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General discussionUpdate: 60% / 85% off Enhanced Editions: Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale
Original & Enhanced to become the Definitive Edition Bundle (822 posts)(822 posts)
(822 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 28, 2016
UPDATE: Heads up! There are 24h left, so now is the time to take advantage of the amazing deals and upgrade your collections. Eyes on the price, Boo, eyes on the price!



Years ago, the Baldur's Gate series changed the way we look at gaming and the scope of what was considered possible. Even now, the legacy continues through the Enhanced Editions – thanks to the hard work and years of updates to keep the inimitable Infinity Engine living on.



It's the work on the Enhanced Editions that made <span class="bold">Siege of Dragonspear</span> possible – the just-released, massive expansion to the timeless classic, available only for Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.

"The team at Beamdog was able to breathe a new life into the Infinity Engine classics." says Greg Tito, Communications Director for Dungeons & Dragons "We're proud to recognize their excellent work in offering the best possible experience and support for these legendary titles. We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."

On April 29, Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition will be expanded to include the classic versions – each becoming the Definitive Edition Bundle and not available for purchase separately. If you already own the classics on GOG.com, the games currently on your shelf won't be affected.

"We're excited to take our commitment and support to Baldur's Gate and GOG fans to the next level and humbled to work with such great partners. The Definitive Edition Bundle will give every Baldur's Gate fan what they're looking for" – concludes Cameron Tofer, Beamdog COO.



In the near future, we're also looking forward to full GOG Galaxy support for achievements in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition – as well as in the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear expansion.

Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition will be 75% off until April 4 11:59 PM PDT / April 5 2:59 AM EDT/ 7:59 BST and 60% off until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST. The 60% discount for Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST. The 85% discount for owners of the original saga will last until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST.
Post edited April 02, 2016 by maladr0Id
Posted April 29, 2016
Does this mean there will only be one product page for the 'bundle' rather than one for the original version of the game and one for the EE? If so, would that mean a customer cannot post a review for one and not the other? Say, if they wanted to leave a positive review for one version but a less glowing one for the other?
Post edited April 29, 2016 by Banjo_oz
Posted April 29, 2016
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Reaper9988: Wait are alleged death & rape threats now a requirement for organized Campaigns ?

Both of the game creators were attacked and eventually bullied into apologizing or explaining their decisions.

Ok then does Hatred count ? Got removed from stram for a day till the backlash got to big and they reinstated it.
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Gilozard: Organized internet harassment campaigns almost always include at least one of: death threats (sometimes including family or pets), rape threats (sometimes including family), or other stalking behavior like calling workplaces/homes, etc. So yeah, it's a really good litmus test.

Recognizing that some fans are upset and apologizing for upsetting them is not the same thing as being bullied. Also, as people making entertainment their actions are public and sometimes the public reacts - so long as that doesn't cross over into their non-professional life and doesn't turn into a constant stream of personal attacks it's not harassment.

Did the people who disliked Hatred go after the devs, or after the game? That's the key factor for me. Boycotting or trying to ban a product you think is reprehensible is understandable, but trying to punish or upset people for doing something you disagree with is wrong.

People can make/say what they want so long as they follow the decency laws. Sometimes others find it offensive. The important thing is to understand the difference between 'this person did/said something that's offensive and I am objecting to that thing' and 'this person is bad and should be hurt or silenced because they offended me'. It happens some on both sides, but the vast majority of actual harassment I've seen is clearly caused by GGers - the whole thing started because a loser had a bad breakup and decided to target his ex, and GG has embraced those tactics instead of trying to move past them and mature into a decent movement.
Well I can't say how much heat the devs of hatred got but seeing what game they made I have a Feeling they wouldn't care.
I find encroaching on Steam and other platforms to not sell it is even worse in my opinion though.

