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General discussionConclusion of the Fair Price Package program(910 posts)(910 posts)
(910 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2019
On March 31st we are going to discontinue the Fair Price Package program. Let us explain the reasoning behind this decision.

We came up with Fair Price Package (FPP) as a way to make up the price difference between various countries. Some games on GOG.COM have regional pricing, meaning the price of the same game in one place can be higher compared to its price in North America. In countries where the game is more expensive, we give users the equivalent of the price difference in GOG Wallet funds. In actual numbers, on average, we give users back 12% of the game price from our own pocket. In some cases, this number can reach as high as 37%.

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss.

Removing FPP is not a decision we make lightly, but by making this change, we will be able to offer better conditions to game creators, which — in turn — will allow us to offer you more curated classic games and new releases. All DRM-free.

We wanted to make sure you have some lead time to still benefit from the Fair Price Package. The program will last until the 31st of March, 2019, so if you would like to take advantage of it, now is the time. The funds you gather from the program will keep the 12 months expiration date from the moment you’ve been granted your last funds.
Posted February 26, 2019
high rated
First of all, thank you for your support. This was not an easy decision to discontinue the FPP program and we're grateful to you for understanding the reasons behind it. We see that quite a few of you raised concerns about GOG's future. As a part of publicly traded company, we can't comment on any financial results until they are officially reported, but we want to ensure you everything is good with GOG. Being part of a big gaming company, some reports - especially some given by significant media outlets - can often sound much scarier than reality.

You've been also concerned about your access to the games you’ve purchased on GOG. We've covered this topic years ago and it's been in our User Agreement for a long time (please check the section 17.3). This is not only a legal obligation to you but a core part of our ethics as a company.

But don’t worry, all is good, and we have a great plan for the future of GOG. We can’t wait for you to see some of the exciting things we have coming very soon.

EDIT: pinned
Post edited February 26, 2019 by elcook
Posted March 05, 2019
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Klumpen0815: If this is becoming the norm now, no wonder GOG dropped it at this point, see attachment:
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Cavalary: That's actually the norm? The standard EUR = USD rate, currently making prices ~13% higher. And that in itself is actually a small difference, comparatively speaking. Not so long ago it was 24% higher, at least. May have been even more in the past, not sure, but definitely at least 24%.
Our sticker prices include VAT though (+17-27%) so essentially they're selling those games to us for less than the US price, more than the currency offset. There's some countries this doesn't apply to but those countries should have proper regional pricing applied.
Posted March 05, 2019
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Loganberrybunny: I see your The Occupation and I raise you The Caligua Effect: Overdose. Current £49.99 UK price (pre-order) gives no less than £10.70 Wallet funds.
Pretty insane. And since GOG essentially pays this from their own pockets, I can see why they have to discontinue this.
Posted March 05, 2019
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Pheace: Our sticker prices include VAT though (+17-27%) so essentially they're selling those games to us for less than the US price, more than the currency offset. There's some countries this doesn't apply to but those countries should have proper regional pricing applied.
As always, that has nothing to do with regional pricing. And, if anything, they can take it as the cost of doing business in the EU. If you want to sell to Russia (where the "economic reality" is comparable to Romania or Bulgaria, mind you) you give them 70-75% discount, if you want to sell to Latin America it's ~50% discount, similar for China, in the EU you may need to give a discount equal to the VAT... If only customers would act the same as the Russians or South Americans and just "pirate" everything not sold on those terms, forcing publishers and stores to respect them if they want to earn anything at all.
Posted March 05, 2019
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Pheace: Our sticker prices include VAT though (+17-27%) so essentially they're selling those games to us for less than the US price, more than the currency offset. There's some countries this doesn't apply to but those countries should have proper regional pricing applied.
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Cavalary: As always, that has nothing to do with regional pricing. And, if anything, they can take it as the cost of doing business in the EU. If you want to sell to Russia (where the "economic reality" is comparable to Romania or Bulgaria, mind you) you give them 70-75% discount, if you want to sell to Latin America it's ~50% discount, similar for China, in the EU you may need to give a discount equal to the VAT... If only customers would act the same as the Russians or South Americans and just "pirate" everything not sold on those terms, forcing publishers and stores to respect them if they want to earn anything at all.
We have legions of lawyers who actually prosecute people who pirate things. Their cease and desist letters are usually bundled with 1000-2000€ fines in lawyer fees. Or they drag you in front of a court, which can get you actual jail time.
Posted March 05, 2019
Sorry to derail the thread a little bit, but it seems that I cannot make purchases in Brazilian Reais anymore. Could any GOG staff clarify if this is discontinuation of their partnership with BoaCompra or a site bug or what?
Posted March 05, 2019
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Cavalary: As always, that has nothing to do with regional pricing. And, if anything, they can take it as the cost of doing business in the EU. If you want to sell to Russia (where the "economic reality" is comparable to Romania or Bulgaria, mind you) you give them 70-75% discount, if you want to sell to Latin America it's ~50% discount, similar for China, in the EU you may need to give a discount equal to the VAT... If only customers would act the same as the Russians or South Americans and just "pirate" everything not sold on those terms, forcing publishers and stores to respect them if they want to earn anything at all.
Regional pricing is relevant for those countries that somehow get priced in Euro pricing when they're not even in the EU charging VAT (assuming there are some).

