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General discussionComing Soon: Thimbleweed Park(134 posts)(134 posts)
(134 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 10, 2017
A night to remember.

<span class="bold">Thimbleweed Park</span>, a delightfully surreal point & click adventure by the creators of Monkey Island and Maniac Mansion, is coming soon, DRM-free on GOG.com!

Five high-functioning weirdos find themselves tied together by the freaky secrets of a forgotten town. At the center of it all lies a dead body that no one seems to really care about. And yet, unbeknownst to them, it will become the catalyst for a fateful night full of bizarre events, brain-twisting puzzles, and weaponised sarcasm.


https://www.youtube.com/embed/djNJan3zQ_Y
Post edited March 30, 2017 by maladr0Id
Posted March 12, 2017
Game is kinda interesting, but I didn't like the art style back then and I really don't like it now.

As Star Trek was brought up, I feel towards this pixel-question like this:
TOS aliens are pretty cringeworthy nowadays, at least in my opinion (I'm actually re-watching the first season atm). It's the equivalent of 320x200. You need much imagination, but back then it was kinda cool. Still, I don't think people would have rejected better costumes/masks. I think/hope this is along the lines what AlienMind wants to get across.

Good pixel art, like some Wadjet Eyes games, is more like Star Trek in the 90s - stuff looked much better but you can still see the cheap uniform and the edge of the wigs. It gets the job done. I doubt that many people wanted it to go back to it's ugly low budget roots. (although with hardcore fans you never know :P)

And then there's the newest generation, all pretty shiny and 3D etc. And some people will prefer this, other will prefer the 90s series. Sometimes the content suffers for all the bling bling.

But going back TOS/320x200 ... I think that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.


...I'll probably buy it somewhen, because P'n'C, but it will take it's time.
Post edited March 12, 2017 by Ashnak
Posted March 12, 2017
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Leroux: But as for reaching a majority audience, that sounds more like wishful thinking to me. I'm also sceptical about the mobile audience and the PC audience being two entirely different groups.
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but as a fan I hope for the best.
This may be just guesswork but I imagine both PC and console gamers a smaller group than casual gamers on mobile platforms.
Of course everyone in the first two groups is likely to game on mobile too, but it's about reaching all those other mobile gamers.

I've found this:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/22/mobile-game-revenue-to-pass-console-pc-for-first-time.html
(note this is about revenue, I'd assume a lower average price for mobile games i.e. more purchases but it's hard to say with all those in-app purchases of so called "free-to-play" games)
Posted March 12, 2017
Hmm... Will keep an eye for reviews and future sales.

I want to see if there's actually something to sell the game or if it's just going "Hey look! We swear! That makes us edgy, right?"

I do like the genre, though, so Wishlisted.
Posted March 12, 2017
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PixelBoy: ...
I would argue that for cartoon style graphics creating it in HD is actually faster, as you can take a Wacom tablet and start creating. In low resolution/pixelarts you actually end up with very strange looking creations if you try to do it like that.

I even have some experience in this, as I once scanned a company logo to a very low resolution handheld screen. After scanning you had to manually move pixels around to make it look right. (It didn't exactly help that the device didn't have square pixels, but ones where Y was bigger than X for each pixel...)
True. But on the other hand cartoon style graphics aren't detailed. Low-res graphics may not be actually detailed but good artists can make them look super detailed (which is not possible in HD unless adding those actual details).

I sometimes have to resize stuff like icons and I'm afraid I will never become a good pixel artist :-)

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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: I might add that there are also important improvements worth mentioning, first and foremost the ability to actually buy this games again (and secondly that most of them have classic mode included...).
Also being able to play MI1 and MI2 with those now known voices was nice.
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PixelBoy: You don't need a remake to sell an old game. You only need game files and ScummVM.
Ironically enough, if you want to have the original MI1 graphics with voiceovers, you still need ScummVM (or DosBox) and Ultimate Edition fan patch, as that feature was not in the remake version.
This only works for games actually supported by ScummVM or DOSBox (which are quite a lot though).
Problem was and still is games not being available for purchase need to be "found" (examples: Grim Fandango [done], Full Throttle [soon], MI3 [WTF?]).
P.S.: Why the hell should I ever play MI1 without Ulitmate Edition patch? This would be crazy!

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PixelBoy: ...
I never run DosBox full screen, ...
I love big pixels! (having window borders or other programs visible on the same screen sounds horrible to me, brr :-)
Post edited March 12, 2017 by Sir_Kill_A_Lot
Posted March 12, 2017
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: Maybe it is wishful thinking, but as a fan I hope for the best.
This may be just guesswork but I imagine both PC and console gamers a smaller group than casual gamers on mobile platforms.
Of course everyone in the first two groups is likely to game on mobile too, but it's about reaching all those other mobile gamers.

