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BreOl72: You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
I wasn't even aware of that. But it's sure nice to know.
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rojimboo: Exactly, they said 'many messages from gamers', which could mean a very active minority of gamers sending loads of messages, or it could mean many gamers sending many messages, or it could mean many gamers sending a few messages each. We don't actually know.
As you have demonstrated yourself, "many gamers" is already the most charitable interpretation. It's definitely not to GOG's detriment that it has become the prevailing one.

In fact the biggest problem starts with the word "gamers."

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rojimboo: the term 'many gamers' spread like wildfire and was quoted everywhere
Most often it was being paraphrased for entertainment value rather than quoted.

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rojimboo: I find it fascinating.
I find it nitpicking.
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BreOl72: You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
Can you state your source for this claim?
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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Turbo-Beaver: Can you state your source for this claim?
Quick google :

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/cyberpunk-2077-conquers-china-highest-pre-sale-figures-in-the-wor/zb1f31
https://nikopartners.com/cyberpunk-2077-off-to-a-strong-start-in-china/
https://wccftech.com/cyberpunk-2077-is-off-to-a-strong-start-in-china-too-according-to-niko-partners/
https://www.essentiallysports.com/cyberpunk-2077-has-turned-out-to-be-a-huge-hit-in-china-even-without-an-official-release-cd-projekt-red-esports-news/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/cyberpunk-2077/sales-china
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If it's so well-substantiated surely you won't have a problem coming with an exact quote that corroborates what you claimed, and a link to it?
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Turbo-Beaver: As you have demonstrated yourself, "many gamers" is already the most charitable interpretation. It's definitely not to GOG's detriment that it has become the prevailing one.

In fact the biggest problem starts with the word "gamers."
You got it the wrong way around. The massive uproar has been about the apparently misleading or false claim that 'many' gamers had contacted GOG about Devotion, and how it was used as a cop out to explain it not being sold here. The fact that it could also mean that not so many gamers according to GOG had written messages, means GOG did less evil, and wasn't so 'bad' and made the apparent lie so obvious. So yes, it might be semantics, but it's still interesting to observe how actual terms and meanings are secondary to making a point and having outrage and raising your pitchforks.

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Turbo-Beaver: Most often it was being paraphrased for entertainment value rather than quoted.
Maybe some had actually read the original tweet. But tt was indeed being quoted by many (lol), clearly thinking that was what was said as shown by their subsequent comments and posts about Chinese bots and trolls and whatnot.

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Turbo-Beaver: I find it nitpicking.
That implies interest and intent. Neither of which I possess in this matter.
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Turbo-Beaver: If it's so well-substantiated surely you won't have a problem coming with an exact quote that corroborates what you claimed, and a link to it?
I put five links, not enough for you ?
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Turbo-Beaver: If it's so well-substantiated surely you won't have a problem coming with an exact quote that corroborates what you claimed, and a link to it?
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Gersen: I put five links, not enough for you ?
Just a single one could be enough if you quote where you think it says what you're claiming exactly.
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Gersen: I put five links, not enough for you ?
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Turbo-Beaver: Just a single one could be enough if you quote where you think it says what you're claiming exactly.
Dude. The first sentence of the first link after the first title.

"The Chinese are very interested in Cyberpunk 2077 - players from the country are responsible for the largest number of pre-orders of this game in the world."

Why make it so disingenious? Why so defensive? Is this a battle to be won? Nay, a war?
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Turbo-Beaver: Just a single one could be enough if you quote where you think it says what you're claiming exactly.
You do realize it's literally written in the first link URL ?
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firstpastthepost: And these you tubers I’ve never heard of speak for all gamers?
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: No, the youtubers don't speak for all gamers.

However, their videos, and their audience members' responses to their videos, proves that a huge preponderance of gamers - meaning literally hundreds of thousands to millions of people - know both that:

a) GOG flagrantly outright lied to them by saying they banned Devotion because "many gamers" told them to

b) GOG bent the knee to the CCP and banned the game solely in order to appease them, which is a fact that GOG is too cowardly to admit, hence their "many gamers" lie

And those, we who are the real many gamers who actually exist (unlike lying GOG's fictitious ones who they just fabricated out of thin air as a scapegoat cover-up for their bending of the knee to the CCP), they are boycotting GOG in droves as a consequence.

They may not raise a huge fuss about it here on the GOG forums (where it seems GOG apologists are now starting to out-number honest gamers who call GOG out on their diabolical crap, hence the mass down-rating of anyone who speaks honestly about this matter), but that silent majority do vote with their wallets, and GOG is financially suffering for that as a consequence, and will continue to do so until if & when they ever decide to "man up" and make things right in regards to this debacle.

By the way, "firstpastthepost," to use your own premise again: do the "many gamers" that GOG alleges caused them to ban the game...do they speak for all gamers? And if not, then why do they get a special privilege to dictate to GOG what games must be banned? Who made them gods or kings over all other gamers? How come normal actual GOG customers don't have that same power to ban games they don't like off of GOG?
I'm a real gamer (busy with my career, but I do game on my spare time) with more games here than I care to mention.

