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General discussionConclusion of the Fair Price Package program(910 posts)(910 posts)
(910 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2019
On March 31st we are going to discontinue the Fair Price Package program. Let us explain the reasoning behind this decision.

We came up with Fair Price Package (FPP) as a way to make up the price difference between various countries. Some games on GOG.COM have regional pricing, meaning the price of the same game in one place can be higher compared to its price in North America. In countries where the game is more expensive, we give users the equivalent of the price difference in GOG Wallet funds. In actual numbers, on average, we give users back 12% of the game price from our own pocket. In some cases, this number can reach as high as 37%.

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss.

Removing FPP is not a decision we make lightly, but by making this change, we will be able to offer better conditions to game creators, which — in turn — will allow us to offer you more curated classic games and new releases. All DRM-free.

We wanted to make sure you have some lead time to still benefit from the Fair Price Package. The program will last until the 31st of March, 2019, so if you would like to take advantage of it, now is the time. The funds you gather from the program will keep the 12 months expiration date from the moment you’ve been granted your last funds.
Posted February 26, 2019
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First of all, thank you for your support. This was not an easy decision to discontinue the FPP program and we're grateful to you for understanding the reasons behind it. We see that quite a few of you raised concerns about GOG's future. As a part of publicly traded company, we can't comment on any financial results until they are officially reported, but we want to ensure you everything is good with GOG. Being part of a big gaming company, some reports - especially some given by significant media outlets - can often sound much scarier than reality.

You've been also concerned about your access to the games you’ve purchased on GOG. We've covered this topic years ago and it's been in our User Agreement for a long time (please check the section 17.3). This is not only a legal obligation to you but a core part of our ethics as a company.

But don’t worry, all is good, and we have a great plan for the future of GOG. We can’t wait for you to see some of the exciting things we have coming very soon.

EDIT: pinned
Post edited February 26, 2019 by elcook
Posted August 17, 2019
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NovHak: I remember some years ago, people voicing concern about what will happen if Steam ever goes bankrupt. Steam replied, and promised they would take measures should that happen, so that people will still be able to play their games. Yeah, *would* take measures *should* that happen. So, what's the plan in practice ? Let me laugh.
Gabe did reply back to someone asking him that, and I previously posted his archived Steam forum response (complete with screenshot) here:-

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_said_what_would_happen_to_our_games_if_it_shuts_down/post32

As you can see, no actual "promise" was ever made, "Steam will remove all DRM if they shut down" is mostly an urban myth that Steam gamers made up to tell each other what they want to hear.
Post edited August 17, 2019 by AB2012
Posted August 17, 2019
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NovHak: I remember some years ago, people voicing concern about what will happen if Steam ever goes bankrupt. Steam replied, and promised they would take measures should that happen, so that people will still be able to play their games. Yeah, *would* take measures *should* that happen. So, what's the plan in practice ? Let me laugh.
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AB2012: Gabe did reply back to someone asking him that, and I previously posted his archived Steam forum response (complete with screenshot) here:-

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_said_what_would_happen_to_our_games_if_it_shuts_down/post32

As you can see, no actual "promise" was ever made, "Steam will remove all DRM if they shut down" is mostly an urban myth that Steam gamers made up to tell each other what they want to hear.
Absolutely
Posted August 17, 2019
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OldOldGamer: I have so many dos games I can't play anymore, simply because ... technology moved on.
Check your games on this list to see whether it is playable. If yes, you can look into the guides how to make it playable.
https://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php
Post edited August 17, 2019 by Themken
Posted August 19, 2019
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AB2012: As you can see, no actual "promise" was ever made, "Steam will remove all DRM if they shut down" is mostly an urban myth that Steam gamers made up to tell each other what they want to hear.
Thanks for the pointer !

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OldOldGamer: I have so many dos games I can't play anymore, simply because ... technology moved on.
Technology moving on is another problem and is indeed a problem, but DRM is an additional obstacle.

Concerning technology, namely old games not being compatible with newer standards, that's essentially a matter of an API being removed from official support, mostly for security reasons. However, it's perfectly possible for the original maintainer to provide an emulated environment for abandoned tech, at the same time it is being phased out, and that's what MS did with Windows 7 and their XP mode. That should be the rule, now that we have some experience about standards changing, but sadly MS removed that.