And why should those companies be swallowing our VAT? (even though they partly already are at the current exchange rates). Those other countries don't have lower prices because they have tariffs/VAT the prices are being compensated for, it's because they simply don'thave as much money to spend.
Posted March 06, 2019
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Pheace: Regional pricing is relevant for those countries that somehow get priced in Euro pricing when they're not even in the EU charging VAT (assuming there are some).
Serbia and Montenegro get Euro pricing.
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Pheace: And why should those companies be swallowing our VAT? (even though they partly already are at the current exchange rates). Those other countries don't have lower prices because they have tariffs/VAT the prices are being compensated for, it's because they simply don'thave as much money to spend.
Talk about pushing against your own interests.
As for money to spend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage#European_and_transcontinental_countries_by_monthly_average_wage
Serbia - 443€ - +13% (VAT 20%)
Bulgaria - 478€ - +13% (VAT 20%)
Russia - 495€ - -70% (VAT 20%)
Montenegro - 512€ - +13% (VAT 21%)
Romania - 600€ - +13% (VAT 19%)
.
.
.
Netherlands - 2152€ - +13% (VAT 21%)
Belgium - 2170€ - +13% (VAT 21%)
France - 2225€ - +13% (VAT 20%)
Germany - 2315€ - +13% (VAT 19%)
.
.
.
Luxembourg - 3416€ - +13% (VAT 17%)
Post edited March 06, 2019 by Cavalary
Posted March 06, 2019
Well, while i understand the reasoning behind it, and am gratefull for the honesty and transparency, i must also be honest and say i am dissapointed!
I see it as yet another feature that gets stripped away resulting on a game store, ever less and less unique.

I can only hope that publishers and developers start pricing things fair on their own(something that i sadly doubt is gonna happen soon).

Anyways, one has to do what one has to do to stay afloat in the market i guess, best of lucks.
Posted March 06, 2019
high rated
I got a better one - meet RiME.

Currently, with GOG using these exchange rates, the regional pricing scheme is as following:

$39,69 +32,3% regCZ, regDE, regIT
$39,66 +32,2% DK
$38,19 +27,3% GB
$30,01 +0,1% CA
$29,99 base
29.99$ 0% UA, regUZ
$29,05 -3,1% CH
$28,59 -4,7% PL
$26,23 -12,5% AU, NZ
$23,52 -21,6% NO
$22,19 -26,0% SE
$14,50 -51,7% regAR, BR
$12,89 -57,0% CN
$7,45 -75,2% RU

