It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
On March 31st we are going to discontinue the Fair Price Package program. Let us explain the reasoning behind this decision.

We came up with Fair Price Package (FPP) as a way to make up the price difference between various countries. Some games on GOG.COM have regional pricing, meaning the price of the same game in one place can be higher compared to its price in North America. In countries where the game is more expensive, we give users the equivalent of the price difference in GOG Wallet funds. In actual numbers, on average, we give users back 12% of the game price from our own pocket. In some cases, this number can reach as high as 37%.

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss.

Removing FPP is not a decision we make lightly, but by making this change, we will be able to offer better conditions to game creators, which — in turn — will allow us to offer you more curated classic games and new releases. All DRM-free.

We wanted to make sure you have some lead time to still benefit from the Fair Price Package. The program will last until the 31st of March, 2019, so if you would like to take advantage of it, now is the time. The funds you gather from the program will keep the 12 months expiration date from the moment you’ve been granted your last funds.
high rated
First of all, thank you for your support. This was not an easy decision to discontinue the FPP program and we're grateful to you for understanding the reasons behind it. We see that quite a few of you raised concerns about GOG's future. As a part of publicly traded company, we can't comment on any financial results until they are officially reported, but we want to ensure you everything is good with GOG. Being part of a big gaming company, some reports - especially some given by significant media outlets - can often sound much scarier than reality.

You've been also concerned about your access to the games you’ve purchased on GOG. We've covered this topic years ago and it's been in our User Agreement for a long time (please check the section 17.3). This is not only a legal obligation to you but a core part of our ethics as a company.

But don’t worry, all is good, and we have a great plan for the future of GOG. We can’t wait for you to see some of the exciting things we have coming very soon.

EDIT: pinned
Post edited February 26, 2019 by elcook
avatar
RWarehall: You mean the American VAT of 0%...see my point?

At least some portion of regional pricing makes sense.
avatar
Lucumo: You just wrote something completely different. Also, AFAIK, VAT differs between the different states.
No it doesn't. That is called sales tax and the individual purchaser is responsible to pay it on his or her end of year taxes, not GoG. It is not included in the price.
avatar
Lucumo: You just wrote something completely different. Also, AFAIK, VAT differs between the different states.
avatar
RWarehall: No it doesn't. That is called sales tax and the individual purchaser is responsible to pay it on his or her end of year taxes, not GoG. It is not included in the price.
Doesn't matter how it's called (the US and their archaic ways again). Do I have to cite the relevant section again?
6.4. All prices are visible in the product catalogue page. They’re inclusive of legally applicable sales taxes/VAT.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Receipt_California_restaurant_2006.jpg <-- So you pay the $19.57 sales tax at the end of the year, eh?
avatar
RWarehall: No it doesn't. That is called sales tax and the individual purchaser is responsible to pay it on his or her end of year taxes, not GoG. It is not included in the price.
avatar
Lucumo: Doesn't matter how it's called (the US and their archaic ways again). Do I have to cite the relevant section again?

6.4. All prices are visible in the product catalogue page. They’re inclusive of legally applicable sales taxes/VAT.
avatar
Lucumo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Receipt_California_restaurant_2006.jpg <-- So you pay the $19.57 sales tax at the end of the year, eh?
But GoG doesn't pay the U.S. sales taxes because they are not "legally applicable" to a company based in Europe. That's the point! You can play all the words games you want, but the truth is that much of regional price differences are because of the additional price those businesses have to pay the governments of those countries.

For goods and services bought online outside our particular state, we have to pay sales taxes at the end of the year on our tax forms. The California restaurant example is when you buy it within that state, you pay it immediately as would any foreigner who came to California. Large U.S. online retailers such as Steam and Amazon now charge sales taxes even though they are based in a different state. In fact, if one lives in Chicago, Steam also charges the city sales tax. This is a very recent change. But for any goods bought online where sales tax has not been charged, we are responsible for paying our state and local sales taxes ourselves at the end of the year.

If I buy something online from a small company in Texas, they don't charge me a sales tax, but I'm still responsible to pay my own state or local sales taxes at the end of the year for what I bought. Same with non-U.S. online retailers.
All in all this seems to me like one of those "who's going lose" big this time.

