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General discussionUpdate: 60% / 85% off Enhanced Editions: Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale
Original & Enhanced to become the Definitive Edition Bundle (822 posts)(822 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 28, 2016
UPDATE: Heads up! There are 24h left, so now is the time to take advantage of the amazing deals and upgrade your collections. Eyes on the price, Boo, eyes on the price!



Years ago, the Baldur's Gate series changed the way we look at gaming and the scope of what was considered possible. Even now, the legacy continues through the Enhanced Editions – thanks to the hard work and years of updates to keep the inimitable Infinity Engine living on.



It's the work on the Enhanced Editions that made <span class="bold">Siege of Dragonspear</span> possible – the just-released, massive expansion to the timeless classic, available only for Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.

"The team at Beamdog was able to breathe a new life into the Infinity Engine classics." says Greg Tito, Communications Director for Dungeons & Dragons "We're proud to recognize their excellent work in offering the best possible experience and support for these legendary titles. We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."

On April 29, Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition will be expanded to include the classic versions – each becoming the Definitive Edition Bundle and not available for purchase separately. If you already own the classics on GOG.com, the games currently on your shelf won't be affected.

"We're excited to take our commitment and support to Baldur's Gate and GOG fans to the next level and humbled to work with such great partners. The Definitive Edition Bundle will give every Baldur's Gate fan what they're looking for" – concludes Cameron Tofer, Beamdog COO.



In the near future, we're also looking forward to full GOG Galaxy support for achievements in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition – as well as in the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear expansion.

Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition will be 75% off until April 4 11:59 PM PDT / April 5 2:59 AM EDT/ 7:59 BST and 60% off until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST. The 60% discount for Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST. The 85% discount for owners of the original saga will last until April 29 10:59 AM PDT / 1:59 PM EDT / 18:59 BST.
Post edited April 02, 2016 by maladr0Id
Posted April 07, 2016
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phaolo: But did you get my point?
Hyperbole?...

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Shadowstalker16: By ''Celts'' I think he meant the Celtic tribes which existed up to and during the Roman period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription
' There are roughly 400 known ogham inscriptions on stone monuments scattered around the Irish Sea, the bulk of them dating to the 5th and 6th centuries. Their language is predominantly Primitive Irish, but a few examples record fragments of the Pictish language. Ogham itself is an Early Medieval form of alphabet or cypher, sometimes known as the "Celtic Tree Alphabet". '

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
' Ogham /ˈɒɡəm/[1] (Modern Irish [ˈoːmˠ] or [ˈoːəmˠ]; Old Irish: ogam [ˈɔɣamˠ]) is an Early Medieval alphabet used to write the early Irish language (in the so-called "orthodox" inscriptions, 1st to 6th centuries), and later the Old Irish language (so-called scholastic ogham, 6th to 9th centuries). There are roughly 400 surviving orthodox inscriptions on stone monuments throughout Ireland and western Britain; the bulk of them are in southern Munster.[2] The largest number outside Ireland is in Pembrokeshire in Wales.[3] '

1. "ogham". Oxford English Dictionary (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press. September 2005. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)
2. McManus (1991) is aware of a total of 382 orthodox inscriptions. The later scholastic inscriptions have no definite endpoint and continue into the Middle Irish and even Modern Irish period, and record also names in other languages, such as Old Norse, (Old) Welsh, Latin and possibly Pictish. See Forsyth, K.; "Abstract: The Three Writing Systems of the Picts." in Black et al. Celtic Connections: Proceedings of the Tenth International Congress of Celtic Studies, Vol. 1. East Linton: Tuckwell Press (1999), p. 508; Richard A V Cox, The Language of the Ogam Inscriptions of Scotland, Dept. of Celtic, Aberdeen University ISBN 0-9523911-3-9 [1]; See also The New Companion to the Literature of Wales, by Meic Stephens, page 540.
3. O'Kelly, Michael J., 'Early Ireland, an Introduction to Irish Prehistory', p. 251, Cambridge University Press, 1989
Posted April 07, 2016
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phaolo: But did you get my point?
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ValamirCleaver: Hyperbole?...
Well yes, in some ways.
Also, check the second part of my post, if you missed my edit.