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OldOldGamer: Cars doesn't have replacement parts.
Planes end up in museums becasue people that maintain them are long dead, bring knowledge with them.
In our matter, replacement parts are code, and the code already exists. The problem with compatibility is the API code being abandoned, lost, due to either short term view or senseless greed, and then people coming and trying to redo what was already done in the past. As Themken said, Dosbox is a good example and we are lucky those people came in.

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OldOldGamer: Take DosBox for example: what would happen if no one will invest time in porting it to a new OS?
Then it should be run on an older system. And that's precisely why an emulation environment should be released by the maintainers whenever an API is abandoned, because in that model, it would always be possible to run older software, possibly through a few successive layers of emulation. And after some time the API code should be released open source anyway, so that reliable emulators can be developed for the most recent OS without as much of a hassle as nowadays, removing the need to stack emulation layers.
Posted August 12, 2020
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mobutu: So you'll not use VPN to buy at whatever region price you desire because "it's illegal" but instead you'll pirate by downloading torrent copies?
Logic just took a big smash-hit in the teeth
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Zoidberg: It is as illegal... and thus if it's the same I'd rather express my disagreement by not pay money...

Doesn't need to seem logical to you really, I really couldn't care less about what you guys think about it.
How are you boycotting if you still download and play their games? Do even know what the definition of boycott is?

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Zoidberg: It is as illegal.
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Klumpen0815: So is discrimination, too bad those laws are rarely enforced.

Imagine going to a GameStop and having your price calculated after you show them the nationality on your ID.
Do the same online and nobody bats an eye.
...except GOG is not a retail store....they are a publisher and I guess they are in their right to do whatever the hell they want with their games....

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Erynar: It does seem kind of hypocritical to allow 18+ content with games like The Witcher 3 and not allow 18+ visual novels
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Witcher isn't an 18+ game. If it were, then it would be rated AO for Adults Only, which it's not. Rather, it's rated M for Mature 17+.

GOG doesn't allow AO games unless they have been censored first before being sold on GOG.

So GOG's policy is consistent. It's not a good policy, but it is consistent.
So where do you get 18+ rated games that are both uncensored and drm free?

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Ancient-Red-Dragon: GOG doesn't allow AO games unless they have been censored first before being sold on GOG.

So GOG's policy is consistent. It's not a good policy, but it is consistent.
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Could you please say that again? Wasn't one of GOG's own policies, to "Offer Uncensored games whenever possible"? And they even marked the relative wishlist entry, "in progress", years ago?

Regional Pricing/other policies being dropped is one thing, completely fooling the customers ever since the beginning is another!

Can somebody please verify/confirm?
Wait, they actually said this? Now they're taking back they said because they changed their mind on it? Bah....

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Corvalan: Cool. Hope you keep making a decent profit and existing.
Hahaha, nice burn....

OK, the forum post is broken....wont accept large posts....


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HertogJan: You never owned a game, just like you never own a record or movie. You own the license for a copy of it and you own the fysical item that's carrying it.
If you owned it, you could make more copies and sell it legally.
Damn, this brand new fridge I bought, I can't resell it as secondhand because I don't own it. I wonder how other stores and individuals are able to sell secondhand goods like this?


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Zetikla: Btw many indie games still release in physical packages with disks and all that if you are so insisting on those
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SPTX: Which still require a steam activation. You're still missing the point. Whenever I go to a store I look up for games that don't need an internet connection to install. Besides a few shovelwares, only the witcher 3 fills the bill. And as I already said (again) even games that are on GOG get retail releases with a steam requirement.
You may get the odd indie games that are actually drm free and be played on an offline computer with no fuss....

why are new posts appended to previous post? Seems a bit silly and with I assume sort of character limit per post, it makes it impossible to reply with a large wall of text...
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Newbie
Posted August 12, 2020
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elcook: You've been also concerned about your access to the games you’ve purchased on GOG. We've covered this topic years ago and it's been in our User Agreement for a long time (please check the section 17.3). This is not only a legal obligation to you but a core part of our ethics as a company.
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CelineSSauve: Don't User Agreements have it written in that they can change at any time?
Yes....I believe they do....
Posted August 12, 2020
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CelineSSauve: All I know is that it happened multiple times, and each time it felt like a nice middle-finger for early support.
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skirtish: When I still used to buy games on Steam and had bought Skyrim, I remember I felt punished later on when I saw that the whole package (DLC + original game) was always a better deal than getting the DLC individually. I resolved then to never buy the original Bethesda release again and always wait for the GOTY edition.

