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General discussionCould Players Post their Fallout 4 Thoughts here?(43 posts)(43 posts)
(43 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 10, 2015
I don't own it, and as of now, have zero plans on purchasing it because I don't like the fact that they did away with skills (which, you know, makes an RPG an RPG). Huh, someone once mentioned that since they did away with skills and went with perks exlusively, it was "Skyrim with guns." Ahmm, I don't know whether I've got a special edition of Skyrim or what's going on, but my version of Skyrim has, uhmm, SKILLS. That go from 1 to 100 (or really 15 to 100). It has skills PLUS perks. As I understand it, F4 has ONLY perks. And attributes. So, no matter how you slice it, F4 is less of an RPG than F3 (which is arguably less of an RPG than F2 and F1) so the trend is obvious. The Fallout series is officially moving from RPG to FPS. (I say no matter how you argue it because F3 had ATTRIBUTES, SKILLS, PERKS, and TRAITS. As far as I know, F4 has ATTRIBUTES, PERKS, and I'm guessing???? TRAITS. So, that's LESS RPGness no matter how one argues it)

All that said, because I liked the series so much so far, I may change my mind at some point (though I can guarantee it won't be anytime soon as I never buy a Bethesda game anywhere near release due to the games not being finished anyway) so I was wondering if those that have played it would mind sharing their thoughts on the game. Thanks for any info.

(My nephew has finished the game and I've asked for him to email me a summary of his thoughts, but so far.... no email. Thought I'd ask here. Hope my opinions didn't offend anyone, wasn't my intention.)
Post edited December 10, 2015 by OldFatGuy
Posted December 10, 2015
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OldFatGuy:
OFG, check out This Thread if you haven't already seen it. Last handful of pages has some good comments from people that have played/are playing it.
Post edited December 10, 2015 by GR00T
Posted December 10, 2015
I don't own the game myself but have watched many hours of gameplay videos, and as I understand it, they didn't really remove the skills of the previous Fallout games, but rather merged skills and perks ( and the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system ) into a single new character development system. It seems to work rather well, once you get used to the idea. Each time your character levels up, you get to decide whether to pick one perk/skill upgrade, or you can invest the skill point into one of your base attributes instead ( which is a requirement for some of the higher level perks ).

It may look simpler on the surface, but for the most you're still left with the same difficult choices about how you want to develop your character. It seems they also did some re-balancing with the base stats, to make sure that all of them are equally important. Overall it looks like a really fun and rewarding system, as long as you go into the game with an open mind, and don't instantly trash it just because it's not exactly like the older games.
Post edited December 10, 2015 by CharlesGrey
Posted December 12, 2015
Well, I heard from my nephew. I think it's safe to say he liked it...
Hey uncle Joey,


I can't say that I've played a game that is quite as good as Fallout 4. That being said, with all the time I've put into Skrim, Fallout 3, and of course Borderlands 2, that is saying a whole lot.

The character progression system works a lot better than I expected without the skill system. The perks take away from the general feeling of putting a few points into a skill every level. The perks have level requirements just like the other games, but you also have different levels of that one perk. Instead of pumping your sneak up a few points when you level up in the other Fallout games, there will be (I think) 5 levels of the sneak perk, increasing your sneak every time. And it's like that with all the perks, so it still has sort of the same skill thing going on, just in more of a visualized way.


The glitches haven't been noticeable at all. The only real "glitches I've run into are some dead bodies having some clipping issues with the floor and making annoying sounds, but that is small.



Now, the visual aspect and performance. The game looks amazing, especially for a Bethesda game. The performance is good, respective to the hardware you have> I do well on high on my 980m, and I play at high because I don't want to dip below 60 fps. But from how I know you, you don't seem like you care about graphics, same as me. I'd play the game if it looked like Ocarina Of Time, or Redguard.


