Posted January 02, 2021
dtgreene
vaccines work she/her
dtgreene Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2010
From United States
Orkhepaj
SuperStraight Win10 Groomer Smasher
Orkhepaj Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Hungary
paladin181
Cheese
paladin181 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted January 02, 2021
Evil and good are social constructs. Even some of the universally evil acts (such as killing others) are forgivable in the proper circumstance. Law and chaos are no less social in their nature. So to say evil exists, it is only because we, as a global society, have deemed that certain acts are evil. At one time, slavery was viewed positively in a large part of the world. It was not in any way evil to the majority of society. People can find justification for almost anything. Some things done today could be seen as evil, mega corporations exploiting people psychologically and instituting planned obsolescence to keep consumers returning. Copyrights being extended till nearly infinity because someone has to money to buy the law.
Orkhepaj
SuperStraight Win10 Groomer Smasher
Orkhepaj Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Hungary
Posted January 02, 2021
we gave a word a meaning and that meaning exists , i cant see how this is social construct anymore than anything else
Dogmaus
I'm over GOG
Dogmaus Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2013
From Taiwan
Posted January 02, 2021
I could say that I do it just the same as people who thinks I am evil and fight against me.
Post edited January 02, 2021 by Dogmaus
OptimalBreez
New User
OptimalBreez Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2020
From Poland
Posted January 02, 2021
paladin181: Evil and good are social constructs. Even some of the universally evil acts (such as killing others) are forgivable in the proper circumstance. Law and chaos are no less social in their nature. So to say evil exists, it is only because we, as a global society, have deemed that certain acts are evil. At one time, slavery was viewed positively in a large part of the world. It was not in any way evil to the majority of society. People can find justification for almost anything. Some things done today could be seen as evil, mega corporations exploiting people psychologically and instituting planned obsolescence to keep consumers returning. Copyrights being extended till nearly infinity because someone has to money to buy the law.
Since we're doing ad hoc hypotheses, let's assume a great thinker comes around preaching that people with aquiline noses are a breed of the devil and should be killed on the spot and for some reason 99.999% of global society accepts it because the great thinker had some great moments in the past. Are you seriously trying to tell me that it would be morally wrong, or in other words "evil" for me to try to save people with aquiline noses because... majority decided for it to be so?paladin181
Cheese
paladin181 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted January 02, 2021
OptimalBreez: Since we're doing ad hoc hypotheses, let's assume a great thinker comes around preaching that people with aquiline noses are a breed of the devil and should be killed on the spot and for some reason 99.999% of global society accepts it because the great thinker had some great moments in the past. Are you seriously trying to tell me that it would be morally wrong, or in other words "evil" for me to try to save people with aquiline noses because... majority decided for it to be so?
It could eventually become that way. These kind of things don't happen quickly. But absolutely it could eventually become so. Especially if good reasoning were given for it. Think of how many things we believe to be true without knowing the truth behind it first, from birth. Eventually, we usually learn the reasons. But let's say that thinker convinced society that Aquiline-nosed people were spreaders of a deadly disease, and that letting them live would be a detriment to society. He could prove it. Then one day, they no longer spread the disease. But society would still not trust them because they had forgotten WHY they were bad, but just knew that they WERE bad. I only use that example because of our already socially crafted social moral structure. You need good reasons to convince people to do things, but had they been taught these things from the outset, there would be no justification necessary.
OptimalBreez
New User
OptimalBreez Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2020
From Poland
Posted January 02, 2021
paladin181: It could eventually become that way. These kind of things don't happen quickly. But absolutely it could eventually become so. Especially if good reasoning were given for it. Think of how many things we believe to be true without knowing the truth behind it first, from birth. Eventually, we usually learn the reasons.
But let's say that thinker convinced society that Aquiline-nosed people were spreaders of a deadly disease, and that letting them live would be a detriment to society. He could prove it. Then one day, they no longer spread the disease. But society would still not trust them because they had forgotten WHY they were bad, but just knew that they WERE bad. I only use that example because of our already socially crafted social moral structure. You need good reasons to convince people to do things, but had they been taught these things from the outset, there would be no justification necessary.
OK I see where you are coming from and I don't want to push it much further since we would undoubtedly hit the muddy, metaphysical waters. But let's say that thinker convinced society that Aquiline-nosed people were spreaders of a deadly disease, and that letting them live would be a detriment to society. He could prove it. Then one day, they no longer spread the disease. But society would still not trust them because they had forgotten WHY they were bad, but just knew that they WERE bad. I only use that example because of our already socially crafted social moral structure. You need good reasons to convince people to do things, but had they been taught these things from the outset, there would be no justification necessary.
But, knowing what we as a global society know now, don't you think that we are indeed in the right by condemning slavery now, and were, as a society, in the wrong when slavery was considered to be morally acceptable practice?
Don't you think that we, as a society, are indeed >inherently< in the moral high ground now, and would be even if for some reason open slavery returned in, say, a hundred years and everyone accepted it?
Post edited January 02, 2021 by OptimalBreez
BlueMooner
Blue User
BlueMooner Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2012
From United States
Posted January 03, 2021
OptimalBreez: Don't you think that we, as a society, are indeed >inherently< in the moral high ground now, and would be even if for some reason open slavery returned in, say, a hundred years and everyone accepted it?
