Cleric as hybrid class is an interesting idea that I have toyed with in my head, but there are two changes I would make.
1. Clerics get slower casting progression, maybe like a bard. (To compensate, maybe some bonus feats or equivalent?)
2. Clerics and Wizards would draw from the same spell list and use the same mechanics for spell learning and casting. (Yes, this does make Wizards healers, and in fact makes them better than Clerics at that role; that is intentional, though I would also make low-to-mid level healing magic more powerful so that (Mass) Heal aren't the only worthwhile healing spells at high levels.)

Does it still have levels and experience points? To me, an anit-D&D would use a different growth system entirely; the level and experience system that's become standard in the genre has gotten stale over the years, and is honestly not the best system.

Character growth is fun, and the D&D system makes it way too infrequent for my tastes. I much prefer something like the SaGa 3 DS remake (which I am replaying right now), where stat growth is something that happens even during battle. (It also seems pretty well balanced; it's not unusual for a character to max out their main damage stat during the final battle.)

I meant that in original D&D Clerics were in between Fighters/Fighting Men and Wizards/Magic Users - original three classes.

In 3/3.5/3.P D&D using Clerics as healers is a waste of their abilities.

That's why I feel healing needs to be stronger, so that it's not such a waste.

(Also, it's a reason to not make Clerics the only healers; in fact, I have some setting ideas in which Clerics would *not* be the healers, but Wizards would be; Clerics instead get spells of destruction and mind-affecting spells.)

Also, I seem to remember the Elf class being more of a hybrid.

Starting the good old D&D tradition of being racist and loving splatbooks, yes, Elves were more of hybrid but as I recall Wikipedia article, weren't available at the beginning.

Also, Clerics weren't necessarily healers since 2nd E AD&D if I recall correctly.

I am fine with healing in 3.5 and 3.P (Pathfinder), rocket tag gameplay feels weirdly "realistic", and leaves healing to before or after combat.

I don't play JRPGs and consider them an entirely separate genre, so can't really comment on them.

For purposes of this discussion, they are close enough to WRPGs for them to be relevant to this discussion.

I could mention Final Fantay 8 as another game whose magic system is rather unusual, but I don't have the time to describe it at the moment. (That particular game has balance issues (magic is too weak to be worth casting, for example), and is rather controversial among the FF fanbase, particularly those who were expecting another FF7.)



Simple solution: Rename the class and remove the racial restriction. There, (this instance of) racism gone, without any balance issues being introduced.

(Also, AD&D 1e had a rather sexist rule regarding the strength of female characters that is similarly easy to just ignore (or hack around if playing a CRPG), and which fortunately wasn't carried through to later editions.)

When I was young I was easily impressed by lightshow from RPG games like Final Fantasy 7 but now I felt it's just too much. Dark Souls show me that magic can be good and intimate at the same time. First we need more game where we take more specific path in our magic and building from there. Just like how Dark Souls focused solely in fire and light magic and you can only pick one path per character it made people focused and utilize the magic to its fullest potential.

You started small, with just simple fireball or ice spike, then you slowly mastering your magic painstakingly but it become better and better as you hone that skill (fireball became bigger and do splash damage). Make the leveling even your basic magic skill as rewarding as possible. Contrary to many games where people tend to abandon older spells after new shinier and stronger spells exist.

Also make your enemies more cunning. In many games magic users tend to act worse than gunslinging cowboys. At least with cowboys they still aim and count their bullets. But magic users tend to just blasting magics like there's no tomorrow. Why not make enemies wear stuff like fire proof clothing so fire users had to use other mean to take off the fire protection first or ice user had to use different tactic if their enemy wear thick clothing in cold areas.

My idea for a magic based game is a combination of Hitman game and Dark Souls. With the magic user (the player) must deal with tasks with different approach and not always relying on magic. Like when tasked with killing a strong overlord with strong magic armor and surrounded by magic protected bodyguards. So you had to sneak around, find an alternative entrance and wait until the overlord is in his room without his armor when you can finally blast him with fire magic.

Well, biologically women on average posses only 60 % of male strength. And while that might be in favor of "realism", realistically humans/elves/dwarves would get brutally murdered if they try to engage an ogre in melee, to say nothing of dragons, demon lords and Cthulhu. Besides, D&D PC-s are exceptional heroes, not your average person.

My comment wasn't regarding the game balance, only the fact that D&D's got certain racist (or more precisely, speciesist) undertones even in basic conception. Elves being completely composed of Gishes is one of examples of racial stereotyping, and that's just the beginning. From what little I know, 5E may be even worst in that regard.

But, sometimes you love certain artistic work despite it (*cough* Lovecraft *cough*), and D&D does have few exceptional things when it comes to analysis of ethical problems.

I like the mana system of Bard's Tale I-II, you have magic points (mana), but it doesn't regenerate (well it does, but it's so slow it may as well not), and in order to get more mana you need to go to the Energy Emporium and pay gold for more points. In this way mana is like ammunition, so every time you leave town and enter a dungeon or hostile area, you have a limited supply of mana and thus amount of spells you can cast before you have to head back to "reload". This creates a tactical situation where you have to be careful how to use your magic spells, you could blow your mana on early fights to easily win fights, but the danger is that you'll run out of man midway through the dungeon.

I'm terribly naieve on this sugject, but it fascinates me. I can only offer this:

I've never enjoyed playing as a spell caster in any game, until.... Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen. That game not only opened my eyes to RPGs, but creating my interest in magic systems. Two Worlds 2 built upon that even more.

I'll sit down now and let people with useful views resume. Maybe one day I'll actually unstand what's being said. ;)

@paladin181 ("A warrior cannot blast through hordes of enemies quickly; he will need time to do it.")

One of the biggest deficiencies in D&D. This area is where the JRPG/anime school of thought shines.

It's entirely common for warriors in JRPGs to rival mages. Have some examples of things that are common everyday occurrences for JRPG warriors that are largely unheard of by their Western counterparts:
* Swiping a greatsword across the ground, causing an earthquake and shockwave that knocks enemies off their feet and wrecks all buildings in a 100-meter forward cone.
* Firing lasers or energy beams out of a medieval weapon, even one that doesn't have a built-in energy weapon.
* Jumping up 100 feet and causing a mini-nuke blast on crash-landing. This can be done while unarmed as a martial artist.
* Swinging a sword generating "air blades" that can hit enemies at range.
* Causing a tornado with a regular melee weapon.
* Jumping up and floating while meteors rain down from a greatsword.
* Bringing a sword to a gunfight and reliably winning.

Most warriors agree: Life is better with limit breaks.

Yes, he can wipe out trash mobs with ease, then shatter his sword on the next guy's face to show how powerful THAT guy is. Just one of the many flaws of anime/jrpgs.

I really want a JRPG or WRPG where environment impact actually matter. So if one of the fighter use skill that can cause earthquake or tornado the area around it got wrecked afterward and you got chewed by people who live there.

I for one am very put off by specialization, want to be able to end up with a character that's as close to full mastery as possible. One major reason why I'm a fan of training through use (plus trainers that are just paid, at most), no levels, skill points or other such limits, take enough time to train and you'll master whatever.
This, of course, does require that incremental improvement, not feats, perks, entirely different skills as you get better.

Oy, hated that one, called it one of the worst gameplay concepts I ever saw. Have to draw magic from enemies and then binding it to stats improves the stats, so using the magic reduces the bound stats. No thank you.
Sephiroth would have quite an issue with the entire solar system in that case :))