THE STORY IS AMAZING, DON'T LOOK ON THE INTERNET FOR REVIEWS BECAUSE SPOILERS ARE EVERYWHERE. The main story was spoiled for me a couple days before the game's release, but thankfully only part of it because the amount of options you have in the game are incredible. And the story is LONG. I was 24 hours into gameplay when I 'finished' the story, and obviously as you know from previous Beth games, story is literally just scraping the surface. There is just so many things to do, so many things to customize. In Skyrim, we saw a really immersive building system with the house. Take that freedom and multiply it by, say, I don't know... 1000x?


The combat system no longer sucks anymore like FO3 and New Vegas did, it feels so so smooth. The weapon customization is so incredible, there is almost an infinite amount of options. You have a shitty pistol? Let me throw a stock on it and put a scope on it. You can transform whatever gun to be whatever you want (granted you have the materials which are realistically hard to find).


All in all, I would give the game a 9.999/10 The .001 comes from a part of the story being spoiled for me, but if that hadn't been the case, it'd be a 10. Take this review as you will, and if you need me to expand on anything else, just let me know. :)
Posted December 12, 2015
I like this topic for reference... I also do not own it but looking forward to it after I played the 3 and New Vegas, someday..
Posted December 12, 2015
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OldFatGuy: Well, I heard from my nephew. I think it's safe to say he liked it...

(snip)
I can't say that I've played a game that is quite as good as Fallout 4. That being said, with all the time I've put into Skrim, Fallout 3, and of course Borderlands 2, that is saying a whole lot.

The character progression system works a lot better than I expected without the skill system. The perks take away from the general feeling of putting a few points into a skill every level. The perks have level requirements just like the other games, but you also have different levels of that one perk. Instead of pumping your sneak up a few points when you level up in the other Fallout games, there will be (I think) 5 levels of the sneak perk, increasing your sneak every time. And it's like that with all the perks, so it still has sort of the same skill thing going on, just in more of a visualized way.
(snip)
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OldFatGuy:
See Fallout 1 and 2 how skills and perks should work.
Fallout 3 is broken in this matter, FNV had it more-less fixed.

In F1-2:

SPECIAL Attributes are born abilities.
Like look better, run longer, be stronger, be smarter, be more appealing.
These powered base character stats, like health, damage taken etc.
They unlocked some of perks, amount of skills available at start and amount of skills given on each level up.

Skills are the efficiency at some task.
The more you do something, the more efficient you become.
The only unlogical thing here was that they increased by points - not by doing task itself. TL;DR you could kill a bandwagon of bandits and become better at speech.

Traits are special game modificators. They increased some ability, whilst decreasing another. Fully optional.
Like strong hands - increase bigger punch power, but loose in chance to critically hit (finesse).
Gifted trait for example, gave +1 to all SPECIAL attributes but gave penalty to amount of points available to put in skill on each level up.

Finally, Perks are special ability of positive nature.
These which can be optionally picked each N levels (typically 3 (unless affected by trait).
Some of perks simply gave extra % to skill. Some gave + to attributes but on special condition.

Fallout 4 is completely different thing.

Its can be that F4 system may be much better than F3, BUT
its not correct to claim that classic F1-2 SPECIAL system was worse than F4, because F3 implementation was broken.

----
I think system used in Jagged Alliance 2 was better than Fallout.
The funny moments with Fallout system, is that some attributes can't really be linked to raw value.
For example, take 20 year old male and 3 year old baby.
Both have STR 10. In Fallout 1-2 system, both can pick heavy crates or wear power armor.

In JA2 system Attribute=Skill and one increases it by doing the task.
Punching cows or enemies - agility increase.
Repairing stuff - dexterity increase.
Overweight carrying - strength increase.
and so on.
Post edited December 12, 2015 by Lin545
Posted December 12, 2015
Fallout 4 is pretty good. The new level system works well but still feels toned down a little from the older system. I have a couple problems with this game though.

