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General discussionCyberpunk 2077 is a FPS.....sadness....(85 posts)(85 posts)
(85 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 01, 2018
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: CYBERMAGE: Darklight Awakening!!!
Aww, now you reminded me of Cyberstorm (the spin off of the Earthsiege universe) and made me sad.
Posted July 01, 2018
To make a good game, you WILL have to cut some features that you at some point planned or considered. It is called to kill your darlings.

As I play games shown in any view form, I am more worried about whether it will be a good game or not.
Posted July 01, 2018
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Linko90: Oh, I get why they assumed it was third person, purely due to past CD Red games being third person. But I genuinely think this is an awful mindset to approach any level of creative media with.
Totally agree. Good game developing studios always try to work in different genres. And considering that Deus Ex and System Shock (the most well known cyberpunk series) were first person, one could as easily assume that Cyberpunk will also be first person.
Posted July 02, 2018
What I find most odd about the various discussions of visual perspectives in games is the terminology used to talk about whether an avatar for the main character is used in a game. While it's going to be the theme and storyline that matters to me more, there is no single type of interface to ensure I won't get fed up with the presentation (interface) and stop wasting my time with it. Firsthand experience is what has mattered, not speculation.

With that said, what I'm noticing is the game is more cyborg-punk than cyberpunk. I don't know what Cyberpunk 2020 was like, and since it's going to be some years later in 2077 then the original setting really doesn't matter to me. I'm sure I would be fine with any major changes or shifts, if I had had any notion at all what they were.

My interests have to do with the name, and so far what's been revealed doesn't match with how I'd use the term "cyberpunk". But then again, language is ever changing, so in 2077 connotations associated with terminology will have changed in one way or another.

So what it really comes down to is the role-playing. I'm definitely not comfortable role-playing an amputee, no matter how fancy the prosthetics. I'm not looking forward to having to ever come to terms with any loss of body parts in real life. And I'm not convinced non-organic materials can be mechanically engineered to blend well enough with the body without an awkward sense of balance (unsymmetrical mass distribution) and without unsymmetrical organic fatigue. For example, I would likely feel tiredness from my organic body without being able to feel tiredness from the prosthetics. I can only imagine it feeling weird, obviously because of my lack of familiarness with the actual circumstance. But to repeat myself, coming to terms with such circumstances would be a conflict of interests for me, so I'd prefer avoiding role-playing something like that.

I might be comfortable with simply following through with a story about someone else with such physical modifications, but I don't think I would ever believe I had understood the experiences. I certainly would be without an envy for knowing, though my curiosity might ache with a yearning for making some sense of it (if I did play a game like that).
Posted July 02, 2018
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anothername: And when you try to start to get why they assumed you might begin to be less confused about the unexpected big backlash. I hope. :(
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Linko90: Oh, I get why they assumed it was third person, purely due to past CD Red games being third person. But I genuinely think this is an awful mindset to approach any level of creative media with.
Everything you've said in this board is accurately the truth. All too often people hype themselves up on how they want something to be, based on their experiences and/or the track record of the creator(s) of the "new" project, regardless of what it is. I for one cannot wait for Cyberpunk 2077, because I find the greatness in virtually every game. Hence why my collection of gaming both on GOG and elsewhere is one of the richest, and largest, people have these days. I'm happy that CD Red releases a stellar game, but I"m pretty convinced that's the truth.

Game's should never be limited to a certain framework, and new takes on classic styles need to pop up to show that old can be new, and new can be old, in addition to new innovations in game design.

If people want to be sticks in the mud because it's not what they envisioned it, that's their loss. Maybe someday they'll broaden their minds and accept something different. Accepting difference and enjoying things for what they are is hard for people, but it's one of the most rewarding things to do. It feels great to enjoy things.
Posted July 02, 2018
I was a bit disappointed about the decision. Not that I mind the first-person perspective; I'm a big fan of those kind of games, in fact. But considering how much of a prominent role customisation has in Cyberpunk, it's somewhat unfortunate that the times you'll be able to view your character will be restricted.

That said, after learning to what extent they are pursuing the immersion angle (like how, during the tech demo, the perspective didn't cut away when V had new cybernetics implanted), I can understand why they made this choice. But ultimately, while CD Projekt has the right to make creative decisions that they feel are best for the project, so do potential customers have the right to be disappointed that they made those decisions. Frankly, the worst part of this whole topic is how dismissive some people have been towards those who dislike this decision.

The topic of perspective aside, I do have some minor disappointments with the project that are more important to me than the perspective.

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Linko90: On the topic of Cyberpunk, I mean the world is all about augmentations...
Hilariously, this is one of them. I know, I know...the game is called Cyberpunk , so it makes sense for cybernetic augmentations to play a big part. But I still wish their use was optional. The tabletop game featured tradeoffs for using cybernetics, giving you a legitimate reason to want to remain a 'meatbag'. Not to say those won't be featured in the game, but based on the details of the gameplay demo, it appears V will start off modified at least to some extent. Not a deal breaker or anything, but still a shame.