No. What you're arguing for is the existence of objective morality, and incidentally suggesting that your morality aligns with it. This is the problem people often have on moral issues, claiming that their position is not merely the right one, but objectively the right one. It's a flawed argument when morality is inherently subjective.
People can argue whether certain actions align with a particular "ultimate goal", but the goal itself is always subjective. Maybe one thinks morality should have humans all working together, or that morality is based on harm, or we should look at what maximizes population growth, or personal happiness, or financial stability. We can talk about how well X leads to Y, but not whether X or Y are "Good" or "Evil".
The same thing happens in political discussions, as people support this policy while opposing that one, and can't seem to grasp how anyone could disagree with them. It's because we all have different visions of an ideal country, and thus a policy that leads us closer to one goal will actually lead us away from another.
Imagine two people get in a car to go somewhere. One says they should go left at the light, and the other insists they obviously must go right. They argue and yell, incredulous that the other can't see how WRONG they obviously are. What they don't realize is that one is heading to the supermarket, which means going left, and the other wants to go to the post office, which necessitates going right.
Different visions follow different paths and because we all have different definitions of what is moral, we can have people unable to even agree on whether a specific thing is good or evil, like abortion. It may be that a moral code that prioritizes freedom may label abortion good, while a moral code that prioritizes life may label it evil. Abortion is neither good nor evil, but it will have a different moral label under different priorities, like everything else. And those moral codes, those priorities, are all subjective.
Discussions of morality, of social issues, of civil "rights", are all ultimately about trying to convince others to sign on to our particular moral definitions. Any position being popular or unpopular in no way makes it right or wrong, and certainly doesn't make it objectively true. It's simply about what argument is more persuasive, which resonates more with more people.
Muddying the waters of all this are people strongly influenced (manipulated) towards a certain position on something by "authorities", like holy men or politicians, even though those positions may actually contradict their own personal code. So it can be hard at times to discuss an issue with someone when they may unknowingly be advocating a position that was "fed" them, and are maintaining with cognitive dissonance.
Post edited January 03, 2021 by BlueMooner
P. Zimerickus
Coffee!
P. Zimerickus Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2013
From Netherlands
Posted January 03, 2021
yea like that time i discovered this artist being searched by a police for the rape of a minor girl and from a moral standpoint i could not enjoy his music anymore, which btw worked great with my tai chi work-out ...... in the end i belief this was the first step into defining how much of said faith i've put in others....
or like those hero movies where a dad goes ' all the way ' to rescue his family
or like those hero movies where a dad goes ' all the way ' to rescue his family
RafaelRamus
Go to Hell, you Satanist Curators
RafaelRamus Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2016
From Brazil
Posted January 03, 2021
Yes, I do.
novumZ
Akash of Vishnu
novumZ Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From Other
Posted January 03, 2021
to me evil is hate, I don't fight it but hope people see other peoples kindness and try it for themselves.
GreasyDogMeat
FCK GOG
GreasyDogMeat Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
myconv
the insightful
myconv Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2018
From Hong Kong
Posted January 03, 2021
novumZ: to me evil is hate, I don't fight it but hope people see other peoples kindness and try it for themselves.
GreasyDogMeat: Evil is often hidden underneath kindness. Is it evil to hate those who have committed heinous acts?
going to have to completely disagree with that 'definition'.
Let's say you are the parents of a child that was raped, tortured, and murdered in a most heinous ways, The vile culprit is caught, sentenced to death. But through appeals and other obstacles 30 years of hard time goes by before the death sentence can be implemented. The perpetrator in that 30 years becomes a very different person, a "good" person as far as anyone knows. But regardless the execution will happen, and the perpetrator welcomes it, deeply repentant of their evil.
In version 1, the parents hate the perpetrator till the very end and beyond.
In V2, the parents forgive the perpetrator and even visit them in prison, starting to think of them as their own child even. Or just forgives them anyway, either way you like. This has bases in reality too, this kind of thing has roughly happened.
I say according to my definition of morality, V2 is much more moral. One could even argue V1 is a little immoral. Why? The issue is not about the perpetrator. The issue is not judgement upon the perpetrator, I'd say the same even if the perpetrator was unrepentant till the end.
The morality in question here is the parents. If they were consumed by hate for the rest of their lives, it would damage their complexity, their sentience, it would poison them deep inside. It's in forgiveness that they attain morality. Now don't confuse forgiveness with no punishment. If we could really know for absolute sure that the perpetrator WAS the perpetrator, then death penalty makes sense. If they seemed to have reformed, I'd worry the reform was fake. I'd still be for killing the perpetrator,(well with apparent reformation, it would depend on how well we could ascertain its genuineness) and for the parents forgiving the perpetrator.
The "justice" would be in making sure a evil being is stopped forever from committing more vile acts and a warning to others who would do such vile things.
The morality would be in not letting hate dictate your mind.
That's why in stories where there's a villain that needs to be stopped and the only way is to kill them. I say kill them, just don't let the people who they wronged do the killing if it can be helped.
Post edited January 03, 2021 by myconv
scientiae
intexto perplexo
scientiae Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Australia