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Shadowstalker16: By ''Celts'' I think he meant the Celtic tribes which existed up to and during the Roman period.
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ValamirCleaver: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription[..]
Uh guys, the problem is that Tolkien's classic fantasy themes aren't exactly the same as some alleged Viking or Celtic.. "liberal" customs.
Post edited April 07, 2016 by phaolo
Posted April 07, 2016
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vsr: Interesting. Both classic BG's and newer ones, "Enhanced" editions (those were enhanced with LGBT ideas obviously), have a PEGI rating of 12+.

But in Russia propaganda of homosexualism is forbidden among younglings (i.e. under 18).
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Shadowstalker16: Inclusion needn't be propaganda. And propaganda isn't an objective term.
Call it whatever you want (inclusion, sexual education, etc). The essence remains the same - LGBT propaganda.
Posted April 07, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: Inclusion needn't be propaganda. And propaganda isn't an objective term.
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vsr: Call it whatever you want (inclusion, sexual education, etc). The essence remains the same - LGBT propaganda.
No it doesn't. ''Propaganda'' to the layperson refers to media created to mislead people, especially on the matters of political / religious causes. Dictionary definitions being :https://www.google.co.in/search?q=propaganda+meaning&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;gws_rd=cr&amp;ei=1DQGV8bNOsy9uASJkqTICA

You cannot say for certain if something is misleading unless you know it is conveying incorrect information. So as long as some media with LGBT isn't conveying incorrect (in this case positive towards) information about LGBT matters. its not propaganda, its just truth.
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phaolo: But did you get my point?
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ValamirCleaver: Hyperbole?...

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Shadowstalker16: By ''Celts'' I think he meant the Celtic tribes which existed up to and during the Roman period.
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ValamirCleaver: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription
' There are roughly 400 known ogham inscriptions on stone monuments scattered around the Irish Sea, the bulk of them dating to the 5th and 6th centuries. Their language is predominantly Primitive Irish, but a few examples record fragments of the Pictish language. Ogham itself is an Early Medieval form of alphabet or cypher, sometimes known as the "Celtic Tree Alphabet". '

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
' Ogham /ˈɒɡəm/[1] (Modern Irish [ˈoːmˠ] or [ˈoːəmˠ]; Old Irish: ogam [ˈɔɣamˠ]) is an Early Medieval alphabet used to write the early Irish language (in the so-called "orthodox" inscriptions, 1st to 6th centuries), and later the Old Irish language (so-called scholastic ogham, 6th to 9th centuries). There are roughly 400 surviving orthodox inscriptions on stone monuments throughout Ireland and western Britain; the bulk of them are in southern Munster.[2] The largest number outside Ireland is in Pembrokeshire in Wales.[3] '

1. "ogham". Oxford English Dictionary (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press. September 2005. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)
2. McManus (1991) is aware of a total of 382 orthodox inscriptions. The later scholastic inscriptions have no definite endpoint and continue into the Middle Irish and even Modern Irish period, and record also names in other languages, such as Old Norse, (Old) Welsh, Latin and possibly Pictish. See Forsyth, K.; "Abstract: The Three Writing Systems of the Picts." in Black et al. Celtic Connections: Proceedings of the Tenth International Congress of Celtic Studies, Vol. 1. East Linton: Tuckwell Press (1999), p. 508; Richard A V Cox, The Language of the Ogam Inscriptions of Scotland, Dept. of Celtic, Aberdeen University ISBN 0-9523911-3-9 [1]; See also The New Companion to the Literature of Wales, by Meic Stephens, page 540.
3. O'Kelly, Michael J., 'Early Ireland, an Introduction to Irish Prehistory', p. 251, Cambridge University Press, 1989
Random copypasta. I shall enjoy it after culturally enriching it with Heinz Tomato Ketchup.