And I'm not agreeing with this Dragonspear review bombing or calling for someone to be fired either no matter how much I dislike beamdogs attitude.
But by that logic saying that it would have been ok if people would have stated I'm offended by the Transperson so I will not buy the game and tell my friends not to buy it either would have been ok ?
I have a feeling that wouldn't have went over well.
(And I'm just using the Transwomen inclusion because that is what the Media seems to have mostly focused on)
Posted April 29, 2016
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nepundo: 1) Sorry, I want to play the classics.
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hummer010: Wait. You want to play the classics, but you don't want to pay full price. That's cool. You haven't seen them on sale at any point in the last 18 years though?
No, not really. To make a long story short, I was a PC gamer until about 1996, then after 2012 or so. And I just decided to open a GOG account last December... I know, big mistake, specially since I wanted to get "up to date" with all the great games I had missed during all that time, and I was aware of the existence of GOG before :-(

In a way this serves me well, but really, I wouldn't have imagined this happening in the store formerly known as Good Old Games.

And I still don't know why the classics haven't been discounted this month. It makes all the sense to me. I even got an e-mail saying items in my wishlist (BG I & II, and Icewind Dale) were on sale on the 18th. Went to check and they weren't, so I assumed some blue had pressed the wrong button a couple of days in advance or something and a discount was coming soon. I didn't post/ask anything in the forums because I assume I'm part of a very small group here who still doesn't own the classics :-D
Posted April 29, 2016
low rated
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Gilozard: Organized internet harassment campaigns almost always include at least one of: death threats (sometimes including family or pets), rape threats (sometimes including family), or other stalking behavior like calling workplaces/homes, etc. So yeah, it's a really good litmus test.

Recognizing that some fans are upset and apologizing for upsetting them is not the same thing as being bullied. Also, as people making entertainment their actions are public and sometimes the public reacts - so long as that doesn't cross over into their non-professional life and doesn't turn into a constant stream of personal attacks it's not harassment.

Did the people who disliked Hatred go after the devs, or after the game? That's the key factor for me. Boycotting or trying to ban a product you think is reprehensible is understandable, but trying to punish or upset people for doing something you disagree with is wrong.

People can make/say what they want so long as they follow the decency laws. Sometimes others find it offensive. The important thing is to understand the difference between 'this person did/said something that's offensive and I am objecting to that thing' and 'this person is bad and should be hurt or silenced because they offended me'. It happens some on both sides, but the vast majority of actual harassment I've seen is clearly caused by GGers - the whole thing started because a loser had a bad breakup and decided to target his ex, and GG has embraced those tactics instead of trying to move past them and mature into a decent movement.
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Reaper9988: Well I can't say how much heat the devs of hatred got but seeing what game they made I have a Feeling they wouldn't care.
I find encroaching on Steam and other platforms to not sell it is even worse in my opinion though.

And I'm not agreeing with this Dragonspear review bombing or calling for someone to be fired either no matter how much I dislike beamdogs attitude.
But by that logic saying that it would have been ok if people would have stated I'm offended by the Transperson so I will not buy the game and tell my friends not to buy it either would have been ok ?
I have a feeling that wouldn't have went over well.
(And I'm just using the Transwomen inclusion because that is what the Media seems to have mostly focused on)
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily agree but that's just stating an opinion/giving a review. Some people might get offended, but some people are gonna get offended at anything, no one should force you to buy the game. That's not trying to hurt people or cause damage, it's just not supporting something you disagree with.

I've tried to post this and it disappeared, so hopefully I don't wind up double-posting.
Posted April 29, 2016
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ValamirCleaver: How about quoting a specific line?...
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Shadowstalker16: “If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott.