I've found this:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/22/mobile-game-revenue-to-pass-console-pc-for-first-time.html
(note this is about revenue, I'd assume a lower average price for mobile games i.e. more purchases but it's hard to say with all those in-app purchases of so called "free-to-play" games)
Well, yes. But it doesn't automatically follow that this huge group of mobile gamers will embrace p&c adventure games as their favorite genre and that the huge revenue will come from these games. Casual or not, adventure games still require a totally different kind of investment than Match-3 games, Angry Birds, Pokemon Go or whatever is most popular on mobile device. There are and will be mobile gamers who enjoy adventure games, but I can't imagine that the genre will become much more popular among casual/mobile/former non- gamers than it is among PC players now (and it still is a niche genre on PC). But who knows.
Post edited March 12, 2017 by Leroux
Posted March 12, 2017
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Ashnak: Good pixel art, like some Wadjet Eyes games, is more like Star Trek in the 90s - stuff looked much better but you can still see the cheap uniform and the edge of the wigs. It gets the job done. I doubt that many people wanted it to go back to it's ugly low budget roots. (although with hardcore fans you never know :P)
Well personally I could watch TOS over and over again, but I couldn't even finish watching Enterprise. After I went to see the reboot movie and got ripped off, I gave up on all modern incarnations of Star Trek, even though I'm a life long fan. Fortunately I can still enjoy TOS & TNG on DVD.


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Ashnak: But going back TOS/320x200 ... I think that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.
Here's what the doctor (McCoy) ordered:
http://www.gog.com/game/star_trek_25th_anniversary
http://www.gog.com/game/star_trek_judgment_rites

;-)


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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: This may be just guesswork but I imagine both PC and console gamers a smaller group than casual gamers on mobile platforms.
Of course everyone in the first two groups is likely to game on mobile too, but it's about reaching all those other mobile gamers.

I've found this:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/22/mobile-game-revenue-to-pass-console-pc-for-first-time.html
(note this is about revenue, I'd assume a lower average price for mobile games i.e. more purchases but it's hard to say with all those in-app purchases of so called "free-to-play" games)
Yes, mobile games are cheaper or free, but they generate a lot of revenue due to large amount of small in-game purchases. Mobile games are designed so that there will be a point where you have to use money in order to progress in the game.
For instance in Pokémon GO I could play for free until they released the second wave of creatures, but then I had to buy more inventory space. I don't mind paying, because it's a fun game to motivate walking exercise, but I hate to be forced into "pay if you wanna play" situation.

Of course because there is a general price line for mobile games, also mobile adventures are priced differently. Last time I checked, the latest Broken Sword was 19,99 € for PC but 4,99 € for Android (no discounts on either).

I rarely buy mobile games, so I don't know if that's an exceptional price or not, but I would guess it's kind of average.
Posted March 13, 2017
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Leroux: Well, yes. But it doesn't automatically follow that this huge group of mobile gamers will embrace p&c adventure games as their favorite genre and that the huge revenue will come from these games. Casual or not, adventure games still require a totally different kind of investment than Match-3 games, Angry Birds, Pokemon Go or whatever is most popular on mobile device. There are and will be mobile gamers who enjoy adventure games, but I can't imagine that the genre will become much more popular among casual/mobile/former non- gamers than it is among PC players now (and it still is a niche genre on PC). But who knows.
Yes, you are pessimistic, let me dream :-)

But I do think this type of game is suited quite well for mobile devices.
Posted March 13, 2017
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: But I do think this type of game is suited quite well for mobile devices.
That's something we can agree on. :)
Posted March 13, 2017
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: But I do think this type of game is suited quite well for mobile devices.
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Leroux: That's something we can agree on. :)
Hey, you have removed part of the quote :D

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Ashnak: But going back TOS/320x200 ... I think that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.
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PixelBoy: Here's what the doctor (McCoy) ordered:
http://www.gog.com/game/star_trek_25th_anniversary
http://www.gog.com/game/star_trek_judgment_rites
Good prescription! Take two every day!

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PixelBoy: Yes, mobile games are cheaper or free, but they generate a lot of revenue due to large amount of small in-game purchases. Mobile games are designed so that there will be a point where you have to use money in order to progress in the game.
For instance in Pokémon GO I could play for free until they released the second wave of creatures, but then I had to buy more inventory space. I don't mind paying, because it's a fun game to motivate walking exercise, but I hate to be forced into "pay if you wanna play" situation.