Speaking of the character, another minor disappointment for me is the decision to effectively limit the 'class choice' to Solo, Techie and Netrunner. I get that the easiest way to sell the appeal of Cyberpunk is by being a cyberpunk. But I would have liked the option to start off as one of the other classes, even if it would have ultimately still forced you out into the streets eventually. In other words, I would have appreciated there being multiple origin stories instead of just the mercenary one.

That all said, I'm still very excited for the game and look forward to getting to see some actual gameplay footage.
Post edited July 02, 2018 by Gandos
Posted July 02, 2018
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Darvond: Do you know what else was a FPS and was amazing?

Deus Ex.
Deus Ex is not an FPS. It's perfectly viable to play through that game using a sword and not guns (although I don't remember if you can use the sword for 100% of the game...but you definitely can use it long enough so that it's not an FPS). FPS games require you to shoot guns.
Post edited July 02, 2018 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
Posted July 02, 2018
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Linko90: Oh, I get why they assumed it was third person, purely due to past CD Red games being third person. But I genuinely think this is an awful mindset to approach any level of creative media with.
I think it's fair if, for lack of info, a person assumes the game a company's making is going to be similar to their previous games. I understand why CDPR wanted to keep any information about the game under wraps for the past 5 years, but I don't think it would have been too much for them to have at least given fans a heads up that it's a FPP game.

In the long run it's no big deal, but I'm one of the many that are disappointed with this. Not to the extent where I wish any ill towards CDPR - in fact I hope the game is a stellar success for them. Unfortunately, I won't be buying or playing it. I freaking hate FPP. I've tried them in the past and cannot get used to them. Feels to me like I'm peering through a slit in a helmet, I can't get used to where my character's standing (I end up walking off ledges, bumping into things, getting into the wrong position, etc). The FPP immersion that many people refer to just isn't there for me. At all. I find it far easier to become immersed in TPP. That's life though - people like different things.

I've plenty of other games to play, but I was really excited about a well done, visually stunning, open-world cyberpunk game. So yeah, this was somewhat of a letdown. *shrug*
Posted July 02, 2018
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GR00T: I think it's fair if, for lack of info, a person assumes the game a company's making is going to be similar to their previous games.
^ False assumptions are definitely something that gamers need to grow out of as most devs have plenty of variety as time goes by. Examples:-

Bethesda - FPP (Doom, Prey, Wolfenstein), TPP (The Evil Within), both (Elder Scrolls)

Bioware - TPP (Mass Effect, Anthem), Isometric (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age)

EA - TPP (Dead Space, Star Wars Battlefront), FPP (Battlefield, Crysis, Mirror's Edge, Titanfall), Other (Bejeweled, FIFA, NFL, The Sims)

Square Enix - TPP (Tomb Raider, Hitman, etc), FPP (Quantum Conundrum, The Turing Test)

Ubisoft - TPP (Assassins Creed, The Division), FPP (Far Cry, Call of Juarez), Platformer (Rayman), Other (Just Dance, Anno, Child of Light, The Crew, Might & Magic X: Legacy, etc)

Example of how absurd the same "CDPR perspective outrage" is when imposed on other devs = "Bioware fans refuse to buy Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Dragon Age because the TPP / isometric camera perspective are all 'wrong' and they expect all Bioware games to be FPP exactly like their first game, Shattered Steel."
Post edited July 02, 2018 by AB2012
Posted July 02, 2018
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GR00T: I think it's fair if, for lack of info, a person assumes the game a company's making is going to be similar to their previous games.
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AB2012: ^ False assumptions are definitely something that gamers need to grow out of as most devs have plenty of variety as time goes by. Examples:-
While I agree with your point, your examples aren't very suitable to support it, starting with the fact that Bethesda is not the dev of DOOM, Prey of Wolfenstein, but only the publisher, and the actual devs of these titles *are* pretty well known for their previous FPP games, in fact.

There's actually both, studios that delve into different genres with each game (e.g. DONTNOD Entertainment's Remember Me, Life is Strange, Vampyr), and those you can rely on to always do the same game with some variations (like Piranha Bytes :P).

But let's be honest here, if you look at other aspects than the setting or the very specific FPP vs TPP angle, CDProjekt released three very different games even in the same series. Was the change from The Witcher to The Witcher 2 less surprising than a completely new franchise starting with FPP?
Post edited July 02, 2018 by Leroux
Posted July 02, 2018
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Leroux: Was the change from The Witcher to The Witcher 2 less surprising than a completely new franchise starting with FPP?
No, but it was a huge downgrade, so not exactly something to inspire confidence in changes :D
Posted July 02, 2018
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kohlrak: Right, and i've heard of people stealthing through most of the game, and even the parts where you're forced, people have found ways to make it work here and there. I didn't get far, myself, but I distinctly got that vibe that most of the time i'm supposed to sneak past someone just so i can get into a shack or something to fire from, as opposed to the usual all stealth or just running around in a halo/cod style bunny hop fight. This new "fortnite" thing i keep seeing seems to have a similar stance, but a more multiplayer context: your job is to kill everyone who's not on your team, but you don't do this by running in or grabbing one of the popular sniper positions.
I've definitely seen the opposite from Fortnite but that game is different. To me, it kind of reminds of Saints Row or Agents of Mayhem and gives off that vibe in a more PG setting. I will have to look into Far Cry more when I play them in order.

