Something that came up in another topic (the one where I explain why WRPGs are buggier than JRPGs (it's because they're more complex and have to keep track of more state)), someone mentioned something about this being the case in general, and I've realized I haven't thought about this.

So, for games that are not RPGs, how do Western and Japanese games differ in terms of things like style and complexity, or other just general differences between them? (Try to compare games of the same genre, and for this topic I'm interested in games that aren't RPGs.)

Edit: Why the low rating, particularly for a post that sparked some interesting discussion?

You want a comparision list or is textform? I give you a textform version because I like typing.

Western game developers are usually more driven by intuitiveness. They usually have a menu saying what x does and when you click it it opens up. Japanese development paradigms dictate that the game must "ask the player", so if you open up a menu there is a high chance that this menu will include more menus asking you to open up x, end y, amongst other things. Japanese people love their menus, even outside RPG games (in fact, this love is why some RPGs indulge in that sort of stuff).

Another thing is that western intuitiveness is already implied in its gameplay. May it be an car racing simulation or a soccer game, there are so many things behind the scenes of the game making the simulation run that its kinda impressive. Meanwhile, Japanese simulators (like the Gran Turismo series) are very predictable in their simulations and rely mostly on a slower progress rather than developers wanting the player to be "in" the game. This entire paradigm changed with eastern players playing The Elder Scrolls, especialy Skyrim which is HUGE (as in gigantic) in Japan. Its about as large as some minor Nintendo games in terms of its hardcore player base.

A lot of japanese developers rely on "formulas", which means that a specific genre always has to play similarly. For instance STGs or shooting games as they're called (like R-Type) rely on the game gameplay principles at all times. Even small changes are noticeable quickly and sometimes rejected by the playerbase, unless its something as integral or genius like Ikaruga. The same applies to any side scroller game as well. Which is why a lot of games from the X68000 are very samey, while the A500 had a lot of high quality games that played differently, with the caveat that a lot of these games weren't that great in terms of gameplay, because in the western world, everyone relies on intuitiveness rather than "the same formulas". The downside of japanese development is that there almost isn't any game that stands out and if it does, it takes a long time until the game "takes off due to success" so to speak. There are exceptions of course.

Nowadays, thanks to games like TES/Skyrim, people in japan love games that change expectations, with the result that many games become overlooked. Most indie developers (the indie game scene is huge in japan, albeit its in a bubble of about 700k - 1.2 million people) play it safe by making games that have x gameplay from y genre, but have cute anime girls in them.

I go so far and say that from about 69 - 76 million people in japan that play games regulary, there is about a 5% of people that have never touched a japanese game, because they became accustumed to intuitive open world games before playing the more famous asian games/chinese handheld gacha games (and move on to other handhelds). I wouldn't say that western games are better, but I say that if you want to see games that really try something new, looking at the western market bears more fruits.

So overall, japanese game developers try to play it more "safe" in their design, while western devs try to make games intuitively while playing around with specific ideas, with a very intricate background simulation. Which is why Dark Souls often plays in a predictable pattern (RNG often only determines movesets and such) while in a western action game like Halo there can be more stuff happening that you don't expect unless you rush though. Due to this, you will often see japanese developers taking stuff from older and newer intuitive western games to implement a sort of "safe" standard in their design, stuff you can already see in games such as BOTW.

There are also visual novels and their subtypes (dating sims, eroge) but its the same with them as any other game genre when it comes to japanese and general western differences. A western visual novel is usually trying to do something unique, while a developer making a japanese visual novel game would try to use the already established writing formulas to create a story while trying to give the game appealing "softline" art that players consider cute (the feedback they get from testing usually involves how people judge the cell shade art in a cute way).

If you need more insights and questions or want to know anything specific, just ask.

That is not an easy task since Japanese have a tendency to think outside the box by creating their own genre. I'm thinking about Katamari Damacy and Muscle March. Is there any equivalent craziness out there?

Those are just very specific developers in their own circles. The western world has a lot of famous indies as well. Unfortunately they don't produce something in the same vein as the Katamari series or Patapon.

But its true, since most japanese games play it safe, there are a few devs that succeed in trying to find their own unique niches.

I mean western people gamble a lot more, think of GTA 1, Boulder Dash, Lazy Jones, etc. Nowadays its all refinements after refinements. Remasters, remakes, etc. But this sort of "playing it safe" is mostly because the budget of making a game goes into the millions rather than innovating something new. Genshin Impact for instance costs about as much as two Assassins Creed games as of now and thats a chinese gacha game that uses a very, very safe open world formula.

I'm not sure I'd throw a lot of explanation solely on Skyrim, but I gather the HD era made a lot of JP devs and consumers have to reconsider their frame of reference for what a video game could be.

I remember for the longest time Japanese games with shooting basically disallowed any kind of mobility with precision aiming. You either stopped to aim or you had lock on aiming.

Japanese devs put way more attention into the mechanical gameplay feel. Literally how the game responds to the button pushes and how the player perceives that.

That gap has become smaller over the years, the difference was way more obvious in the 90s.

Also, there are differences in design philosophy between American and European devs, and even between British and continental European devs.

The world outside Japan isn't a uniform block like some people make it sound when they use the word Western to describe anything in gaming that isn't Japanese.

When we talk about Eurojank, that doesn't fit British devs quite the same way it does to French or Eastern European devs, for example.

