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General discussionCould "deepfake" voices be used in games?(15 posts)(15 posts)
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Posted July 10, 2019
So I'm an old guy, a bit slow with tech, but I have some logic and an imagination.

I know that using media stars to do voices in games makes them expensive, and of course ads to the space required.

Then it occurred to me that instead of hiring (for example) Patrick Stewart to fully voice a main character, the tech exists now to "clone" his voice pattern / signal, and manipulate it to suit the in game script. No need for his time, therefore no hiring fee.

Ok, so there may be a copyright fee for using his voice, but this would be smaller than the costs of hiring him (or any other star) also without the travel and accommodation costs.

Perhaps there is also a way to reduce the storage required, making downloads faster and less space required. Maybe something to consider when using the upcoming "play by streaming".

Just an idea. Oh, and if any software developer wants to use this, check with my agent first!
Posted July 10, 2019
I believe there are laws that prevent this from happening. (referred to as personality rights). So a person could seek damages if they feel someone is attempting to use there person or emulate there person for profit.

There are sections of the Screen Actors Guild contracts that cover things like this.
Posted July 10, 2019
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bonzer: So I'm an old guy, a bit slow with tech, but I have some logic and an imagination.

I know that using media stars to do voices in games makes them expensive, and of course ads to the space required.

Then it occurred to me that instead of hiring (for example) Patrick Stewart to fully voice a main character, the tech exists now to "clone" his voice pattern / signal, and manipulate it to suit the in game script. No need for his time, therefore no hiring fee.

Ok, so there may be a copyright fee for using his voice, but this would be smaller than the costs of hiring him (or any other star) also without the travel and accommodation costs.

Perhaps there is also a way to reduce the storage required, making downloads faster and less space required. Maybe something to consider when using the upcoming "play by streaming".

Just an idea. Oh, and if any software developer wants to use this, check with my agent first!
Some devs allow VAs to do voices at home/etc and send the files to them, so sometimes travel/lodging expenses aren't needed. Also(to me) it's nicer to have the actual VA do the work...even if the end result is indistinguishable between a real person and a program.
Posted July 10, 2019
There might be a loophole in the laws when it comes to soundalikes. I remember the trailer for Dead Island 2. At the very end you clearly hear(but don't see) Jack Black and Aaron Paul talking. Even Jack Black, commented about how amazing the trailer was, but ended up surprised to hear his voice. After he did some investigating, he found out that the developers/publishers hired the voice actor that imitated his voice for the Kung Fu Panda animated TV show.

I don't know if there's any more to the story than that.
Post edited July 10, 2019 by MadalinStroe
Posted July 10, 2019
Yes, I bet fake voices will be used and maybe one day even indie devs can just use off-the shelf tools to generate spoken dialogue from text. This could also open up avenues for properly voiced procedurally generated random quests and such. Or randomized door codes in games like Deus Ex.
Posted July 10, 2019
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bonzer: So I'm an old guy, a bit slow with tech, but I have some logic and an imagination.

I know that using media stars to do voices in games makes them expensive, and of course ads to the space required.

Then it occurred to me that instead of hiring (for example) Patrick Stewart to fully voice a main character, the tech exists now to "clone" his voice pattern / signal, and manipulate it to suit the in game script. No need for his time, therefore no hiring fee.

Ok, so there may be a copyright fee for using his voice, but this would be smaller than the costs of hiring him (or any other star) also without the travel and accommodation costs.

Perhaps there is also a way to reduce the storage required, making downloads faster and less space required. Maybe something to consider when using the upcoming "play by streaming".

Just an idea. Oh, and if any software developer wants to use this, check with my agent first!
Imho this is the future.

Imagine game, size of skyrim where writers focus only on quests, dialogs etc and AI voice acts:
- everything is voice acted
- game size to download is next to nothing (audio files are masive)

Not that it is good for voice actors but they still may be needed as ai trainers
Posted July 10, 2019
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gmx: - game size to download is next to nothing (audio files are masive)
Voice files can be pretty small and I don't think game developers care how big their assets are. In fact, I suspect some of them make them intentionally bloated just to look big and impress people who think it's cool to have a game that requires 300 gigabytes.

It's the damn graphics (and video, if they have any..) that tend to require space.
Post edited July 10, 2019 by clarry
Posted July 10, 2019
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bonzer: ...
Yeah this has been done already. There is this guy Kalle Taivainen who can sing exactly like Vesa-Matti Loiri. An example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG1sOVOJoTg

So if there is some game who wants a deep voice of the well-known Finnish actor/singer Vesa-Matti Loiri (known especially for his role in the "Uuno Turhapuro"-movies), they should hire Kalle Taivainen. Cheaper that way.
Posted July 10, 2019
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gmx: - game size to download is next to nothing (audio files are masive)
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clarry: Voice files can be pretty small and I don't think game developers care how big their assets are. In fact, I suspect some of them make them intentionally bloated just to look big and impress people who think it's cool to have a game that requires 300 gigabytes.

