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nightcraw1er.488: In terms of your suggestion, who is going to pay for all that? GOG can’t even get release thread links right, and make a point of never fixing anything other than galaxy. So who is going to police this? How are you going to interview to see if their “opinion” is valid. Who is it for anyone to say someone else’s opinion, regardless of how they come to it, is? Are you going to chase down industry “experts” or youlubers who are obviously brought and paid for?
I used games from GOG to show its relevancy here, but it'd applicable to all medium platforms. And it'd be entirely volunteer-based like academia; professors and researchers peer review articles on their own free time to help advance the community's understanding. Policing the reviews would be left to players as always based on helpful or not helpful rating, similar to their citation system. The panel can be composed of whoever are relevant players or reviewers in their communities. If there are individuals who are compromised, there would be a check in the panel to remove those people.
Nah, it’s clearly completely pointless and never going to work. Simply put reviews are there, read them and make up your own mind. Heck, you can’t even rely on release information (just look at cyberpunk), or promises or details from developers. You however are surely capable of looking at some screenshots, reading some text, and coming up with your own independent thought?
The idea was to give more value to the ratings and reviews to better streamline consumer decision-making. After spending 30 minutes deciding whether or not I should get the game, it'd be much easier if I can better rely on a set of accurate data and a game's store page. If the system was designed well, it'd theoretically be able to tell you the game is bad without you needing to self-check it. Otherwise, what's the point of these user reviews if large enough sample size can compromise the score with disingenuous info?

If there's a better way to remove inaccurate reviews from circulation, please let me know.
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AB2012: In theory people should indeed judge games on their own merit. In practise, we live in a time where cheesy cash-grabs of "minimum effort remasters + remove the old game from sale purely to quadruple the price of a 20 year old game" seem to be becoming the new trend, and obviously the new game hardly exists in a vacuum.
Well said....your entire post I mean, and not just this snipped bit.
(though this snipped bit I especially agree with)

My own example:

Gabriel Knight 1's original version has very decent voice acting by some well known names(Tim Curry, Mark Hamill, etc), a great musical score(especially the intro track), an amazing intro, and nicely drawn graphics.....and all for around 6 bucks.

Gabriel Knight 1's remake/remaster has a new generic sounding musical score(especially the new intro score), new so-so voice acting, a subpar looking new intro(when compared to the original), etc etc......and costing around 20 bucks.

The original looks/sounds/feels unique & like something one could get lost in for hours(and I happily do so every so often).....while the new one looks/sounds/feels like something run-of-the-mill & more easily forgettable.



=-=-=-=

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Crosmando: Is it true they censored Miranda's ass in the ME remasters?
Yep, and I heard they're going to censor certain dialog and other scenes as well.

"Mass Effect: Legendarily Bowdlerized Edition"
Post edited May 15, 2021 by GamezRanker
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Elefuntitus: If you write a review for any sequel or remake and your opinion is solely based on your experience with previous games in the franchise I am going to mark your review as not helpful and not read it . There are so many people who get so attached to the idea of what a previous rendition of a game meant to them, they are completely blind to some of the good qualities of new games. The amount of times I've read: these new devs don't understand what made [old] great; a mere cash grab at nostalgia; just play the original instead - is cliche trite at this point. I'm not saying cash grabs don't exist or the spirit of the original game isn't sometimes carried over, but I think you should know that there has been at least thirty years between you and your favourite game, in which, teams have turned over, game design has changed and your inability to see the flaws of your favourite game have been entrenched in your mind. I'm quite tired of people taking poorly developed games as a personal insult. You are a person beyond this game that has meant so much to you, and there were flaws to that game when it came out and was often patched to a more playable state than it was at release as well. This is particularly relevant when I come across a review of a game that was written a short time after a sequel or a remake was released, and it doesn't take into account any of the development that has occurred after launch. Devs shouldn't be in a criticism free space but if I was in their position I often would completely disregard any opinion that starts with, I've been a fan of this series since the beginning but this game...