Of course because there is a general price line for mobile games, also mobile adventures are priced differently. Last time I checked, the latest Broken Sword was 19,99 € for PC but 4,99 € for Android (no discounts on either).
Yes it will have to be priced differently. It probably even needs to be different for iOS (they pay more of course) and Android market.
Games designed with in-app purchases (or DLCs) in mind suck :-(
You can do this stuff right but there are so many horrible examples out there (and some still successful).

TWP (back to the topic, yeah!) or typical adventure games in general aren't suitable for in-app purchases, they only have their one-time payments or could use an episodic format.
Post edited March 13, 2017 by Sir_Kill_A_Lot
Posted March 13, 2017
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Leroux: That's something we can agree on. :)
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: Hey, you have removed part of the quote :D
Ok, I'll let you dream as well, if that's what you meant. ;)
Posted March 13, 2017
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: Hey, you have removed part of the quote :D
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Leroux: Ok, I'll let you dream as well, if that's what you meant. ;)
Yeah..., right :)
Posted March 13, 2017
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Sir_Kill_A_Lot: TWP (back to the topic, yeah!) or typical adventure games in general aren't suitable for in-app purchases, they only have their one-time payments or could use an episodic format.
Everything can be monetized with a little bit of twisted creativity.

For instance, if Monkey Island was remade as a mobile version, you could build the sword fighting part so that you walk around and try to learn new insults with a very limited success rate. To speed things up, you could purchase insults 99 cents per insult, or a collection of 15 insults for a bargain price of 9.99 euros/dollars.

Every locked door scenario could have a cheat mode "tip the doorman to get in" for those who don't want to spend time finding the key.

I really hope no adventure game ever goes this route, but just to give an example there, if someone ever wants to implement in-game purchases, it can be done quite easily.
Posted March 13, 2017
low rated
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Midoryu: Maybe I will watch someone playing it to make up my mind. Coming March, 30th. Could take a while.
Not necessarily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqDBfg0FWI0

Would be better if Gronkh's English was better, but... Ron is making up for it. :)

Concerning comfort functions, it's clear that Ron isn't a fan of pixel hunting. Judging from his blog quote, it's not just the player's duty to make an effort at discovery, but also the designer's duty to make items you can interact with stand out more. A hotspot button is a comfort function that Ron doesn't seem to like (I like hotspot buttons. But that's me), but a few minutes of gameplay make clear enough that there are tons of modern amenities in this game that set it apart from the 30 year old Scumm chunkers. I mean, it doesn't just scroll giant-pixel-by-giant-pixel like Maniac Mansion did, it scrolls smoothly, the resolution is in fact higher, there are in fact more colors, the game is fully voiced, there's great recorded instead of MIDI music, etc.

...oh. And there's an option in the menu to roll off the toilet paper under instead of over.
http://www.pcgamer.com/thimbleweed-park-toilet-paper-gets-a-reversible-overunder-menu-option/

Honestly, what more comfort options could you ever want in a game. Seriously. :)
Post edited March 13, 2017 by Vainamoinen
Posted March 13, 2017
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PixelBoy: I really hope no adventure game ever goes this route, but just to give an HORRIBLE, BAD INFLUENCING example there...
OMG, 99c per insult! Don't give people such horrible ideas!
:-)

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Vainamoinen: ... but a few minutes of gameplay make clear enough that there are tons of modern amenities in this game that set it apart from the 30 year old Scumm chunkers. I mean, it doesn't just scroll giant-pixel-by-giant-pixel like Maniac Mansion did, it scrolls smoothly, the resolution is in fact higher, there are in fact more colors, the game is fully voiced, there's great recorded instead of MIDI music, etc.
This is true.

The original vision was much more conservative/oldschool, here is a comparison screenshot (source).
Although they do use dithering as an artistic choice they don't really restrict themselves to an actual colour palette. Also after applying effects like dynamic lighting they end up using all colours.

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Vainamoinen: ...oh. And there's an option in the menu to roll off the toilet paper under instead of over.
http://www.pcgamer.com/thimbleweed-park-toilet-paper-gets-a-reversible-overunder-menu-option/
That was a matter of international affairs. Luckily it could be remedied and no one got hurt.
This is the only setting which matters: Screenshot from demo version
Post edited March 13, 2017 by Sir_Kill_A_Lot
Posted March 13, 2017
Fantastic. Best managed kickstarter i ever partook in. So glad i backed this. The way they ran this project, this should be a fantastic old-school game.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionComing Soon: Thimbleweed Park(134 posts)(134 posts)
(134 posts)