*But* it would probably serve you well to abandon this shtick about your early "support". The Witcher is not a small independent release that depends on your support or which will be financially grateful to you for providing it. You are just buying it early. There are games and game shops that turn this table, games you want to have early and which do not reward you for it, but which make you pay a premium for the privilege instead. Nowadays a lot of AAA franchises fall into this category. They have enough of a loyal, passionate, or indiscrimate customer base to be able to do this. There are two different philosophies, two different sets of principles at work here. One of them might honor your "support", others are looking to gouge you for money because they believe or know it's them dictating the terms.
Yeah, when you pre order or buy game on release date, you're basically paying the "I get to play this early before anyone else" feeling or "I feel bored and really need/want to play this game". Basically your instant gratification for paying full price....
Posted August 12, 2020
australia
Posted August 12, 2020
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Pheace: Our sticker prices include VAT though (+17-27%) so essentially they're selling those games to us for less than the US price, more than the currency offset. There's some countries this doesn't apply to but those countries should have proper regional pricing applied.
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Cavalary: As always, that has nothing to do with regional pricing. And, if anything, they can take it as the cost of doing business in the EU. If you want to sell to Russia (where the "economic reality" is comparable to Romania or Bulgaria, mind you) you give them 70-75% discount, if you want to sell to Latin America it's ~50% discount, similar for China, in the EU you may need to give a discount equal to the VAT... If only customers would act the same as the Russians or South Americans and just "pirate" everything not sold on those terms, forcing publishers and stores to respect them if they want to earn anything at all.
Wait, really - is this a thing? Publishers MUST give them a discount to their country or they country will pirate their games? Is that why games in those countries are less expensive than say USA or Australia?
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firstpastthepost: A couple of the things you mention are things people were legitimately upset about. At least 95% of what you mention is total BS or stuff that no one should reasonably care about.
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tfishell: apehater apparently went of the rails a few years back and is now basically a troll and/or batshit insane and obsessed with nursing a grudge against GOG. :P Some of his points are important - missing patches is imo key - but basically the only thing he does now is complain so for his posts I unfortunately throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Wait, what happened to him few years back?
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apehater: what TF!? how bout you finally (after 5 years) get your shit together and start to not flushing money down the toilet instead of going on with all the BS you've pulled???

how bout no regional blocks, games that work, no profile BS or discontinue that horrible crappy galaxy client abomination you spend money on?

or keep going on and get bankrupt!!

just a reminder of some BS you've pulled so far and pissed off your own customer base:

Galaxy
Regional pricing
Pre order dlc
Indev
Drip feed games
Online only games
Online almost all required games
Games with steam install
Delayed patches
Non existant updates
Abandoned games
Lack of communication
Forum broken
Pressurise galaxy at every moment
Lack of privacy
Still no fix classic downloads
Galaxy only multiplayer
Crap sales over and over again giving 0.01% discount on a game which is already vastly overpriced
Higher prices against competitors
Missing Linux versions
Lack of dev interest in platform
Terrible communication
Insistence on social integration
Connect
Failed movies
Copying all industry drivel like many different versions of a product
Selling manuals separately
Endless broken posts
Giveaways only on social media
Shovelware, by the truckload. New slogan should be, you shovel it, we will sell it.
1 - Galaxy is still optional, so I dont see what the problem is...?
2 - OK, I guess regional pricing has come back....
3 - Pre order dlc - well thats out of control from gog since they're not the game developer
4 - What's indey?
5 - what do u mean by drip feed games?
6 - examples of online almost required games? Thought this place was drm free place so no games should be online only?
7 - Games with steam install - as long as its drm free, who cares if the game is based from steam? Did you know steam also steals games from GOG too and uses their installers on the steam platform? Do you complain about that too?
8 - Delayed patches is a devoloper issue....not GOG.....
9 - Non existant updates for...?
10 - Abandoned games?
11 - Lack of communication...right, what do we have right here?
12 - Forum being broken, ok I guess I somewhat agree with this, had one post where the quote didnt work for some reason....and now when trying to post this reply it won't let me as it's stuck "processing" when I reckon the issue is character limit since it appends new post to last post for some reason, when there's obviously an edit button to do this.... Ok, scratch that, I completely agree the forum is now broken, can't even post anymore since post button does nothing when I wanna post a new post...maybe a hidden spam feature to prevent me from spamming posts, even though I've only done two....? Ok, it looks like only the reply button works for me and only works for that quote too, so if I change the quote, it will be stuck on processing reply for me....which is why you're now seeing me spam more than one post, rather than one huge wall of text post....
13 - ok fair enough, I guess they do this somewhatly...Pressurise galaxy at every moment
14 - what lack of privacy?
15 - what is this fix to classic downloads?
16 - ok, I guess that would be an issue with galaxy being the only avenue to do multiplayer....but that's on the developer, not GOG...
17 - Just wait for a better sale? Devs set the prices, so I dont think GOG has control over the prices...
18 - If you don't like the prices here, then obviously go buy from their competitors?
19 - The linux issue would be on the devs...
20 - well the lack of dev interest in platform isn't really GOG's problem, is it?
21 - Examples of "Terrible communication"?
22 - Then ignore?
23 - What's wrong with Connect? You get free games if you have the same game on steam...assuming the devs are opted in for this....
24 - That's subjective...
25 - I don't understand, please elaborate on this?
26 - what games sell their manuals separately? And well, this wouldnt be GOG's problem if the devs requested this themselves....
27 - I wouldn't say endless unless you have an example of broken posts?
28 - Well then that's our fault not having a social media account or checking up on them if we do, now isn't it?
29 - What is shovelware?
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timmy010: i can't realistically be expected to use gog as a service any longer. there are too many risks.

1. quality of installers are poor e.g. tomb raider
2. website interaction e.g. gbp / login errors
3. galaxy shoved down users throats.
4. staff lay-offs
5. no more cashback
6. unrealistically helpful support
7. miscellaneous minor things unlikely to affect majority of users.

i'm too concerned by gog as a service. i couldn't top-up my wallet even if i wanted to anymore. i might buy only cdpr games as a first party service but that would be my limit.
1 - can be fixed running the install with revo
2 - probably using an outdated browser
3 - not me, or else I'd be affected too
4 - I guess they're downsizing
5 - Regional price cashback or something else?
6 - I guess you must have gotten someone who had a shit day...
7 - what are these misc things?
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Newbie
Posted August 12, 2020
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Cavalary: By the way, if DRM free is the only thing you care for, GOG's not the only option.
I had no idea there were other sources for drm free besides GOG and the odd retail box copies of games in retail stores...thanks...

Oh...I see there's a timer to this new "new post append previous post" feature deal thing.....every 10 minutes?
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Fairfox: australia
what about australia?
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Newbie
Posted August 12, 2020
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Barry_Woodward: I've seen it mentioned often enough to take notice that people in certain regions end up paying more on GOG than Steam. I'd be interested if someone could expand on that.
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zlaywal: Beside the currency fluctuation and tax, Steam cover all parts of the world with their regional pricing scheme. This old article is one that attempt to dig deeper about it: https://www.pcgamer.com/the-weird-ecomomics-behind-steam-prices-around-the-world/
That's an interesting article....I had thought suggesting a uniform consistent pricing across all regions like that article mentioning $60 = £60 = €60 which I had thought would be pretty fair and easy to go with but that makes anyone buying from the UK and EU regions to be ripped off....which I hadn't thought about....so really the only way to fix all of this is one world currency and no tax or silly exchange rates. At least the only true way, the other method would be for the publisher and or developers to just suck in the exchange rate and tax of each region's country because that's what they have to deal with when selling to make buyers happy.

> Rather than lose sales to piracy, the logical move is to adjust prices to a level more affected by the market demand and sustainability than the direct exchange rate.

You're never gonna beat piracy...there will always be people who will never pay even if they like the game, its just in their nature. Of course there could be other reasons why they pirate besides pricing.....
Posted August 12, 2020
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Tarhiel:
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Cavalary: I said values other than that one. And GOG decided to give up on its other values and did so. They had decided to give up on the flat pricing 5 years ago too,
Is the flat pricing the $60 USD = $60 EUR = $60 GBP kind of deal or different?