“In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
Played the originals a fair bit back in the day, but only tried out the first EE a little. Was thinking of giving it a go (the DLC sounds rather awful and is very expensive, so I'll pass on that until a sale or curiosity gets the better of me!)... however, is the above saying that the EE actually *CHANGES* the original game because of things the new devs didn't like?! That *really* puts me off wanting to play that version if so. Censoring a game is bad enough, but changing some little element just because you personally just didn't like something?! That's what mods are for! :)

Or does it just mean that when making their new DLC, they added new dialog that "changed" the context of those things they didn't like? In other words, if I play the EE without the SoD DLC, I won't find any difference between the original version of Jaheira and the EE version (for example)?

The idea the DLC might include some transgendered character or hints at "topical issues" doesn't bother me, even it it *is* intended to push a dev/writer's agenda (most anything written does that, some are just better or more subtle about it!). The idea that the EE versions will actually change or censor the characters I know and love *does* offend me though, and means I'll stick to playing the originals instead now I'm tempted to replay these.

Can someone who's played the EE let me know?
Post edited April 29, 2016 by Banjo_oz
Posted April 29, 2016
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Reaper9988: Well I can't say how much heat the devs of hatred got but seeing what game they made I have a Feeling they wouldn't care.
I find encroaching on Steam and other platforms to not sell it is even worse in my opinion though.

And I'm not agreeing with this Dragonspear review bombing or calling for someone to be fired either no matter how much I dislike beamdogs attitude.
But by that logic saying that it would have been ok if people would have stated I'm offended by the Transperson so I will not buy the game and tell my friends not to buy it either would have been ok ?
I have a feeling that wouldn't have went over well.
(And I'm just using the Transwomen inclusion because that is what the Media seems to have mostly focused on)
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Gilozard: Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily agree but that's just stating an opinion/giving a review. Some people might get offended, but some people are gonna get offended at anything, no one should force you to buy the game. That's not trying to hurt people or cause damage, it's just not supporting something you disagree with.

I've tried to post this and it disappeared, so hopefully I don't wind up double-posting.
Ok I mean I still don't agree that the matter of speech is that important to an argument(although I used to years back) but that attitude is commendable, I don't think many of the people I would call SJWs would share it though.
I have a feeling there would have been a huge outrage if a reviewer on a semi well known site would have mentioned it during a review.

The difference here also is is that there is a good chance alot of the Mainstream gaming media would have rallied behind the outrage and possible calls for unemployment.

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Banjo_oz: Um, does this mean the product pages will be "merged"? If so, does that mean one cannot review the original edition and EE separately? Say, if one wants to give a positive review to one but a lesser review to the other?
Does this mean there will only be one product page for the 'bundle' rather than one for the original version of the game and one for the EE? If so, would that mean a customer cannot post a review for one and not the other? Say, if they wanted to leave a positive review for one version but a less glowing one for the other?
Hmm interesting question.
Post edited April 29, 2016 by Reaper9988
Posted April 29, 2016
Only the first Icewind Dale will be deleted today (in addition to both Baldur's Gate games), right?
Posted April 29, 2016
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AccurateArt: I'd be alright with people expressing all forms of speech (I encourage this in my classroom). The only thing I ask is that people who express opinions on an issue be ready to back them up when challenged. Where I become confused here is that you are essentially arguing that we ought to ban this person from expressing himself, yet you are arguing for freedom ("your freedom ends when it infringes on mine"). I think you can see why someone like myself might be a bit confused about this given that what you are arguing does not promote freedom in any sense.

Onto the current topic of discussion:
This certainly does sound like an odd way to go about it - removing options from the consumer. Why not just keep the current arrangement where you sell the games separately? I did not hear anyone complaining about it :)
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Gilozard: People are free to say what they want. But they're not free from repercussions, including others thinking they are assholes and wishing them well away.

No one is arguing that others should not express themselves. They are saying that they are tired of the in-your-face, every-thread-remotely-related-gets-derailed angry jerk tactics employed by some people and wish those people would go express themselves elsewhere.

This is a private space (i.e. owned in the private sector, not government-run). If people feel that others are disrupting their experience, it's perfectly compatible with supporting free speech to want them to leave.
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a4plz: Yeah, that's the whole connotation: that you can't take a person seriously if they identify as progressive while trying to suppress freedom of expression, one of the most fragile rights in human history.