I really thought the focus was on stealth when I heard about the game and in the game dialogue itself where killing people is actually discouraged. That advice helps. Thank you.
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kohlrak: Right, killing is discouraged very, very early on in the game, but there comes a point where some enemies cannot be spared, while others can be, and when this happens, no one faults you for killing everyone you see. Actually, when it discourages you early on with one character, one particular character actually praises you for your ruthlessness, whereas when you play peaceful, the one character insults you for it while all the others praise you for being a good policeman. Mostly, it's cosmetic/narrative (like undertale) and doesn't matter much (unlike undertale where that choice affects endings in addition to dialogue). However, i can tell you never finished the first map. I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say that anyone whom you haven't taken out in your first raid, they end up arrested and/or tranqed before you return to base. You have to think of it like metal gear: stealth games that emphasize non-lethal due so in principle, not because of difficulty, so tranqing someone, tasing them, or something to that effect is considered non-lethal and thus doesn't count against you mechanics wise, and thus you usually get the same rewards as if you avoided detection completely.

I will say, though, that a simple solution to this is to ask yourself if it's human: if it is, try to spare it. No one really cares if you do a lethal takedown on a robot, unless it's a friendly robot. If you want, the first mission is easily the most variable in the game, and in private i'm willing to discuss the different approaches and how you can essentially use stealth to get through all of them. There's lethal stealth, non-lethal stealth, lethal run-and-gun, and non-lethal run-and-gun, which is how i handled my first playthrough (except around hookers and non-humans, because i really hated sluts when i first played deus ex). A cool thing about the non-lethal takedowns is that they behave just like lethal takedown: you aren't going to wake them up after they've been tranqed or something. As far as the engine's concerned, they're dead, but at least it's not like with the heavy weapons they're in a million little pieces.

EDIT: The series is mostly known for stealth to getting to a control panel and either learning a killphrase, finding a username and password, or hacking your way in and turning the camers, turrets, and robots against your enemies for lethal takedowns.
Interesting. That's a generous offer. I may take you up on it and pick your brains about it. So, thank you.
Posted July 02, 2018
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timppu: "Update: CD Projekt has pushed back against the description of Cyberpunk as an FPS, saying on Twitter that it's a "first-person RPG.""

So there you have it. Cyberpunk is FPRPG. Pronounced pretty much as it is written, "fppprrrghhg". Yes yes, let it roll and open your throat when you say it, but don't spit too much.
Hahaha, I laughed out loud. Thanks! :D
Posted July 02, 2018
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Linko90: I'm still a little confused by the backlash towards FPS-RPG. They're hardly a new thing and have a pretty grand track record.
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Breja: It's very simple, really. When you hear "new shooter from the creators of Doom" do you expect a first person shooter, or a third person cover based shooter? So with a new RPG from the company famous for The Witcher, everyone expected it to be more like that game they know and love. That's also what happens when you basically don't tell the audience anything at all about your game for like five years - they end desiging the game for themselves in their heads, and you end up competing with whatever they imagined. You're unlikely to measure up, and if you went in a radically different direction, there's backlash.

Basically, people feel like they're not getting what they were promised. That's not actually true, but that's what it feels like to them.
That's on them, though. CDPR isn't responsible for peoples' false assumptions. I mean, I get it if an FPS perspective makes you motion sick. That must be highly disappointing, but CDPR came out saying that they wanted to do something that wasn't The Witcher, it's not The Witcher, and any studio shouldn't automatically be shoehorned into a space that they themselves aren't shoehorning themselves into. (Like DICE. They pretty much just make Battlefield and Battlefield clones.)

Can anyone link me to any interviews where they implied it was going to be TPP, or was this 100% a case of assumption on the part of the public?
Posted July 02, 2018
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Breja: It's very simple, really. When you hear "new shooter from the creators of Doom" do you expect a first person shooter, or a third person cover based shooter? So with a new RPG from the company famous for The Witcher, everyone expected it to be more like that game they know and love. That's also what happens when you basically don't tell the audience anything at all about your game for like five years - they end desiging the game for themselves in their heads, and you end up competing with whatever they imagined. You're unlikely to measure up, and if you went in a radically different direction, there's backlash.

Basically, people feel like they're not getting what they were promised. That's not actually true, but that's what it feels like to them.
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LiquidOxygen80: That's on them, though.
I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying that acting like "I have no idea where this is all coming from" is either disingenious, or proof of understanding very little about basic psychology, the gaming/internet community and marketing. And it could have been easily avoided if not for the dead silence from CDPR for five years. I'm sorry, but anyone with half a brain could have predicted the outcome.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionCyberpunk 2077 is a FPS.....sadness....(85 posts)(85 posts)
(85 posts)