Glossary:
regCZ: Czech Republic (CZ), Hungary (HU), Slovakia (SK)
regDE: Germany (DE), Andorra (AD), Austria (AT), Belgium (BE), Finland (FI), France (FR), Ireland (IE), Iceland (IS), Liechtenstein (LI), Luxembourg (LU), Malta (MT), Monaco (MC), Netherlands (NL), San Marino (SM)
regIT: Italy (IT), Cyprus (CY), Spain (ES), Greece (GR), Portugal (PT)
regUZ: Uzbekistan (UZ), Armenia (AM), Azerbaijan (AZ), Belarus (BY), Kyrgyzstan (KG), Kazakhstan (KZ), Moldova, Republic of (MD), Tajikistan (TJ), Turkmenistan (TM)
regAR: Argentina (AR), Bolivia, Plurinational State of (BO), Chile (CL), Colombia (CO), Costa Rica (CR), Dominican Republic (DO), Ecuador (EC), Guatemala (GT), Honduras (HN), Haiti (HT), Mexico (MX), Panama (PA), Peru (PE), Puerto Rico (PR), Nicaragua (NI), Paraguay (PY), El Salvador (SV), Uruguay (UY)

Note 1: On release (June 16, 2017), regUZ and UA were getting a regional discount of 40%, but lost it ten months later and are since charged the US base price.

Note 2: regRO (Romania (RO), Bulgaria (BG), Estonia (EE), Croatia (HR), Lithuania (LT), Latvia (LV), Slovenia (SI)) and regRS (Serbia (RS), Montenegro (ME), Holy See (Vatican City State) (VA)) that are usually lumped together with regCZ, regDE, regIT are charged the US base price.

Note 3: Of the regions/countries getting a price hike, the Czech Republic (CZ) and Hungary (HU) don't use the Euro as their currency, and that the highest VAT is 27% (in Hungary).

Note 4: For the not_being/belonging_to_regAR, BR, CN or RU** that get a regional discount, VAT is as following:
Switzerland (CH): 7.7%
Australia (AU): 10%
New Zealand (NZ): 13%
United Kingdom (UK): 20%
Poland (PL): 23%
Norway (NO), Sweden (SE): 25%

** A quick look up online says that just about every one of those countries has some sort of VAT/consumption tax, but since they always get a regional discount, I'm a tad too lazy to check how they're applied.

And that's not an isolated case - let's look at Jalopy:

$20,03 +33,6% DK
$19,14 +27,7% SE
$17,01 +13,5% regCZ, regDE, regIT, regregRO, regRS
$15,03 +0,3% CH
$14,99 base
$14,29 -4,7% PL
$14,00 -6,6% GB
$12,75 -14,9% CA
$12,35 -17,6% AU, NZ
$11,77 -21,5% NO
$7,26 -51,6% regAR, BR
$7,05 -53,0% CN
$5,90 -60,6% RU, UA, regUZ

And then look at Raiden V: Director’s Cut:

$52,00 +48,6% GB
$35,01 +0,1% SE
$34,99 base
$34,04 -2,7% DK
$34,00 -2,8% regCZ, regDE, regIT, regregRO, regRS
$33,33 -4,7% PL
$33,02 -5,6% CH
$30,01 -14,2% CA
$29,84 -14,7% AU, NZ
$29,14 -16,7% NO
$17,09 -51,2% regAR, BR
$16,49 -52,9% UA, regUZ
$15,09 -56,9% CN
$9,27 -73,5% RU

Now, anyone, especially those talking about taxes and/or strong(er)/weak(er) (than the US) economies, or even about $1=1€ regional pricing and exchange rates costs, willing to claim/argue with a straight face that the current regional pricing model isn't arbitrary?

EDIT: and of course the broken forum messes up links, so let's try this again.
Post edited March 06, 2019 by HypersomniacLive
Posted March 06, 2019
high rated
And since we're on the subject:
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GOG.com: [...]

We came up with Fair Price Package (FPP) as a way to make up the price difference between various countries. Some games on GOG.COM have regional pricing, meaning the price of the same game in one place can be higher compared to its price in North America. [...]
[emphasis added]

I just noticed this. Some games? Some?? Really, GOG?

Out of a total of 2818 titles currently in the catalogue (that's excluding free and upcoming ones with no price set), a grand total of 52 are flat priced. Let me repeat that - 52 (fifty two). That's a meagre 1.85% of the catalogue.

An additional 1278 titles have only regional discounts, i.e. no region is getting a price hike. That's 45.35% of the catalogue.