Seriously though, that is random copypasta. I don't get what you're saying. That that was the only Celtic language?
Post edited April 07, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
Posted April 07, 2016
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vsr: Call it whatever you want (inclusion, sexual education, etc). The essence remains the same - LGBT propaganda.
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Shadowstalker16: No it doesn't. ''Propaganda'' to the layperson refers to media created to mislead people, especially on the matters of political / religious causes.
No, it does. :P
There is propaganda of healthy way of life, propaganda of sport, propaganda of culture, propaganda of patriotism. Those are examples of good propaganda. But what is good for you, might be bad for your enemies (they'd rather want you to be ill, weak, uneducated, hate your own country and have split society).

So, propaganda can be good and bad. You have to understand the difference.

Unfortunately thanks to western media's ongoing informational war against Russia, this word has only a negative sense now (in Western and pro-Western countries). And you are a good example of this (or, you're just trolling).
Posted April 07, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: Random copypasta. I shall enjoy it after culturally enriching it with Heinz Tomato Ketchup.
Gilozard said
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Gilozard: Parts of medieval Europe were less sexist than parts of the current US. Look into Norse and Celt social structures, they're fascinating. 'Modern' themes like workers rights were the flashpoint for massive religious and cultural wars across Europe. Racial minorities were more accepted than you might think, depending on the time period and place.
To which you replied
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Shadowstalker16: I believe you based on the mindblowing amount of proof you have for this particular thing from cultures which didn't keep written documents. Interesting to see people always do this kind of cathartic revisionism on cultures whose many habits are not as well known as most others. Keep ind mind history is a balancing of theories as much as it is saying particular civilizations did or didn't do this. Looks to me like you subscribe too much to the Vikings TV show version.
To which I responded
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ValamirCleaver: Didn't keep written documents?...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription
Which are obviously articles showing that the Northern Germanic speaking Vikings and both the Goidelic and Brittonic speaking Celts produced a sizable corpus written material in their own languages that has been studied, published and peer reviewed by academia.

If all you're going to do is to constantly move the goalposts or outright dismiss outright (such as your "copypasta" comment quoted above) anything that doesn't adhere to your preconceived notions; it would lead me to assume that you're not interested in logical debate, but want to berate Gilozard because his views don't match your own.
Post edited April 07, 2016 by ValamirCleaver
Posted April 07, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: No it doesn't. ''Propaganda'' to the layperson refers to media created to mislead people, especially on the matters of political / religious causes.
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vsr: No, it does. :P
There is propaganda of healthy way of life, propaganda of sport, propaganda of culture, propaganda of patriotism. Those are examples of good propaganda. But what is good for you, might be bad for your enemies (they'd rather want you to be ill, weak, uneducated, hate your own country and have split society).

So, propaganda can be good and bad. You have to understand the difference.

Unfortunately thanks to western media's ongoing informational war against Russia, this word has only a negative sense now (in Western and pro-Western countries). And you are a good example of this (or, you're just trolling).
No, propaganda elicits emotions instead of thoughts. Its trying to force you to make decisions based on feelings rather than facts. Not all media is like that. You know that all love stories don't have the same level of tear-jerking potential, for example. That is because some aren't as emotionally strong as others. Propaganda is just this emotionally strong media, but used for political purpose. Here, the subject doesn't matter, what matters is the capability to generate emotions in the person consuming the media. So it is quite possible to have media that portrays LGBT characters / themes without it being the dictionary definition of propaganda.

Good or bad propaganda really depends on the point of view really. Ideally, you should be using truth instead of propaganda. Just look at how propaganda backfired on Hitler.
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Shadowstalker16: Random copypasta. I shall enjoy it after culturally enriching it with Heinz Tomato Ketchup.
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ValamirCleaver: Gilozard said
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Gilozard: Parts of medieval Europe were less sexist than parts of the current US. Look into Norse and Celt social structures, they're fascinating. 'Modern' themes like workers rights were the flashpoint for massive religious and cultural wars across Europe. Racial minorities were more accepted than you might think, depending on the time period and place.
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ValamirCleaver: To which you replied
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Shadowstalker16: I believe you based on the mindblowing amount of proof you have for this particular thing from cultures which didn't keep written documents. Interesting to see people always do this kind of cathartic revisionism on cultures whose many habits are not as well known as most others. Keep ind mind history is a balancing of theories as much as it is saying particular civilizations did or didn't do this. Looks to me like you subscribe too much to the Vikings TV show version.
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ValamirCleaver: To which I responded
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ValamirCleaver: Didn't keep written documents?...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription
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ValamirCleaver: Which are obviously articles showing that the Northern Germanic speaking Vikings and both the Goidelic and Brittonic speaking Celts produced a sizable corpus written material in their own languages that has been studied, published and peer reviewed by academia.