Maybe its a Canadian thing, but I don't really care about this issue either.

The developers of Devotion made an error in judgement, took a cheap shot at China's leader (whether or not you agree with their actions, I find name-calling actual living people to be of bad taste) and antagonised an economic juggernaut which is now making its displeasure known.

Many many other countries have applied economic pressures to get their way, probably less successfully than China it seems. As long as they limit themselves to applying economic pressures and don't send legions of hackers, its all fair game.

GOG is a privately owned company out to make money. It is not a vanguard of free speech or democracy (this is what the public space is for and this is why we need it... never assume that voting with your wallet is a substitute for real voting). As long as they are offering me the service that I want (ie, DRM-free games) and they are not killing puppies as part of their operating procedures (in this regard, I care about the big crunch their parent company imposed on their staff during the making of Cyberpunk way more, I'm a software developer too), its fine with me. They can have my money.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Magnitus
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Magnitus: GOG is a privately owned company out to make money. It is not a vanguard of free speech or democracy.
This is what people are forgetting. GOG has no obligations in this regard.
A certain Ice-T quote comes to mind...
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Turbo-Beaver: Just a single one could be enough if you quote where you think it says what you're claiming exactly.
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rojimboo: The first sentence of the first link after the first title.

"The Chinese are very interested in Cyberpunk 2077 - players from the country are responsible for the largest number of pre-orders of this game in the world."

Why make it so disingenious? Why so defensive? Is this a battle to be won? Nay, a war?
If it's so easy to substantiate this claim, why make it so difficult to check the references?

Well, maybe because if you actually look into any of them, everything boils down to 1 tweet by 1 guy, which, if true, only says that China was the #1 market for pre-orders on PC at one point.

That's a long way from what was originally claimed:

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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
For someone who is so very careful to make a distinction between "many gamers" and "many messages from gamers," conflating the two above must obviously be much more disingenuous, right?

Also, you seem to be criticizing me for simply asking that the claim be substantiated, while a moment ago you were saying yourself (to another poster):

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rojimboo: Can you quote the original Twitter post where they specifically said that in those words?
Weren't you able to locate the original tweet yourself? But then it appears you had known what was in it all along.

"Why make it so disingenuous?"
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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Turbo-Beaver: But then it appears you had known what was in it all along.
I thought you didn't know what was the story in his links, which is why you kept asking him obstinently. But yeah, you showed him what for! *pats you on the back for a job well done* Now he will think twice about his preposterous claims mwahahahah.

Anyways, I find the behaviour of these boycotters fascinating, yet again.

They seem so incredibly defensive about this whole matter - crusading against GOG wherever they can, defending everything to do with boycotting it and making them appear as the absolute worst they can. It's like they own stock in a competitor's company or something, or have had the allegedly guilty party take possession of their homes and gotten them fired after kidnapping their girlfriend. And killed their dog. Also cat.

There's so much (faux) passion with these crusader keyboard warriors, though it can easily be mistaken as 'hatred' and 'jumping on the hate bandwagon'. One only wonders what great feats they could accomplish anonymous from behind their chinese made keyboards and monitors if they focused a tiny bit of that energy and devotion and boycotting power into actually relevant and important topics. I mean, we're all just gamers on a vidya gaming forum and politics isn't allowed anyways, but to waste hours of your life daily to protest against an eastern european digital vidya game distributor for turning down a game due to a backlash in one of their major markets in Asia/the world? Really?

This is the noble cause and hill you want to die upon, people? Hey man, each his own. Just don't expect miracles to happen, even though it's Christmas time.

I do find it fascinating, though.

*keeps observing*
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rojimboo: Exactly, they said 'many messages from gamers', which could mean a very active minority of gamers sending loads of messages, or it could mean many gamers sending many messages, or it could mean many gamers sending a few messages each. We don't actually know.
I would find it even more worrisome if those many messages were to come from few "gamers". Because then the power needed to override the decision that other countries's customers want is concentrated in the hands of just a few CCP shills and they can bend Gog at will without even a higher number of projected purchases to back them up.

Or do you think the half a dozen chineses sending a thousand messages each are intent on buying a thousand copies of CP77?

The interpretation as "many gamers" (sending one message each) is much better for Gog than the alternative.
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joppo: The interpretation as "many gamers" (sending one message each) is much better for Gog than the alternative.
What about what's behind door number 3?

Many gamers sending many messages? That doesn't seem to portray GOG as such a villain as it downright should be! *spits on the floor in disgust at hearing the three letter abbreviation*

Anyways, you forget that this is a statement from GOG (a tweet no less) that will be scrutinised immensely and portrayed any which way to confirm one's bias and arguments. Why would GOG say 'many gamers' if they meant 'many messages'? What's in it for them? Think about it. Look how bad it is when most of the outrage crowd thinks they said 'many gamers'. Now imagine if they had admitted to there being a few gamers with many messages. Imagine the riots!

GOG's PR department is clearly woefully lacking, they need to hire someone competent. *picks random lurker on forum*