Something that has really been bugging me is the weapon variety. Yea you can change weapons greatly with the expanded crafting and modding but there are just so few weapons to begin with. an example can be seen with pistols in fallout 4 there is the 10 mm, .44, pipe, Laser, and Plasma. (and pistols may have the most options in FA4) in fallout new vegas there is the 9mm, 10mm, 12.7mm, .357, .556, Laser, Plasma, Police pistol, Ranger Pistol, .44 and maybe some others. these also felt different from each other, in other words each had there own niche. The weapons in fallout 4 just end up feeling largely the same to each other. To make this worse is the unique weapon system in fallout 4 most unique weapons look and feel no different to there counterparts and most giving passive damage increases it other minor effects. These weapons are also everywhere making them feel less unique and more like minor upgrades. as a side problem I have with guns is the general price of weapons. I can sell a fat man for about 250 caps but it will cost but 2.5 grand just to buy 25 adhesive which seems kind of broken.

Im also somewhat bothered by the lack of polish in the settlement system. Its possible to make some decent looking buildings but if your in a hilly area you can just forget it. everything ends up partially floating and there is little you can do to stop it. another minor problem with the system I have is the decorations. they have lots of random pictures of kittens and light houses but what I really want to decorate my garage with is nuka cola posters and vault tech fliers which are completely lacking from the decorations tab.

Even with these complaints fallout 4 is a great game. I almost have 4 days in it at this point literally 96 hours not just over the span of 4 days and have found most of the locations on the map. Boston's a great place to explore. all the exploration and scavenging is still there and is possibly even more important now as the game is actually harder then the others (3 and NV) at least early on.
Posted December 12, 2015
My summery: Not Interested...
Posted December 12, 2015
Let me say.....A great downgrade from the previous titles in the Fallout series. They downgraded the dialogue depth, kept the same engine as Skyrim and a lot of the same sounds and animations. Took away skills completely (biggest gripe for me besides the dialogue thing). Now anyone can do any skill regardless of S.P.E.C.I.A.L.'s picked. Max anything out? sure. Be lazy and be rewarded nonetheless, more like.

They also Added simplistic mechanics that appeal to mainstream gamers like house building and attachment attaching for weapons. No more creating you own unique character that is different from your last 30 characters you made. It's more an "FPS game" then "RPG game". Saddened me actually. I pre-ordered it and only played it 20 hours before the various flaws surfaced and boreded me. It wasn't as intriguing as New Vegas was too me.

Don't get me wrong, still a good game, but NOT a good Fallout game.
Post edited December 12, 2015 by BruceLeeForever
Posted December 12, 2015
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OldFatGuy: So, that's LESS RPGness no matter how one argues it)
All right. Challenge accepted.

Fallout 4 still has all the skills you remember from previous Fallout games, but they're no longer directly editable by the player. In fact, your character skills are now, more than ever, organically grown from the broad guidance you give your character on creation and level-up, and the specific choices you make while playing. This in fact makes the role you play (the RPGness) even more important in the game, since you can't roll up a character statted one way and then just assign skills as you please.

For example, despite the comments above - and elsewhere - that any character can do anything, no matter their stats, that's utterly false. Good luck picking a Master level lock if you don't have Master lockpicking. Good luck building a store in a settlement if you don't have Local Leader as well as a high enough Charisma.

The argument that taking away skills reduces the RPG-ness of the game doesn't hold up to scrutiny. In previous Fallout games, where skills were king, high-INT builds were inherently advantageous. A low INT wasn't a roleplay choice, it was a straight-up handicap. With per-level perk points independent of INT, now all possible builds get the same options per level, making more character types viable. This increases the RPGness of the game, as you are no longer penalized for playing a suboptimal character.

Dialog is still built in to the game; you still decide what factions to join, how to help them, how to build your character and build your base of power. The game world still evolves based on the choices you make. Cries that end-game homogenization makes your choices unimportant are from people who clearly never played to end-game - even with a lot of exploration and base-building, getting to level 50 will take a long time, and 50 perk points aren't nearly enough to homogenize all builds. A long-range stealth sniper takes about 45 points to optimize; a melee juggernaut around 40; a pacifist build at least 35. Unless you grind endlessly, you'll only barely have enough game to flesh out your character and pick a few extras on the side.