If all you're going to do is to constantly move the goalposts or outright dismiss outright (such as your "copypasta" comment quoted above) anything that doesn't your preconceived notions; it would lead me to assume that you're not interested in logical debate, but want to berate Gilozard because his views don't match your own.
No, you are saying that the numbers from that wikipedia page can be called substantial, to which I replied they are not compared to what we know about other old cultures. Everything I said still backs up my original argument. We don't as much about the Celtic or Scandinavian cultures that we can objectively say they were not sexist or sexist or whatever. I am debating this because I find revisionist history ignoring facts based off cathartic TV shows to be dumb. I reiterate. You said the number of documents are substantial. I said they aren't.

If you want your comments with mistakes corected by the facts in yours, I can say that while they did keep written records, the number of those documents and information we can get out of them aren't enough paint this one theory as the true one over others.

Happy?
Post edited April 07, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
Posted April 07, 2016
I got it because of the sale. And in all honesty, while some of the interface improvements are nice (EE runs a bit easier than WeiDU Widescreen mod for me), for the most part I don't think it's all that better.


In fact, I got it with the sale out of curiosity. And after playing a couple of hours I thought "Meh", and reinstalled original Baldur's gate 1 +2 with mods and the Trilogy addon. The experience is more satisfying.
Posted April 07, 2016
Why original versions will be removed?

I don't want to have to give money to Beamdog to get them, or recommend anyone to buy from Beamdog!
Posted April 07, 2016
high rated
What I don't get is why aggressive political hacks on the left need to inject their very modern politics on what was hitherto an apolitical existing franchise.

To be CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, I'm NOT anti-LBGT, and am often frustrated that most modern feminism tends to be of the 3rd wave, TERF variety.

HOWEVER, there is a danger in ham-fisted insertion of political preaching in any work. To influence people and not annoy them, a compelling story must be presented, and the player shouldn't be told from the outset what a horrible person s/he is.

Now this isn't to say the player should never be made uncomfortable. Spec Ops: The Line trades on making the player squirm in his/her seat to GREAT effect. But it does so by presenting itself raw, without the developer lecturing users, leaving them to fill in the dots themselves. As a result, Spec Ops: The Line is far less likely to alienate people than, say, Sunset or Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear

Unfortunately, most indie developers see fit to tell the player that s/he is a disgusting sack of shit unless they're a hard-line leftist. Being center-left myself, it makes indie games far, FAR less appealing than they would be if said developers showed any restraint at all.
Posted April 07, 2016
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Speeder: Why original versions will be removed?

I don't want to have to give money to Beamdog to get them, or recommend anyone to buy from Beamdog!
They're not being removed, they're being bundled. If you don't want to give Beamdog money, then buy them before the 29th of April.
Posted April 07, 2016
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GrossorMD: I got it because of the sale. And in all honesty, while some of the interface improvements are nice (EE runs a bit easier than WeiDU Widescreen mod for me), for the most part I don't think it's all that better.

In fact, I got it with the sale out of curiosity. And after playing a couple of hours I thought "Meh", and reinstalled original Baldur's gate 1 +2 with mods and the Trilogy addon. The experience is more satisfying.
The ability to play something other than the same old boring classic D&D classes make it worth it to me. Especially when forced to go back to earlier D&D editions.
Posted April 08, 2016
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qwixter: The ability to play something other than the same old boring classic D&D classes make it worth it to me. Especially when forced to go back to earlier D&D editions.
But you can add new classes and extra content to vanilla BG with mods anyway, which often are just as good as EE's or better. That's part of the reason I moved back to regular BG so soon.