Some of you can put regional pricing down (and I agree sometimes) but this opens up a ton of doors for others from, well, other places than yours to join in. Which is extremely good, right?

You wouldn't climb up and then kick the ladder. Right?

RIGHT? :)

avatar
Experiment513: I hope GOG will get financially stronger afterwards!
That's what I hope as well. They were brutally honest bringing this upfront.
Post edited March 12, 2019 by victorchopin
avatar
SPTX: Why would you crowdfund a store? If you want to help them, just buy.
Crowdfunding gives them more money. I mean, I can buy a game for 60 euro and then GOG gets to keep a few euro. Or I can give GOG 60 euro and then they can continue to release classic games working on modern systems. :)

*treasures his LucasArts games and other classic games*
avatar
RWarehall: Of course VAT has something to do with it! My understanding is that the EU requires VAT to be included in the advertised price. Thus, the price should be the USD equivalent + VAT to be equal.

Your logic is flawed and it clearly is not just an excuse.
avatar
Lucumo: No, GOG's Amerian prices include VAT as well.

6.4. All prices are visible in the product catalogue page. They’re inclusive of legally applicable sales taxes/VAT.
avatar
Lucumo: It's written in the user agreement.
The other thing to consider is companies are taxed on 'profits' not 'revenue'. In the EU VAT is around 20% (some a little more not many much less). Corp tax in Poland is around 20% too.

Case a) If a game costs 10 Euros (no VAT like in some US states), 6 goes to the pub GOG keeps 4 then pays tax on it at 20%, they keep 3.20 Euros

Case b) If a game costs 10Euros +20% VAT = 12 Euros, 6 goes to the pub leaving 6, the VAT (2 Euros) goes to the tax man leaving 4 Euros they then pay corp tax on it leaving 3.20 Euros profit

As you can see ultimately the sales tax is ultimately irrelevant. A store can lose far more in revenue from bad exchange rates & their publishers wanting to be paid in USD instead of Euros.

Historically non-EU retailers were not required to charge VAT on digital purchases, it changed a few yrs ago & now they are obligated to collect it on behalf of the tax authority of the purchasing individuals member state.

Even before VAT was collected I had the situation that I bought a game in the UK for £10 at a point when the exchange rate had just tipped over to £1= $2 which happened between Apr-Nov 2007 only to find EA were charging $10. when I was in the US for the same product (but with more digital content).

My point is simply this European countries being charged more has nothing to do with tax & all to do with the fact they believe they can get away with it. GOG used to be a place that crap didn't fly.... now GOG are saying 'crap fight'
avatar
Mark-Mark: Steam Pros
- Frequent updates
- More people to play MP with
I think "updates" and multiplayer (if there is no direct IP capability in the game) are overly overrated. But that's just my opinion, unless someone else wants to defend GOG or take a dump on steam, I'll concede you this point.
Even for the DRM free part, because I consider that anything that requires an internet connection at any point is DRM, which includes GOG.
avatar
Lucumo: No, GOG's Amerian prices include VAT as well.

It's written in the user agreement.
avatar
Mark-Mark: The other thing to consider is companies are taxed on 'profits' not 'revenue'. In the EU VAT is around 20% (some a little more not many much less). Corp tax in Poland is around 20% too.

Case a) If a game costs 10 Euros (no VAT like in some US states), 6 goes to the pub GOG keeps 4 then pays tax on it at 20%, they keep 3.20 Euros

Case b) If a game costs 10Euros +20% VAT = 12 Euros, 6 goes to the pub leaving 6, the VAT (2 Euros) goes to the tax man leaving 4 Euros they then pay corp tax on it leaving 3.20 Euros profit

As you can see ultimately the sales tax is ultimately irrelevant. A store can lose far more in revenue from bad exchange rates & their publishers wanting to be paid in USD instead of Euros.

Historically non-EU retailers were not required to charge VAT on digital purchases, it changed a few yrs ago & now they are obligated to collect it on behalf of the tax authority of the purchasing individuals member state.