Accurate ones? :3
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Gilozard: Wanting others to behave in public, or even too simply not be where one is, is not suppressing freedom of expression.

Censorship looks like this: The government calls a publication and makes them change their articles.

Suppressing freedom of speech looks like this: a whole group of people band together to attack, harass and slander people over their artistic vision.

This is not censorship or suppressing anything: I wish these people would go away because I find their behavior offensive.

Differences between 1 and everything else: The government

Differences between 3 and 2: Politeness, maturity, and not dictating what other people do.
I cannot say that I disagree with you. My point here is simple: People should feel free to say whatever it is that they want to say in so far as it does not dive into illegal forms of expression - (i.e. claiming that someone here molested a child or any other type of libel).. I do not think banning should be implemented simply because a person gets offended by content. With that said, I am okay with people making the argument that others should not say such things, but to imply that "I am in favor of freedom of expression" while making statements like "I wish other people would stop expressing their feelings that I disagree with" is a bit odd to say the least (keep in mind these are not direct quotes, but what I felt was implied from the posts above).

Thanks for the discussion!
Posted April 29, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNuSFBxYCT8
Posted April 29, 2016
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eiii: Only the first Icewind Dale will be deleted today (in addition to both Baldur's Gate games), right?
Right.
Posted April 29, 2016
low rated
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hummer010: How, exactly, are the originals so much better? 100% of the playable content of the original game is in the EE game. The only thing missing (and from BG1 only) are the original cutscenes. Otherwise, every conversation, every NPC, every quest, etc. from the original game is present in the EE version. That was part of the deal that Beamdog made with Hasbro - they couldn't modify or remove content, only add.
The EEs are also missing some of the quirks and bugs that are fun to play around with. Making certain effects not stack with themselves has the effect of making some of them useless (Armor of Faith comes to mind), for example. Plus, it's fun to underflow your scroll (BG1) or gem (BG2) counts. (Yes, some people may categorize it as cheating, but it's fun and doesn't require actually modifying the game or using cheats.)

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dtgreene: Except that cis is not an abbreviation.
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Starmaker: It is. STFU you amerocentric bigot.
Is there a reason you have to be so hostile *and* inaccurate here?
Post edited April 29, 2016 by dtgreene
Posted April 29, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: “If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott.

“In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
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Banjo_oz: Played the originals a fair bit back in the day, but only tried out the first EE a little. Was thinking of giving it a go (the DLC sounds rather awful and is very expensive, so I'll pass on that until a sale or curiosity gets the better of me!)... however, is the above saying that the EE actually *CHANGES* the original game because of things the new devs didn't like?! That *really* puts me off wanting to play that version if so. Censoring a game is bad enough, but changing some little element just because you personally just didn't like something?! That's what mods are for! :)

Or does it just mean that when making their new DLC, they added new dialog that "changed" the context of those things they didn't like? In other words, if I play the EE without the SoD DLC, I won't find any difference between the original version of Jaheira and the EE version (for example)?

The idea the DLC might include some transgendered character or hints at "topical issues" doesn't bother me, even it it *is* intended to push a dev/writer's agenda (most anything written does that, some are just better or more subtle about it!). The idea that the EE versions will actually change or censor the characters I know and love *does* offend me though, and means I'll stick to playing the originals instead now I'm tempted to replay these.