But specifically Japanese games stand out for how their gameplay mechanics seem so deliberately designed.

I wrote TES, but Skyrim made people go crazy online. It was gigantic over there, mostly because of how better modding was compared to Oblivion (Oblivion was gigantic there as well, Morrowind not so much).

Skyrim made a lot more people realize just how much you can take things, the modding scene there is great. A lot of open world esque games are now very akin to Skyrims "Swallow Waters" but with a lot of ways to provide a simple yet satisfying way for completionist to have fun with it.

But overall, japanese gamers think that most of the inspiration that also reshaped their games were western indies. Back then (early 90s) the only huge games that weren't japanese were Populous 2 and of course Star Control 2 (which got dubbed in japanese).

Main difference is boss fights.

Western Boss: Health bar reaches zero = boss is dead.

Japanese Boss: Health bar reaches zero = everyone stops for a chat, boss smack talks at you, protagonist is an idiot and forgives boss even though boss has been trying to kill him all game, boss gets stronger, boss smacks down party and runs away, still smack talking. Repeat 5 more times (on average) until game ends.

I don't remember much chatting in Dark Souls or Sekiro.

I won't say anything about gameplay, but as for the style - Japanese games tend to be more "author" with various features and quirks that were put there by lead designers because lead designers wanted those features. As opposed to Western games that are usually more "committee" and have many intended (by lead designer) features removed or new features added because the marketing department said so.

That's right. I also realized that those games can be classified as arcade games. Unlike the rest of the world, Japanese never gave up on those games (arcade seems to be a big part of their video game culture). The arcade games as we knew them are not as popular nowadays (at least not in the West), but those games are still being released on consoles, mainly by Japanese developers. This is one of the (many) big differences between Japanese and the rest of the world.

I wish more Japanese gogers (or any Japan residents) would chime in and share their opinion.

There are a lot of generalizations going on in this thread, and I don't think I need to point out that the inherent question is a bit strange.
Of course, certain design choices in Japan might be influenced by the culture and the general community there; the same goes for the "WEST". Still, this is such a broad grouping, that I find it a bit hard to even say anything.
When you narrow it down to comparing how certain genres are treated in Japan/the "WEST", then comparisons are a bit more applicable, but a lot of comments here are making much more general statements than that.

Elaborate on what? It was completely unusual to dub western games into japanese in 1994. In comparison, Baldurs Gate seem fairly new and things also changed.

You have to understand that this was the 3DO version, which still sold a lot because of Star Control 2. They dubbed it because of market research and because a lot of creative nerds love space themed games. Not only that but a lot of these folks also own the english version prior to buying the japanese one. Overall, over 100.000 copies of Star Control 2 were sold in japan (the japanese version, that is) for the 3DO.

And yes, the western indie market assimilates and improves upon old formula, that is what I mean (for instance, Stardew Valley is considered an overall improvement compared to games such as Harvest Moon).

That is exactly how one reads the thread. Bringing nuance into this doesn't answer the question at all (after all this thread is about Japan compared to what accounts to the entire Region 1 and 2 market, and even parts beyond).

What is very interesting is that a lot of other asian countries also like to assimilate from the western market. For instance, a lot of South Korean MMOs take from classic western MMOs and games, china loves Skyrim (everyone loves that game, also thanks for the physics implementations!) and Mount and Blade (which has a huge market there). Not only that but chinese gamers really love flavor and play basically everything we do, so anything goes. I wouldn't be suprised if at some point someone designs a very well made Mount and Blade-like game but in a chinese setting. Thailand and Vietnam love to experiment. Indonesia loves horror and gacha (though they mostly consume but they're creative with horror) and the list goes on.

I mean in relation to what you said here: I apologize if there's a language barrier that muddies things a bit as well as involving two separate topics in my original post making things ambiguous. When I think "indie games" I generally think of lower end productions in the zeitgeist of the HD era when budgets were bloating up, that in the early '90s were something you distributed as shareware via BBS. "Reshaped [by] western indies" that includes Populous and Star Control is a confusing statement to say the least, so I figured you were stating separate things.

Short version:

Tropes and Realism.

Japanese beat to death any popular trope. Lacking in realism is an understatement.

Westerners tend to use Realism. This doesn't mean everything must be 100% realistic. It just means, when a rule is well established, that rule cannot be broken or else it is perceived as a negative.

A good example is when Tolkien and his long time friend CS Lewis were arguing. Lewis wanted random things in his work to be accepted due to his outlook of religion. Tolkien insisted everything should have a 3 part history to establish a sense of realism. While both authors became popular. Tolkien had his work far more grounded because of the way he established a history behind almost everything he wrote about.

If you do not understand a 3 part history; it works under a premise of explaining something that has 3 steps or tiers. Most people will not ask beyond this and as a result, the suspension of disbelief seems more believable.
Example:
You get pulled over by a police officer. Police officer asks you why you were speeding. You reply with a lie. The cop asks about that lie. You give a plausible reason to support the lie and the cop asks 1 more thing about what you lied about and again you come up with a plausible 3rd part to that lie. Thus, 3 tiers of history that seem plausible.
The cop gives you a warning and leaves you alone.

In terms of media, writing this way is really difficult, but also makes sense to a degree in terms of following a story. Especially in a film. Your brain cannot and will not ask questions until long after the film is over. Otherwise that was a poorly written film. If on the other hand you were really engrossed, chances are it was well written.