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l0rdtr3k: Miura puts rape in there to show how crappy Midland is a place to live not for fanservice(thankfully) and,unfortunetely,rape was really common on the Middle Ages.
And the series is a pretty good read with interesting characters(with great motivations) and such a beautiful and detailed art.
I often find that rape is used as a lazy approach to achieving that. MAny great stories establish that without needing rape and things. But I guess most people don't mind, I have been quite close to it so it tends to effect me a little more.

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moonshineshadow: That is understandable. I just want to hear your opinion (and of course Toms opinion too). Did you feel the rape was included to be entertaining or to make the battles and wars and everything more realistic?
To be honest, I did not read that much of it. It just never clicked with me, and it was quite some time ago that I can't even fully remember, I just remember that I did not like it. I am not saying the novels are bad (I know I joke sometimes, like I do with Harry Potter, but I am not trying to be genuinely insulting to people who do like the books). But knowing about all the rape would make it a big no for me. Most violence against women stuff gets to me now after working where I did and seeing what I did. I can't even really watch films with that kind of stuff in as it gets me annoyed that people do that. I know the books and movies and television shows are fictional, but I know it goes on for real, and that tends to get to me. And I am rambling, sorry about that. But as I said to the little blob above, I often feel they use rape as a cheap and easy way out, rather than thinking of a more tasteful way to tell a story. I can see how it can be a vital plot elements, but generally it is not really used like that.

*big sorry hug for calling it Game of Thrones*
Post edited October 12, 2015 by ddickinson
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ddickinson: I had a nice talk with ELT before about how good it would be to have a Call of Duty (1-2)/Medal of Honour type game where you play as the Axis forces against the allies. It would give so many new angles and possibilities. You could start as the Germans invading Europe, then during their fighting retreat back to Berlin. You could do the Normandy landings from the bunkers, trying to defend them then falling back, things like that. True it would remove usual American focused gameplay and often arrogance, but it would be a fun game, with quite a nice take on things. But I guess it would not happen, especially not from US developers who would probably get a lot of bother highlighting the enemy and killing US soldiers and things. But it would be interesting to play a game where you know that in the end you will lose, yet you keep on fighting.

But ELT is German, not American. Who is the American version of ELT? :-)
It really does sound like a cool idea. I've only played mods where you play as a German soldier. There was one mod for Call of Duty that was being developed, and it had a couple of playable levels (Normandy beach defense, and I think defending a town) but it was never finished. A shame, because it was good quality, with full voice acting.

How could it be an American's fault? :-) Much easier to blame someone else, like Canada... ;-)

*bonus hug, since Moon won't hug you*
Post edited October 12, 2015 by AgentBirdnest
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AgentBirdnest: It really does sound like a cool idea. I've only played mods where you play as a German soldier. There was one mod for Call of Duty that was being developed, and it had a couple of playable levels (Normandy beach defense, and I think defending a town) but it was never finished. A shame, because it was good quality, with full voice acting.

How could it be an American's fault? :-) Much easier to blame someone else, like Canada... ;-)

*bonus hug, since Moon won't hug you*
I like the idea of a new angle on things, and it is not like every German soldier was an evil Nazi. Many were doing what they thought was best for Germany, many were fighting for their country. There were brave scenes and battles fought by the Axis just as there were the Allies, so there would be more than enough for a good game, but it would be very unlike Americans to do anything that puts America as the baddies, especially as they would need the game to sell to the general crowd in order to make a profit.

Does Canada also call it Jelly, even the British part?

Yay! I got a hug.

*big super hug*
Good afternoon, GOG people... I hope your day is less boring than mine so far... Just out of an epic working meeting... +__+
**Big bored hug**
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ddickinson: I often find that rape is used as a lazy approach to achieving that. MAny great stories establish that without needing rape and things. But I guess most people don't mind, I have been quite close to it so it tends to effect me a little more.