Even before VAT was collected I had the situation that I bought a game in the UK for £10 at a point when the exchange rate had just tipped over to £1= $2 which happened between Apr-Nov 2007 only to find EA were charging $10. when I was in the US for the same product (but with more digital content).

My point is simply this European countries being charged more has nothing to do with tax & all to do with the fact they believe they can get away with it. GOG used to be a place that crap didn't fly.... now GOG are saying 'crap fight'
The part that is relevant to this discussion is what happens now with Fair Pricing...
This 10 Euro game with 20% VAT under Fair Pricing...
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 6 goes to the publisher (actually 7 but I'm sticking to your example), 2 goes to the tax man for VAT, and 2 is given back as store credit leaving 2 Euro taxed at 20% profit or 1.6 Euro for GoG.
See how GoG revenue has just been halved in this example? 1.6 Euro vs. 3.2 Euro

Or if you use the real 70%/30% split with 20% VAT and fair pricing...
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 7 goes to the publisher, 2 goes to the tax man for VAT, and 2 is given back as store credit leaving 1 Euro taxed at 20% profit or 0.8 Euro for GoG.

Without fair pricing:
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 7 goes to the publisher, 2 goes to the tax man for VAT leaving 3 Euros taxed at 20% profit or 2.4 Euro for GoG.

4 times the profit. Now, I don't think the 20% tax on profits comes out before operating expenses, but regardless, the Fair Pricing Plan costs GoG a whole lot of their revenues.
Post edited March 12, 2019 by RWarehall
avatar
RWarehall: The part that is relevant to this discussion is what happens now with Fair Pricing...
This 10 Euro game with 20% VAT under Fair Pricing...
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 6 goes to the publisher (actually 7 but I'm sticking to your example), 2 goes to the tax man for VAT, and 2 is given back as store credit leaving 2 Euro taxed at 20% profit or 1.6 Euro for GoG.
See how GoG revenue has just been halved in this example? 1.6 Euro vs. 3.2 Euro

Or if you use the real 70%/30% split with 20% VAT and fair pricing...
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 7 goes to the publisher, 2 goes to the tax man for VAT, and 2 is given back as store credit leaving 1 Euro taxed at 20% profit or 0.8 Euro for GoG.

Without fair pricing:
GoG charges 12 Euro, of which 7 goes to the publisher, 2 goes to the tax man for VAT leaving 3 Euros taxed at 20% profit or 2.4 Euro for GoG.

4 times the profit. Now, I don't think the 20% tax on profits comes out before operating expenses, but regardless, the Fair Pricing Plan costs GoG a whole lot of their revenues.
Your example leaves out the option ...
Fair price package = 0,80€ for GOG
No fiair price package = 0,00€ for GOG
Seems less than before, but who am I to question GOG‘s genius decissions.
avatar
john_hatcher: Your example leaves out the option ...
Fair price package = 0,80€ for GOG
No fiair price package = 0,00€ for GOG
Seems less than before, but who am I to question GOG‘s genius decissions.
What if that 0.80 Euro costs 1 Euro to support?
Now GoG is losing 0.2 Euro...vs. losing nothing without your purchase...

Who is the genius now?
avatar
john_hatcher: Your example leaves out the option ...
Fair price package = 0,80€ for GOG
No fiair price package = 0,00€ for GOG
Seems less than before, but who am I to question GOG‘s genius decissions.
avatar
RWarehall: What if that 0.80 Euro costs 1 Euro to support?
Now GoG is losing 0.2 Euro...vs. losing nothing without your purchase...

Who is the genius now?
I don't think you understand how this online publishing business works... Everything runs H24, not just when someone spends money, if they lost one or a thousand customers, they will still have to run everything at all times for whatever the amount of customers they have.
Now if GOG decided to part with FPP, it's because they calculated that the new yields in profit would compensate for the (inevitable) loss of customers. It's not a "if" thing, but a "how much" thing.
Now the question is, did they guess right?
Spoilers : we'll have to wait for next yearly report, but if cyberpunk releases this year you should wait for the following year instead, because this game is a surefire that will boost the sales for a few months, thus occulting the matter.
avatar
Lucumo: Doesn't matter how it's called (the US and their archaic ways again). Do I have to cite the relevant section again?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Receipt_California_restaurant_2006.jpg <-- So you pay the $19.57 sales tax at the end of the year, eh?
avatar
RWarehall: But GoG doesn't pay the U.S. sales taxes because they are not "legally applicable" to a company based in Europe. That's the point! You can play all the words games you want, but the truth is that much of regional price differences are because of the additional price those businesses have to pay the governments of those countries.