It's the damn graphics (and video, if they have any..) that tend to require space.
Yes, low quality audio can be small but even if we assume it is small - it will quickly add up with game scope. Video files - into and outro? I don't remember many games that don't use game engine for cutscenes.

I don't think people think about size as quality (now, long ago we were impressed if game came out on 4cd) - for more people size is the problem - internet speed and data caps.
Posted July 10, 2019
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gmx: Yes, low quality audio can be small but even if we assume it is small - it will quickly add up with game scope.
You can have an hour of speech at great quality in less than 30 megabytes.

By contrast, a single 4k*4k texture has over 16 million pixels and even with compression, one that has normals will take up much more space than the audio.

I have a hard time imagining a game where the storage requirements for graphics wouldn't scale more than the requirements for audio. Unless you seriously tip the balance in favor of dialogue over gameplay.. that'd be like a visual novel. Maybe without the visuals.

EDIT:

It takes just 70 hours and 40 minutes to read the Bible through "at pulpit rate," and aloud!
How many bibles' worth of story would the game's novelists have to come up with and write down before the speech files become comparable to the dozens of gigabytes of graphics? You do the math..
Post edited July 10, 2019 by clarry
Posted July 10, 2019
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gmx: Yes, low quality audio can be small but even if we assume it is small - it will quickly add up with game scope.
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clarry: You can have an hour of speech at great quality in less than 30 megabytes.

By contrast, a single 4k*4k texture has over 16 million pixels and even with compression, one that has normals will take up much more space than the audio.

I have a hard time imagining a game where the storage requirements for graphics wouldn't scale more than the requirements for audio. Unless you seriously tip the balance in favor of dialogue over gameplay.. that'd be like a visual novel. Maybe without the visuals.

EDIT:

It takes just 70 hours and 40 minutes to read the Bible through "at pulpit rate," and aloud!
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clarry: How many bibles' worth of story would the game's novelists have to come up with and write down before the speech files become comparable to the dozens of gigabytes of graphics? You do the math..
we can argue for hours - subject is interesting, wonder if there is real case study - dissected witcher 3 for example to compare proportions of audio vs game size. One famous example is titanfall where game was 10GB and audio was 35
Posted July 10, 2019
Since OP mentioned Patrick Stewart, Star Trek comes to my mind immediately.
Let’s said a game studio has a great idea on a Star Trek TOS 60th Anniversary game and want it voiced. Since Dr. McCoy, Mr. Spock and Scotty and among other is not around anymore, surely “Damn it, man, I’m a doctor, not a …” cannot be heard and record once again. In this case this kind of technology can make their speaking “come to live” again.
Surely it comes with personality rights / copy rights problem. If somehow the relatives, copyright owner come up with an agreement, I think it is a good idea to utilize this technology.
Posted July 10, 2019
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gmx: we can argue for hours - subject is interesting, wonder if there is real case study - dissected witcher 3 for example to compare proportions of audio vs game size. One famous example is titanfall where game was 10GB and audio was 35
Doesn't take a case study, just some basic math. Using a modern codec, 64 kbit/sec is enough for decent quality stereo music. It's more than enough for high quality mono speech.

Titanfall is an infamous example because they wasted a lot of space using uncompressed audio. That's just stupid. If we wanted to go down that route, well, it's not too hard to bloat the size of graphics assets by an order of magnitude.
Post edited July 10, 2019 by clarry
Posted July 10, 2019
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clarry: Yes, I bet fake voices will be used and maybe one day even indie devs can just use off-the shelf tools to generate spoken dialogue from text. This could also open up avenues for properly voiced procedurally generated random quests and such. Or randomized door codes in games like Deus Ex.
That last bit reminds me of the voice activated locks from the game Lifeline(voice activated game) on PS2.
Posted July 11, 2019
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wongheiming: Since OP mentioned Patrick Stewart, Star Trek comes to my mind immediately.
Let’s said a game studio has a great idea on a Star Trek TOS 60th Anniversary game and want it voiced. Since Dr. McCoy, Mr. Spock and Scotty and among other is not around anymore, surely “Damn it, man, I’m a doctor, not a …” cannot be heard and record once again. In this case this kind of technology can make their speaking “come to live” again.
Surely it comes with personality rights / copy rights problem. If somehow the relatives, copyright owner come up with an agreement, I think it is a good idea to utilize this technology.
Turns out they already do this. Peter Cushing had a role in Star Wars Rogue One as Grand Moff Tarkin.

Rather remarkable considering he had been dead for 22 years.

Digital enhancement works wonders these days...
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General discussionCould "deepfake" voices be used in games?(15 posts)(15 posts)
(15 posts)