To be honest, I did not read that much of it. It just never clicked with me, and it was quite some time ago that I can't even fully remember, I just remember that I did not like it. I am not saying the novels are bad (I know I joke sometimes, like I do with Harry Potter, but I am not trying to be genuinely insulting to people who do like the books). But knowing about all the rape would make it a big no for me. Most violence against women stuff gets to me now after working where I did and seeing what I did. I can't even really watch films with that kind of stuff in as it gets me annoyed that people do that. I know the books and movies and television shows are fictional, but I know it goes on for real, and that tends to get to me. And I am rambling, sorry about that. But as I said to the little blob above, I often feel they use rape as a cheap and easy way out, rather than thinking of a more tasteful way to tell a story. I can see how it can be a vital plot elements, but generally it is not really used like that.
Unlike most otakus(who for some reason thinks that rape is sexy and watch hentai that feature it),I really don't like it. But in the context of the story(middle ages) I can understand since it was,unfortunetely,common. But Miura has other things on showing how crapsack the world of Berserk is.
Like,morally questionable characters(Guts is an extreme social darwinist),there's always fighting,demons and other creatures everywhere,violence(which Miura puts in lots of detail on the gore),poverty,squallor,politicians plotting against each other,the Kushan Empire invasion right after a 100 year war between Midland and the Tudor(not related) Empire,the King gone off the deep end,the Idea of Evil and the Godhand...
The only thing truly heroic on the story is the Skull Knight.
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Post edited October 12, 2015 by l0rdtr3k
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Empress_Owl: Good afternoon, GOG people... I hope your day is less boring than mine so far... Just out of an epic working meeting... +__+
**Big bored hug**
*big super epic mega hug for the lovely Owl*

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l0rdtr3k: Unlike most otakus(who for some reason thinks that rape is sexy and watch hentai that feature it),I really don't like it. But in the context of the story(middle ages) I can understand since it was,unfortunetely,common. But Miura has other things on showing how crapsack the world of Berserk is.
Like,morally questionable characters(Guts is an extreme social darwinist),there's always fighting,demons and other creatures everywhere,violence(which Miura puts in lots of detail on the gore),poverty,squallor,politicians plotting against each other,the Kushan Empire invasion right after a 100 year war between Midland and the Tudor(not related) Empire,the King gone off the deep end,the Idea of Evil and the Godhand...
The only thing truly heroic on the story is the Skull Knight.
I know that kind of thing happened during those ages, and I have no problem in many ways with stories having that kind of stuff in, I just can't really stand it, but that is for personal reasons, not because I think it is technically bad.
Post edited October 12, 2015 by ddickinson
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Empress_Owl: Good afternoon, GOG people... I hope your day is less boring than mine so far... Just out of an epic working meeting... +__+
**Big bored hug**
*big pleasing hug*
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ddickinson: And another reason why I won't give those books a second chance. :-)
Understandable. My wife will also never read them. And I'm torn on continuing. I'm still curious what may happen next, but overall the books are excessively sadistic towards the characters. And there's almost no humour or "glimmers of hope" to lighten things up sometimes.

The Witcher books also sometimes describe horrible scenes (especially the later ones). But there is always a counter-balance, where the good guys score, or a certain witty, sometimes dark, humour shines through.

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moonshineshadow: That is understandable. I just want to hear your opinion (and of course Toms opinion too). Did you feel the rape was included to be entertaining or to make the battles and wars and everything more realistic?
I think Martin wanted to go all "dark and gritty". And I think it's overdone. I've lost all empathy for the main characters, because horrible things (not only rape) happen to them all the time and at some point I just didn't care that much anymore - maybe self-preservation.

Whereas, as I wrote above, Sapkowski made me care very much about the characters and the world they live in. To point of tears in fact. And he also has horrible things happening, there's also murder, pogroms, torture, rape, razed villages... But doesn't ... revel in it like Martin does. It's more like a distanced, sad, sometimes furious, view on what people are capable of. In Martin's book I have the impression it's more "entertainment" value to show "drastic" scenes.
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ElTerprise: I see. So why the f*ck then?
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AgentBirdnest: Because the guy was one of the biggest assholes of all time. A brutal slave trader (father of the transatlantic slave trade, actually), mass murder, and all around evil-as-fuck piece of shit. And we celebrate him like he is the greatest hero of all time.
A pretty good summary of what Americans usually believe, compared to the truth.
Excellent link...