TLDR
I think your review is worthless if your thesis hangs on nostalgia, and you should stop acting like you are being personally attacked if a game fails to live up to your expectations.
Different people are looking for different things in reviews. And fanboys will fanboy, regardless. I don't think anyone in particularly cares about whether you personaly will read their review or not. They don't know you, and nor do i. I guess this is an appropriate time to use the age on cynical punchline:

no one cares
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AB2012: And telling game reviewers "it's their fault" for not waiting until a game is fully patched before reviewing it whilst the publishers aggressively push pre-orders 2-3 years in advance of that moment is not a particularly honest stance when it comes to actually pinning the "buggy games get downvoted" blame where it lies
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BrianSim: ^ Definitely this too. You want a reduction in "this game is massively buggy" release day reviews? Forget about shooting the messenger and start re-incentivising the concept of making a good first impression BEFORE you get paid by banning the extremely anti-consumer combination of pre-orders + review embargoes where "professional" game reviewers are literally getting paid to HIDE problems with games pre-release whilst the publisher pockets the pre-order money on the back of false media representation... (Puts on "fake surprised face" when post release the negative amateur reviews made by people not under embargo turn out to paint quite a different picture than the paid for industry over-hype 'suggested'...)
This +1000. If game publishers release a game that is a buggy mess whilst claiming it is finished and charging full price for it, they should be rightfully punished. But unfortunately many fan boys/girls seem to be willing to overlook almost anything and throw them their pre-order money anyway. Sad.
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BrianSim: ^ Definitely this too. You want a reduction in "this game is massively buggy" release day reviews? Forget about shooting the messenger and start re-incentivising the concept of making a good first impression BEFORE you get paid by banning the extremely anti-consumer combination of pre-orders + review embargoes where "professional" game reviewers are literally getting paid to HIDE problems with games pre-release whilst the publisher pockets the pre-order money on the back of false media representation... (Puts on "fake surprised face" when post release the negative amateur reviews made by people not under embargo turn out to paint quite a different picture than the paid for industry over-hype 'suggested'...)
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Time4Tea: This +1000. If game publishers release a game that is a buggy mess whilst claiming it is finished and charging full price for it, they should be rightfully punished. But unfortunately many fan boys/girls seem to be willing to overlook almost anything and throw them their pre-order money anyway. Sad.
Sad seems to be a poor qualifier. Take a series such as total war for example, Every new title brings with it almost the same launch issues as could be seen by its predecessors. From lackluster ai behavior towards incomprehensible design choices, most will be routed out over the years that follow, together with both loads of DLC and FLC.

How can you call someone who's used to such a design system sad in any way? And what does this have to do with bad or worse written reviews?

Point of fact, magazine affiliated researchers do want to sell their magazine's/streams or what ever they use.

User reviews will include any and all from the people that play the game, this will mean youngsters, professionals and even the occasional gamer

The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play. In that way you will probably root out the whole, i can't play the game so i hate it variant and probably kill some other minor bugs too
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Zimerius: The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play.
You do realise there are many games that are not even 10 hours long as a whole, right? And who is going to play a game they don't like for 30 hours?

Seriously people, you have to deal with the fact that no one is going to remove all the reviews you find unhelpfull for you. You actually have to use your brains and do for yourself the work of disregarding reviews that don't meet whatever criteria you set.
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Zimerius: Sad seems to be a poor qualifier. Take a series such as total war for example, Every new title brings with it almost the same launch issues as could be seen by its predecessors. From lackluster ai behavior towards incomprehensible design choices, most will be routed out over the years that follow, together with both loads of DLC and FLC.

How can you call someone who's used to such a design system sad in any way? And what does this have to do with bad or worse written reviews?
If people are throwing money at game companies that are releasing broken games and they are getting away with it time after time, I'd say that is a sad state of affairs. That mindset appears to have led to a general downward trend in game quality across the industry, and a general acceptance of games being poor-quality on launch.

(disclaimer: I haven't played any of the Total War games, since they are DRM-ed)

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Zimerius: The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play. In that way you will probably root out the whole, i can't play the game so i hate it variant and probably kill some other minor bugs too
I think it is an interesting idea, but the only way it can be enforced would be via DRM and telemetry. So, I don't think it can be implemented in an ethical way.
Post edited May 15, 2021 by Time4Tea
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Breja: Seriously people, you have to deal with the fact that no one is going to remove all the reviews you find unhelpfull for you. You actually have to use your brains and do for yourself the work of disregarding reviews that don't meet whatever criteria you set.
This tbh

Side musing: just more examples of how people(in general) seem to be getting more lazy due to the ease(relatively speaking) of life in the first world
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nightcraw1er.488: In terms of your suggestion, who is going to pay for all that? GOG can’t even get release thread links right, and make a point of never fixing anything other than galaxy. So who is going to police this? How are you going to interview to see if their “opinion” is valid. Who is it for anyone to say someone else’s opinion, regardless of how they come to it, is? Are you going to chase down industry “experts” or youlubers who are obviously brought and paid for?
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Canuck_Cat: I used games from GOG to show its relevancy here, but it'd applicable to all medium platforms. And it'd be entirely volunteer-based like academia; professors and researchers peer review articles on their own free time to help advance the community's understanding. Policing the reviews would be left to players as always based on helpful or not helpful rating, similar to their citation system. The panel can be composed of whoever are relevant players or reviewers in their communities. If there are individuals who are compromised, there would be a check in the panel to remove those people.