This all means that 1488 titles are charged with a regional price hike in one or more regions. 1488 represents 52.80% of the catalogue.

In what world is over 50% of the catalogue some games?
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GOG.com: On March 31st we are going to discontinue the Fair Price Package program. Let us explain the reasoning behind this decision.

[...]

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss. [...]
[emphasis added]

Well, perhaps if you didn't make mistakes like this one (end of post) [emphasis added]:
Tropico 5: Complete Collection

>>> $77.69 instead of $34.99 in CH
>>> $76.79 instead of $34.99 in PL
>>> $68.69 instead of $34.99 in CA
[...]
which led to this sort of FPP for ten months - let that sink in, ten months, as that's how long it took whoever's tasked with entering prices or whoever supervises them to notice and amend the mistake [emphasis added]:
>>> $44.64 instead of $34.99 in PL
>>> $41.70 instead of $34.99 in NO
>>> $40.55 instead of $34.99 in regCZ, regDE, DK, regIT, regRO, regRS, SK
>>> $34.99 (base) CA
>>> $38.47 instead of $34.99 in SE
>>> $35.65 instead of $34.99 in CH
[...]
or if this sort of mistake weren't made, and didn't take more than seven months (yep, seven months) and a heads up from the users, to be corrected:
Pricing changed for River City Ransom: Underground OST [DLC]

>>> Price changed from $0.90 to $7.45 in SE
then perhaps things wouldn't look/be so bad that the FPP is deemed unviable. Perhaps.
Posted March 06, 2019
*slow clap*
Posted March 06, 2019
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HypersomniacLive: RIME... $39,69 +32,3% regCZ, regDE, regIT
Rime costs €34.99, GOG currently taking a cut of 30%, that's €10.50.
Of those the FPP gives back €8.50 leaving €2.00 of turnover for GOG. That's effectively a 5.7% cut for GOG - not even Epic can afford to go that low.
Now that GOG said they want to lower their own cut, we don't know to how much. If we assume 20% the cut for Rime would be €7.00 - meaning with the FPP still in place GOG would make a loss of €1.50 for each sold game in those regions.

Regarding the regional prices itself let's not forget that it was the publishers who demanded those and who set (errors aside) the regional prices. I don't think GOG has a lot of say in that. So if people think a game is ridiculously overprices in their region compared to others, they should direct their anger at the publisher - not GOG.

I sometimes suspect some pubs use GOG as a playground or field of experimentation for prices, while they play it safe on Steam...
Posted March 06, 2019
I understand you lose a lot of money with FPP but I thought above all we follow certain ideals and that's more important than some money. If you can't afford FPP, curate different games from different developers that want to offer their game at various currencies and prices. Let them pay for their own mistake of not giving a penny for their players living outside NA or EU. I'm aware of certain indie studios that do so themselves, why don't you pull in your own way some strings? But I guess losing part of the games in GOG and part of the market is more important right now, isn't it? So don't play the victim here. You chose this; GOG being profitable (to what extent I can't know) to GOG being what it was built for. If you can't curate according to your ideals why should the people buy on GOG and not just go back to where their biggest part of their library already is? You know what I'm talking about. It's sad to see your favourite market losing its identity slowly. Another dream crashed for money.

I know I'm being melodramatic here but that's the truth.
Posted March 06, 2019
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Acriz: We have legions of lawyers who actually prosecute people who pirate things. Their cease and desist letters are usually bundled with 1000-2000€ fines in lawyer fees. Or they drag you in front of a court, which can get you actual jail time.
How are they identifying the pirates, exactly? Those who do get identified must not be very smart, as standard run-of-the-mill techniques would not catch a pirate who has the slightest clue of what they are doing.

And I'm pretty sure it's not possible for a non-government agency to "fine" anyone. Letters that copyright trolls send to potential, alleged copyright infringers with unjust demands for payment are pretty much akin to extortion.
Posted March 06, 2019
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elcook: Be patient, just a bit, please.
No, it's not about GOG Direct to Account - we're literally informing about it all GOG users with the User Agreement update email.
Still patiently waiting. :P
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionConclusion of the Fair Price Package program(910 posts)(910 posts)
(910 posts)