What a profiteering, sadistic piece of shit! Some things there I didn't know, and it made unpleasant reading.

Here's a revised version of a painting titled 'The Inspiration of Christopher Columbus.' I think its an improvement, personally.
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ddickinson: *big super epic mega hug for the lovely Owl*

I know that kind of thing happened during those ages, and I have no problem in many ways with stories having that kind of stuff in, I just can't really stand it, but that is for personal reasons, not because I think it is technically bad.
At least Miura gives us context instead of just putting it there because "crap place to live" and I gave you some examples on other things about the world that makes it crappy.
But for some reason I freaking love Guts. Yes he's an extreme case of social darwinism but reading his backstory you understand why he's like this and he isn't one note since he evolves after the Count arc and duringthe Lost Children arc.
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Stilton: Excellent link...

What a profiteering, sadistic piece of shit! Some things there I didn't know, and it made unpleasant reading.

Here's a revised version of a painting titled 'The Inspiration of Christopher Columbus.' I think its an improvement, personally.
The sad thing is, many of the "heroes" of the US were not the people they are made out to be. But then that is true for many other nations (Ghandi, for example), but America seems to be one of the worst for trying to change history or mislead people.

No offence intended to the lovely Americans.

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toxicTom: Understandable. My wife will also never read them. And I'm torn on continuing. I'm still curious what may happen next, but overall the books are excessively sadistic towards the characters. And there's almost no humour or "glimmers of hope" to lighten things up sometimes.

The Witcher books also sometimes describe horrible scenes (especially the later ones). But there is always a counter-balance, where the good guys score, or a certain witty, sometimes dark, humour shines through.
Don't get me started on the Witcher books, or those horrible games. *hides from the Witcher mega fan* :-)

Only joking, I have not read or played them yet. I do have the first book (some German guy bullied me into buying it ;-)), but with all that has been going on I have not read it yet.

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l0rdtr3k: At least Miura gives us context instead of just putting it there because "crap place to live" and I gave you some examples on other things about the world that makes it crappy.
But for some reason I freaking love Guts. Yes he's an extreme case of social darwinism but reading his backstory you understand why he's like this and he isn't one note since he evolves after the Count arc and duringthe Lost Children arc.
You don't need to justify yourself, or the show, I was not attacking either. I was just saying my person point of view on those things, and that is heavily influenced by working where I did and seeing and hearing some absolutely horrific things.
Post edited October 12, 2015 by ddickinson
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ddickinson: Does Canada also call it Jelly, even the British part?
No idea... We just like to blame them for everything, and steal their good stuff :-p
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Empress_Owl: Good afternoon, GOG people... I hope your day is less boring than mine so far... Just out of an epic working meeting... +__+
**Big bored hug**
**Big interesting hug** :-)
Good mornoon, Wings!
Post edited October 12, 2015 by AgentBirdnest
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ddickinson: Only joking, I have not read or played them yet. I do have the first book (some German guy bullied me into buying it ;-)), but with all that has been going on I have not read it yet.
We shall give that guy a beating, lest he bullies you into actually reading it...


O_o
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AgentBirdnest: No idea... We just like to blame them for everything, and steal their good stuff :-p
But half of them are French, Owl will be mad that you are stealing from French people. :-)
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Stilton: Excellent link...

What a profiteering, sadistic piece of shit! Some things there I didn't know, and it made unpleasant reading.

Here's a revised version of a painting titled 'The Inspiration of Christopher Columbus.' I think its an improvement, personally.
Couldn't get the mental images out of my head today, so figured I'd force it on other people to share my misery :-p (Joking about the second part of that sentence.)

Definitely an improvement...

Oh, and good day, Stilton :-)