Nah, it’s clearly completely pointless and never going to work. Simply put reviews are there, read them and make up your own mind. Heck, you can’t even rely on release information (just look at cyberpunk), or promises or details from developers. You however are surely capable of looking at some screenshots, reading some text, and coming up with your own independent thought?
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Canuck_Cat: The idea was to give more value to the ratings and reviews to better streamline consumer decision-making. After spending 30 minutes deciding whether or not I should get the game, it'd be much easier if I can better rely on a set of accurate data and a game's store page. If the system was designed well, it'd theoretically be able to tell you the game is bad without you needing to self-check it. Otherwise, what's the point of these user reviews if large enough sample size can compromise the score with disingenuous info?

If there's a better way to remove inaccurate reviews from circulation, please let me know.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted, so +1 from me. I disagree, I mean in an ideal world, yes everyone would follow a set of rules and reviews would be analysable. But that is not the world we live in, or will ever. It’s up to you at the end of the day. I just make up my own mind, only occasionally, perhaps if someone I know has the same tastes recommends, or further information comes to hand, then I will revisit. But most of the time you can narrow down based on genre, screenshots/videos, developer, and previous games. I rarely even bother to look at reviews.
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Zimerius: The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play.
Trying to tie "game-time recorded" to being "permitted" to review a game doesn't work at all because:-

1. There's a huge difference between a 45min walking sim vs a 100hr RPG.

2. Quantity still doesn't = quality. I've seen reviews by people with 80hrs in a game waffling on about their personal politics that literally have nothing to do with the game. And I've seen "short and to the point" reviews that have concisely nailed down everything wrong with a game in under an hour. Some games are so broken it becomes apparent in the first 5mins what the issues are (you hardly need 30hrs in Big Rigs to be regarded as a "true reviewer" to call out the obvious). So you end up with people refunding in under 2hrs being unable to say why they refunded it. And people who force played 10-30hrs to be "permitted" to leave a review having to answer troll questions like "If you don't like it, why didn't you refund it before 10 hours?..."

3. Anyone can fake game-time anyway by leaving a game on the main menu screen idling in the background. "Game time played" as Steam & GOG record it isn't "gameplay" at all, it's .exe run time.

4. The flip-side of 4 is you'll discriminate against client-free users (because every game on their account will show 0.0hrs played, even if they have 1,000hrs offline gameplay).

At the end of the day Breja (post #51) is right, you'll never please everyone and their own idea of what a "perfect review" will be. The best thing is to simply have a lot of reviews that will statistically be more likely to contain useful information on average.
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Zimerius: The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play.
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AB2012: Trying to tie "game-time recorded" to being "permitted" to review a game doesn't work at all because:-

1. There's a huge difference between a 45min walking sim vs a 100hr RPG.

2. Quantity still doesn't = quality. I've seen reviews by people with 80hrs in a game waffling on about their personal politics that literally have nothing to do with the game. And I've seen "short and to the point" reviews that have concisely nailed down everything wrong with a game in under an hour. Some games are so broken it becomes apparent in the first 5mins what the issues are (you hardly need 30hrs in Big Rigs to be regarded as a "true reviewer" to call out the obvious). So you end up with people refunding in under 2hrs being unable to say why they refunded it. And people who force played 10-30hrs to be "permitted" to leave a review having to answer troll questions like "If you don't like it, why didn't you refund it before 10 hours?..."

3. Anyone can fake game-time anyway by leaving a game on the main menu screen idling in the background. "Game time played" as Steam & GOG record it isn't "gameplay" at all, it's .exe run time.

4. The flip-side of 4 is you'll discriminate against client-free users (because every game on their account will show 0.0hrs played, even if they have 1,000hrs offline gameplay).

