Thay are included in this list of shame. Not to mention their "GOG users are pirates" stance and the fact they are basically screwed Linux.

Avoid at all costs.

Backed!

^^ This.

backed, but where is our drm-free Cayne, GOG ?

That's your prerrogative.

When I go to my game library The Banner Saga is at 2.36.16, so that list of shame seems to be way out of date.

And yes, they were clueless about drm-free, and that's why the second game didn't show up here on release. But then it got cracked anyway and they realised how futile if was. And they are promising a GOG release for this third part, so they seem to have learnt from their mistakes.

That's the thing. Some people learn and evolve. And sometimes things change.
By your same misguided logic, you'd never buy any AAA game here. As they are full of drm on release, and can't live without drm for years most of the time. And yet, somehow, I think that won't be the case.

That one is tempting, but their track record on Linux is non-existent. STASIS is supposedly still coming, and the commitment on the Kickstarter page for this game is "We'll try".

I appreciate their honesty though. Better a "We'll try" now, than failing to meet a "We'll do it" in the future.

Edit: Alright, their Linux track record isn't non-existent. Cayne is available on Linux. I'm still not going to back it because of the lack of commitment to a Linux version.

Cayne is available for Linux on Steam (and should be soon(tm) available on GOG)

Sorry, it is hard to believe. Words are cheap. The same guys were promising Linux version during their first kickstarter campaign. Let's not speak about it. They are clearly lost any credit in my eyes.

And exactly where did that conclusion come from? I bought Obsidian's "Tyranny" on Day-1 (literally). Because some developers deliver and some are only good for spitting "DRM-free == pirates" BS.

And in case you do not consider "Tyranny" (created by damedev-veterans and published by "Paradox" -- full fledged publisher) an AAA, then show me "true AAA" here. And yes, Linux version is mandatory, no Windows/Mac titles please.

Exactly this! I'll probably aqcuire the game, "however this may not be a day one purchase".

At this rate Pixel Princess Blitz still looks like the best option to sink my money into Kickstarter.

Words? As far as I know, the second part is here and they are up to date with updates. Exactly what the list of shame and you complained about. That's not just words, those are facts. Taken that into account I'm led to believe they will have a GOG drm-free release.

If the fact they don't provide a linux version is a main factor to you, that's ok, but a different thing altogether. And I'm afraid that happens with a lot more developers in this store

The Obsidian/Paradox paradox is funny. Even though I don't really consider them AAA, but that's a different matter. Paradox, for starters, apart from both obsidian games, only have old games drm-free. So I would think that, even if they didn't explicitly said the drm-free==pirates bullshit, they sure seem to live by it with most of their valuable properties. Which, you know, are not drm-free anywhere. And that's without getting into their dlc business model, making their games basically a service.

And Obsidian, well, they ARE on that list of shame you posted before (because of the lack of upgrades between the versions. Here. They do have those on Steam). And that without taking into account the game itself and the major part that MCA took in the kickstarter campaing as the big figure behind the game only to be afterwards shunned in favour of the balanced worlds of sawyer, and most of his ideas discarded for money saving.

But I was mostly thinking about bethesda and the likes. You have The Banner Saga, a game that is now up to date and on this store almost on release, tarnished for live for being late with their updates in this store. And then you have stuff like Morrowind (or Oblivion or FO3), lauded and appreciated for showing up 5 years too late, while still keeping their "latest" games drmd and being publically pro drm. They should cope that list on shame, just on the fact of the tardiness of few games they have here alone.

That's the double standard I'm talking about.

Actually, all Paradox developed titles are DRM free .... so long as you don't consider the Steam client DRM. None of Paradox's developed titles have any external DRM (Securom et el) or use Steams CEG DRM. According to Paradox, this makes all of their games DRM Free.

There is a never ending argument regarding whether or not the Steam client is DRM or not.

Fully agree with you on the double standard though. Stoic is derided for making pro-drm comments, and then bringing the game here shortly after, while Bethesda is praised for bringing only old games here.