What other values did they *used* to uphold, if I may so ask?

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Cavalary: You struggle while upholding those values to the bitter end, obviously refuse anything putting additional pressure on you, which in GOG's case starts with CDP's demands for them to fund their development and then also build and maintain the infrastructure for Gwent, which brought this increase in operating costs that put GOG in the red in the first place, and if that's really not enough you eventually fold. And that'd leave room even for some from your own team, not to mention others, to pick up that banner and try again later.
Wait...so all of this was because they created GWENT?!
Posted August 12, 2020
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Graymatter: I must be missing something. All of my 170 odd games can be downloaded from the site directly and are DRM free. Which ones aren't?
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Klumpen0815: GWENT comes to mind.
Gremlins Inc.'s DLC was locked to online authentication (the whole game was removed by now), same for some other DLCs at least for a while although that was mostly fixed.
Many multi-player modes need Galaxy and/or third party accounts, actually.
I have started gathering information about that but it was too tedious to do it alone:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/lists_games_that_need_galaxy_for_multiplayer_and_the_ones_that_dont/page1

Some examples:
Age of Wonders III + Eternal Lords + Golden Realms (multi-player needs serial registration and regular authenticity check)
American Conquest + Fight Back (multi-player needs serial registration)
Battle Worlds: Kronos (multi-player needs serial registration)
Chaos Reborn (multi-player needs serial registration)
DEFCON (multi-player needs serial registration)
Din's Curse + Demon War (multi-player needs serial registration)

Absolver locks away most of the game's content behind the online multi-player thanks to its level-up system and unfortunately that needs Galaxy (which isn't even on Linux and closed source due to its authentication mechanism, so can't be ported properly by the community).

That's just what I know of.
The list of games where the multi-player needs Galaxy is much longer of course.
Interesting....is there a list or someone keeping track of these "partial drm free games" anywhere on the forum or elsewhere?
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Wottie: 2) FPP. Yes, it's abandoning one of the GOG pillars, as Cavalry repeatedly points out. And someone else in this thread also said something like, "You came into the business saying you want to change it. Now the business is changing you." Very, very true. Still, I could understand it if we were told about it in an open manner, like, "Epic is doing X, we have to do Y to stay competitive. We're sorry to abandon our former pillar, but we have to do it to stay in the black numbers." Instead, "incidentally", the news of GOG terminating the FPP had been published just minutes or hours before three other news items were published on the same day, so that this unpopular one would leave the front page immediately. That's cowardly and far from being open and honest. (While I have nothing against scheduling it shortly before the Diablo killer news - that's a pretty obvious stunt but fair comms.)

To sum it up - GOG used to be a friend with a "by gamers for gamers" attitude. Now we receive a lot of corporate bullpoop one way or another. And losing a customer's trust is the first step to losing that customer.
That makes sense.
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Mark-Mark: Now days 'DRM free' actually means 'DRM free but only for single player'.

If you want a game for multiplayer buying it on another platform is your best option.
Kindly point to a place that sells games that are 100% drm free including multiplayer mode?
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Newbie
Posted August 12, 2020
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Mark-Mark: Just remember to fact into the value proposition that GOG is very lazy when it comes to publishers updating games. They allowed Nordic to have darksiders 2 in a broken state for in excess of a year & still put it on sale.
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Lucumo: Yeah, I don't buy those in general. GOG-Mixes helped keeping track of those games but at least we can still refer to the relevant thread.
Well the mixes are gone now...
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Mark-Mark: Now days 'DRM free' actually means 'DRM free but only for single player'.
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Cavalary: To be fair that was always the case. Back in the day it was, say, needing a CD key for NWN multiplayer, now it's on-line checks and Galaxy, but DRM is DRM.
More concerning are games that have (optional) content or features applying to singleplayer as well requiring 3rd party accounts. And there are a couple of such cases. That's where even this last remaining pillar is showing a few cracks too, not the multiplayer.
Age of Empires you didnt need a cd key to play multiplayer. counter strike, you didnt need a cd key to play multiplayer....what are you talking about?
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Newbie
Posted August 12, 2020
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Scuanor: Steam is for Children, GOG is for Grown-Ups.
Shots fired.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionConclusion of the Fair Price Package program(910 posts)(910 posts)
(910 posts)