For goods and services bought online outside our particular state, we have to pay sales taxes at the end of the year on our tax forms. The California restaurant example is when you buy it within that state, you pay it immediately as would any foreigner who came to California. Large U.S. online retailers such as Steam and Amazon now charge sales taxes even though they are based in a different state. In fact, if one lives in Chicago, Steam also charges the city sales tax. This is a very recent change. But for any goods bought online where sales tax has not been charged, we are responsible for paying our state and local sales taxes ourselves at the end of the year.

If I buy something online from a small company in Texas, they don't charge me a sales tax, but I'm still responsible to pay my own state or local sales taxes at the end of the year for what I bought. Same with non-U.S. online retailers.
Wouldn't games for US customers be cheaper on GOG then if Steam charges sales tax while GOG doesn't have to?

So, does the small company in Texas tell the government that you bought something there then? If not, you could just as easily not declare that you bought something there (or you just forgot about it).
avatar
Lucumo: Wouldn't games for US customers be cheaper on GOG then if Steam charges sales tax while GOG doesn't have to?

So, does the small company in Texas tell the government that you bought something there then? If not, you could just as easily not declare that you bought something there (or you just forgot about it).
Steam charges sales tax AFTER the price! Now that Steam takes out state and local sales taxes, I pay an additional 6%.
The prices are the same, but the U.S. charges sales taxes on top of the posted prices unlike the EU which requires VAT to be included in the listed price.

Here in the U.S., my state, if I buy something for $5.99, I actually pay $6.35

Edit: As to that last part, some people do that, but if you get caught, the taxes not paid are both fined and charged interest. My state includes an option for a "Use Tax" on our tax form which charges a flat fee based on income in lieu of itemizing all these small expenditures. Think it was $50 last year not to itemize them.
Post edited March 13, 2019 by RWarehall
avatar
RWarehall: What if that 0.80 Euro costs 1 Euro to support?
Now GoG is losing 0.2 Euro...vs. losing nothing without your purchase...

Who is the genius now?
avatar
SPTX: I don't think you understand how this online publishing business works... Everything runs H24, not just when someone spends money, if they lost one or a thousand customers, they will still have to run everything at all times for whatever the amount of customers they have.
Now if GOG decided to part with FPP, it's because they calculated that the new yields in profit would compensate for the (inevitable) loss of customers. It's not a "if" thing, but a "how much" thing.
Now the question is, did they guess right?
Spoilers : we'll have to wait for next yearly report, but if cyberpunk releases this year you should wait for the following year instead, because this game is a surefire that will boost the sales for a few months, thus occulting the matter.
Funny someone accusing me of "not understanding"...
GoG is currently losing a little money. Much of it because the Fair Pricing Plan costs them more than they make. The small profits they are making for these games in Europe are very likely costing them more money to support those customers than money they are taking in. Every transaction also costs them money. Every support request for a game. Not all costs are a flat fee for running H24 as you put it. And even then, fewer people using services can be fewer servers running using electricity or one support staff not hired too. I understand it well enough.
avatar
Pheace: You won't. It'll probably be a redirect to a direct activation on your account. Though you may just be asking when the games go on sale on other stores.
avatar
BeatriceElysia: I'm asking for details on gog games availibility on other stores & will we see selection of different games in that program or just selected few.
GOG Direct seems more like a pre-cursor for Cyberpunk than anything else. Other than maybe doing it for the witcher games, I'm not really seeing them extend it to the rest of their library. Most people shopping outside of GOG aren't interested n GOG copies, meaning a store woudl create additional confusion (which version am I buying steam or gog) for little benefit (99.99999999% of people want steam keys)