As far as I know, they did not update their Kickstarter backer DRM-free package for ages. That's right, they refused to supply kickstarter backers with GOG keys and just uploaded some unmaintained build on their site. That's the kind of service one should expect from this developer.

Exactly! So, we have lots of facts showing their previous behaviour and mindset. And now they say "We are making things right this time. Promise!" Yeah, sure...

Nothing funny really. You know, no publisher used GOG before 2008, right? :-)

And, as a matters of fact: 1) Paradox is a publisher; 2) It published Obsidian's game on Steam and GOG at the same time (and no "almost" prefix); 3) Said game was not croudfunded, so Paradox/Obsidian did not have any obligations to do so; 3) They update GOG version almost immediately (I have checked, version 1.0.4.0048 appeared 23.01.2017 and GOG already has it).

That's about the ability to "upgrade" from common edition to the "premium" one (just an extra bunch of "bonus" items). That's not the same as the lack of updates.

I couldn't care less about ZeniMax/Bethesda. Have exactly one of "their" products ("Fallout 2") and that was in 2006, before "Fallout" became "theirs". But you are right, there is a ton more of this type of developers/publishers. And "Stoic Studio" with their publisher "Versus Evil" are clearly aiming at being part of that crowd.

You must be seeing things as I never "lauded and appreciated" or "praised" anything ZeniMax/Bethesda related.

So you are salty about some misdeeds Stoic did to you. I can understand that. We all have salty stories about some kickstarter or another. For example, Pillars of Eternity has a "special" kickstarter edition that doesn't show on the page, and they didn't give us keys to the champion edition to many of us who had the base everything pledge in kickstarter plus the addons that covered everything else at champion edition level.

It is unfortunate but The Banner Saga didn't release here at the same time as on Steam. In fact, it got here more than 20 days later, and by then they have probably delivered their keys already. That happens a lot with GOG, and I usually wait without redeeming any kickstarter key outside GOG just so in case it gets here, I have more grounds to ask for one.
They didn't explicitely promised a GOG key, though.

No, we don't have many facts. The first to parts of the game are drm-free on GOG and are up to date. Apparently the drm-free version on their site is not up to date, according to you. And that is pretty wrong. And they didn't provide GOG keys they never promised for a game released here 20+ days later, which isn't ideal, but normal. But that doesn't affect their game on GOG which is up to date.

And they are not saying they are making things right. They are promising a GOG release and to provide GOG keys. There's no reason to doubt they will, as there are no problems with their game on GOG.

Paradox is Obsidian's current publisher. And even though they put Tyranny here, they didn't put here most of their games. What I'm doing here is comparing your stance against some people that said drm-free helped piracy and then put their game here with paradox, that only put Tyranny here but not the last games of their most profitable IPs.

So?
By the tone of it, you don't care about bonus items, soundtracks, books and whatnot. Many people might.
The only real fact is that The Banner Saga IS up to date, while we still don't have upgrade options for Pillars of Eternity. And they are on Steam.

Or WAS part of that crowd. As both Banner Saga 1 & 2 are here, and so will the end of the trilogy. At the end of the day, you care a lot more about a random misguided comment that the fact that... well, their games are here and so will be the next one. I think that says more about drm-free than what they said when they didn't intend to release part 2 on GOG.

At the end of the day, it's your choice.. I was mostly pissed about your "avoid at all cost" sentence directed at everyone else. If you don't give a chance to publishers/developers that corrected their ways and are good by GOG now, then should would they even try?

That wasn't directed at you. It was a comment about the forum community in general.

But have Stoic really "corrected their ways"?

For me Stoic is an "avoid at all costs" on Kickstarter:

Banner Saga 1 campaign promised DRM free. Update #6 to the campaign also promised Linux support. The Linux port came over a year after the initial release, and was Steam-only. To date, 3 years later, there has still never been a DRM-free release on Linux.

Banner Saga 2 Campaign promised DRM free. Just prior to release, the dev made several disparaging and insulting comments about DRM-free users just being pirates. Only after a shitstorm regarding the campaign promises was the game released at GOG.

Two campaigns, two fiascos. Avoid at all costs.