At the end of the day Breja (post #51) is right, you'll never please everyone and their own idea of what a "perfect review" will be. The best thing is to simply have a lot of reviews that will statistically be more likely to contain useful information on average.
It does seem so, i did not consider the ethical part either. Luckily i do know how to apply different sets of filters though even more important, the realization that gaming for the most part is aimed at a younger, more forgiving, easier satisfied crowd helps even more in understanding / accepting what you buy into.

Again personally i'd prefer some more conditions before being able to write a review, if not 10 hours, then at least 5. leaving everyone out who does not submit their usage which, is in my opinion almost a critical bit of information needed to appreciate the reviewers work
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AB2012: I think people grasp the difference between a Total Conversion ...
...
still be "a shower of roses"...
I mostly play old games, so no there's no bias against them. I simply oppose the mentality that any change is inherently worse. I just find there are a lot of lies in the reviews and some have kept me from playing games, because outside of watching videos, which sometimes can be difficult to find for a niche game, player reviews are one of the only sources someone can go to for an impression of the game pre-purchase.

In general I just think it would be nice if people judged a game on its own merits and not on their, often, idealized experience with other games in the franchise. Some of the most well regarded games of the past, Jagged Alliance 2 or AOW are good examples, were basically unknown games at their launches. This mentality of always looking at old games as the standard is a form of confirmation bias, that I can safely bet, prevents many people from getting into newer games.

And I think this race that a lot of people have to shit all over a game if it's buggy at launch is more harmful than helpful. I know asking for rationality on the internet is a fool's errand, but there are like ten games that I can think of that were buggy at launch but people love them today. Criticise a game for its flaws, but people that are saying a game is a total failure because it has a different approach than previous renditions are just closed minded.
Post edited May 16, 2021 by Elefuntitus
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AB2012: I think people grasp the difference between a Total Conversion ...
...
still be "a shower of roses"...
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Elefuntitus: I mostly play old games, so no there's no bias against them. I simply oppose the mentality that people get into that any change is inherently worse. I just find there are a lot of lies in the reviews and some have kept me from playing games, because outside of watching videos, which sometimes can be difficult to find for a niche game, player reviews are one of the only sources someone can go to for an impression of the game pre-purchase.

In general I just think it would be nice if people judged a game on its own merits and not on their, often, idealized experience with other games in the franchise. Some of the most well regarded games of the past, Jagged Alliance 2 or AOW are good examples, were basically unknown games at their launches. This mentality of always looking at old games as the standard is a form of confirmation bias, that I can safely bet, prevents many people from getting into newer games.

And I think this race that a lot of people have to shit all over a game if it's buggy at launch is more harmful than helpful. I know asking for rationality on the internet is a fool's errand, but there are like ten games that I can think of that were buggy at launch but people love them today. Criticise a game for its flaws, but people that are saying a game is a total failure because it has a different approach than previous renditions are just closed minded.
But it is quite possible for those different approaches to ruin a game. For instance I have just played modern warfare 3 and black ops, they are ok games nothing special. Now I am on black ops 2, and it really is not fun. All the bad bits from the previous games are brought to the fore, unskippable vids, QTEs, and it also added in a sort of managerial of teams and robots thing which frankly was utter rubbish (to quantify, keys seems to take ages to do actually do what they supposed to, it’s vastly over complicated, ruins the flow of an FPS). Now in your example, I am not allowed to report these issues as I am just harping back to earlier games in the series?
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Zimerius: The only addition i would like to see, to the personal review is to prevent people from sharing a review based on less then 10 or maybe even 30 hours of play.
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Breja: You do realise there are many games that are not even 10 hours long as a whole, right? And who is going to play a game they don't like for 30 hours?

Seriously people, you have to deal with the fact that no one is going to remove all the reviews you find unhelpfull for you. You actually have to use your brains and do for yourself the work of disregarding reviews that don't meet whatever criteria you set.
i think i've said this a few times before, but i do try to beat games with cheat codes even if i hate them. "best" example was postal 1 back in the day. i sold off the game soon after beating it.
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Elefuntitus: Criticise a game for its flaws, but people that are saying a game is a total failure because it has a different approach than previous renditions are just closed minded.
Some people do that if the new version is objectively/subjectively worse in ways then the original.....not all such reviews are "old game versions the best, new game versions are crap!", you know. :)

Also being close minded is bad, but blindly gobbling up & praising something new just because it's new isn't too good either.
Post edited May 16, 2021 by GamezRanker