Another reason is that many mods, including, most damningly, Baldur's Gate Trilogy, do not work with EE. There's a different group working on an EETrilogy mod, but I believe it's not the same at all as BGT, and will require that you own Siege of Dragonspear as well (which is expensive, and for what I've heard, fairly shallow).
Posted April 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: No, you are saying that the numbers from that wikipedia page can be called substantial, to which I replied they are not compared to what we know about other old cultures. Everything I said still backs up my original argument. We don't as much about the Celtic or Scandinavian cultures that we can objectively say they were not sexist or sexist or whatever. I am debating this because I find revisionist history ignoring facts based off cathartic TV shows to be dumb. I reiterate. You said the number of documents are substantial.
Neither Gilozard nor I mentioned any "cathartic TV shows", you did. That seems to me to be obviously straw manning on your part. Go ahead and read the posts to double check that that is so. You claimed that Gilozard, "I believe you based on the mindblowing amount of proof you have for this particular thing from cultures which didn't keep written documents." I gave proof, "that the Northern Germanic speaking Vikings and both the Goidelic and Brittonic speaking Celts produced a sizable corpus written material in their own languages that has been studied, published and peer reviewed by academia." You moved the goalposts by dismissively replying with "And ofc I don't need to argue that we still don't know as much about the Vikings as well as we do about the Greeks or Romans for example." and "Random copypasta. I shall enjoy it after culturally enriching it with Heinz Tomato Ketchup." among other things.

I fail to see where either Gilzard or I are using logical fallacies in an attempt to bolster our opinions despite in my opinion you have resorted to such.
Posted April 08, 2016
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Shadowstalker16: No, you are saying that the numbers from that wikipedia page can be called substantial, to which I replied they are not compared to what we know about other old cultures. Everything I said still backs up my original argument. We don't as much about the Celtic or Scandinavian cultures that we can objectively say they were not sexist or sexist or whatever. I am debating this because I find revisionist history ignoring facts based off cathartic TV shows to be dumb. I reiterate. You said the number of documents are substantial.
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ValamirCleaver: Neither Gilozard nor I mentioned any "cathartic TV shows", you did. That seems to me to be obviously straw manning on your part. Go ahead and read the posts to double check that that is so. You claimed that Gilozard, "I believe you based on the mindblowing amount of proof you have for this particular thing from cultures which didn't keep written documents." I gave proof, "that the Northern Germanic speaking Vikings and both the Goidelic and Brittonic speaking Celts produced a sizable corpus written material in their own languages that has been studied, published and peer reviewed by academia." You moved the goalposts by dismissively replying with "And ofc I don't need to argue that we still don't know as much about the Vikings as well as we do about the Greeks or Romans for example." and "Random copypasta. I shall enjoy it after culturally enriching it with Heinz Tomato Ketchup." among other things.

I fail to see where either Gilzard or I are using logical fallacies in an attempt to bolster our opinions despite in my opinion you have resorted to such.
I was saying that the belief in non-sexist Vikings or whatever is probably a result of believing the interpretations of TV shows. And Yes, I did mention, not you. I didn't say you did. I said this belief most likely comes out of it. I said they didn't keep written documents. You proved I was wrong, that those particular tribes from that period kept them. You were the one strawmanning that those two examples could somehow taken as the whole of ''Cletic'' and ''Viking'' culture. I wasn't shifting the goalposts, but saying what was saying from the start; that we don't have as much information on Cletic or Viking cultures as we do on the others, and when we're still debating the cultures of well studied civilizations, we cannot be sure about anything from those which left even lesser records behind than the more well known ones. You then copy pasted something of which I still don't know the significance. Are you implying those writings can account for every group of people that we call ''Celts'' and ''Vikings''?
And FFS what is it with people and whining on about fallacies before trying to understand or clarify about what both sides were saying?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUpdate: 60% / 85% off Enhanced Editions: Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale
Original & Enhanced to become the Definitive Edition Bundle (822 posts)(822 posts)
(822 posts)