, again, this might vary depending on your computer, I suppose);
2.) Tweaking this setting shouldn't really affect gameplay; it should just ease the choppiness during the FMV cutscenes (which is mostly only noticeable in the audio, at least for me). So, no, you won't have to change the setting whenever a video starts to play, then change it back afterwards -- just set it once at the beginning of the game ([EDIT:] obviously it doesn't HAVE TO be at the beginning, but it's preferable to having to scramble to do it when a cutscene that might actually be important starts to play), every time you start it up (or edit the config file once, and forget about it ;) ). Or don't -- it's not as though there are tons of cutscenes in that game anyway.
Post edited December 27, 2015 by HunchBluntley
Pages:
1
2
3
4
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDOSBox rendering defaults must be overhauled(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)