If an RPG is a game that heavily weights character stats over player skills, then Fallout 4 is more of an RPG than Fallout 3 was, but less than Fallout 1 or 2. If an RPG is a game where you play a character the way you want to, Fallout 4 is still more of an RPG than Fallout 3, but is arguably as much an RPG as the original Fallouts.

EDIT: typos
Post edited December 12, 2015 by OneFiercePuppy
Posted December 12, 2015
And what about removed requirements for equipping weapons? You no longer need strength to use a shotgun. Special is screwed and transformed into a much more simplistic system.
Posted December 12, 2015
I heard there is no level cap.
Posted December 12, 2015
there is no level cap at all. so you can do everything if you put the time into it.
Posted December 12, 2015
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BruceLeeForever: Let me say.....A great downgrade from the previous titles in the Fallout series. They downgraded the dialogue depth, kept the same engine as Skyrim and a lot of the same sounds and animations. Took away skills completely (biggest gripe for me besides the dialogue thing). Now anyone can do any skill regardless of S.P.E.C.I.A.L.'s picked. Max anything out? sure. Be lazy and be rewarded nonetheless, more like.

They also Added simplistic mechanics that appeal to mainstream gamers like house building and attachment attaching for weapons. No more creating you own unique character that is different from your last 30 characters you made. It's more an "FPS game" then "RPG game". Saddened me actually. I pre-ordered it and only played it 20 hours before the various flaws surfaced and boreded me. It wasn't as intriguing as New Vegas was too me.

Don't get me wrong, still a good game, but NOT a good Fallout game.
I agree with BruceLeeForever's review. I'm 100 hours in and Fallout 4 has been mostly a VATS shooter with almost no RPG. Yes, you can go where you want and do what you want, but there have been few choices that rely on perks, and those few times have always relied on a high charisma stats. Most of the time, it'll only get you the info you need now instead of scrounging for the answer a little longer.

Lockpicking and Hacking Terminals only serve to open caches with extra ammo and loot and little else.

I actually enjoy the weapon and armor crafting as it gives you the option of specializing in stealth, mitigating specific damage like radiation or energy weapons, or just maximizing bullet damage at the expense of energy and rad protection. The weapons can be tweaked to be auto fire at the expense of damage, or single shot with more damage but it's clear some weapons are better than others regardless of how much crafting you do.

I don't like dealing with annoying settlers and building shit for them, mostly because you have to put something like 7/10 points into Charisma just to be able to build the stuff they want and set up supply lines between different areas.

Surprisingly, it has been the LEAST buggy Bethesda game I have ever played. The only problem is I need a high FOV because it's set to low console crap as always. If I attempt to use any console command, the FOV reverts and there is no way to change it back other than shutting down and restarting. I don't cheat but it would be nice to use on occasion if I get stuck or my companion gets lost somewhere.

My biggest problem with the game is it looks so damn ugly compared to a masterpiece like The Witcher 3. They're still using the same ancient Gamebryo/Creation engine and it takes longer than ever to load every building you want to enter and exit. CDPR showed Bethesda how open world is done and Bethesda needs to open their pocketbook and invest in a 21st century engine.

It's just too similar to Fallout 3 in all of the bad ways and none of the good ways. After 100 hours there was only one level that gave me a "Holy shit, that was awesome" feeling. I'm not done with the game yet, but TBH I'm not feeling the urge to continue to the end.
Posted December 12, 2015
Yes,I've got it and compared to F3 and NV it's a long way from them.I think F3,NV combined with TTW leaves it for dead.They had a good basis for the game in F3 and NV,then stuffed it up by changing the way you played to (personally) I think a massive disappointment.Only good idea in the whole game is the jetpack,Hell you can't even see the baddies until your on top of them and they just plain slaughter you (sneak is not viable at the moment until modders sort this out).
F3 8/10
NV 8/10
F3,NV AND TTW 10/10
F4 6/10.
This game will need a massive amount of mods to improve it.
Post edited December 12, 2015 by Tauto
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionCould Players Post their Fallout 4 Thoughts here?(43 posts)(43 posts)
(43 posts)