Can someone who's played the EE let me know?
Having played the EE almost to the end (and I don't have the DLC), the vanilla content is pretty much intact. The additional content is merely added on top of the original content (it clashes but it isn't too distracting).
Posted April 29, 2016
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Banjo_oz: Played the originals a fair bit back in the day, but only tried out the first EE a little. Was thinking of giving it a go (the DLC sounds rather awful and is very expensive, so I'll pass on that until a sale or curiosity gets the better of me!)... however, is the above saying that the EE actually *CHANGES* the original game because of things the new devs didn't like?! That *really* puts me off wanting to play that version if so. Censoring a game is bad enough, but changing some little element just because you personally just didn't like something?! That's what mods are for! :)

Or does it just mean that when making their new DLC, they added new dialog that "changed" the context of those things they didn't like? In other words, if I play the EE without the SoD DLC, I won't find any difference between the original version of Jaheira and the EE version (for example)?

The idea the DLC might include some transgendered character or hints at "topical issues" doesn't bother me, even it it *is* intended to push a dev/writer's agenda (most anything written does that, some are just better or more subtle about it!). The idea that the EE versions will actually change or censor the characters I know and love *does* offend me though, and means I'll stick to playing the originals instead now I'm tempted to replay these.

Can someone who's played the EE let me know?
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POLE7645: Having played the EE almost to the end (and I don't have the DLC), the vanilla content is pretty much intact. The additional content is merely added on top of the original content (it clashes but it isn't too distracting).
Thanks. So just a few added quests and (if I recall) a couple of new optional NPC party members that might seem more like "fan addons" than parts of the original game... rather than changes to the original quests, dialog, etc.? If so, I can deal with that just fine and just skip buying/installing the new DLC if I don't want it?

In regards to the controversy over the DLC, it just sounds like a "fan-made fan-fic expansion mod" in terms of how well it meshes (or doesn't) with the original game and fits with the original's lore and characters. That makes sense to me, regardless of content, as it's not by the original game's team or writers. I guess the big deal is that they're charging for this and saying it's as close to official as another dev making DLC for someone else's game can be (e.g. Opposing Force vs Half-Life). Nobody complains (or they shouldn't) that some Skyrim crazy sex mod is objectionable as it'd be a fan-made mod people are free to use or not, but having a commercial product push an agenda can leave a nasty taste, especially when it's one someone doesn't agree with, if it's badly done, or just flies in the face of the original game's tone/intent.
Post edited April 29, 2016 by Banjo_oz
Posted April 29, 2016
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POLE7645: Having played the EE almost to the end (and I don't have the DLC), the vanilla content is pretty much intact. The additional content is merely added on top of the original content (it clashes but it isn't too distracting).
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Banjo_oz: Thanks. So just a few added quests and (if I recall) a couple of new optional NPC party members that might seem more like "fan addons" than parts of the original game... rather than changes to the original quests, dialog, etc.? If so, I can deal with that just fine and just skip the DLC.
It's pretty much my view on the added content. It's not exactly bad and even have a few very good ideas, it's just very different from the rest of the game and clashes rather heavily with it (the transition is smoother with BG2EE, but you can still tell the difference). Kinda like Broken Sword: Director's Cut except without the original dialogue modified or cut (and I actually liked the additions of the Director's Cut).
Posted April 29, 2016
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Banjo_oz: Thanks. So just a few added quests and (if I recall) a couple of new optional NPC party members that might seem more like "fan addons" than parts of the original game... rather than changes to the original quests, dialog, etc.? If so, I can deal with that just fine and just skip the DLC.
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POLE7645: It's pretty much my view on the added content. It's not exactly bad and even have a few very good ideas, it's just very different from the rest of the game and clashes rather heavily with it (the transition is smoother with BG2EE, but you can still tell the difference). Kinda like Broken Sword: Director's Cut except without the original dialogue modified or cut (and I actually liked the additions of the Director's Cut).
Ah, that makes sense. I guess I'll go with the EEs for my playthrough this coming week then. No big technical glitches I have to worry about (more than the originals)? Also, out of curiosity, do they work well with major mods or have any been incorporated into the EE?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUpdate: 60% / 85% off Enhanced Editions: Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale
Original & Enhanced to become the Definitive Edition Bundle (822 posts)(822 posts)
(822 posts)