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General discussionComing soon: Factorio: Space Age(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 14, 2024
If you enjoyed Factorio, we have some great news for you – Factorio: Space Age is coming soon on GOG!

Factorio: Space Age continues the player's journey after launching rockets into space. Discover new worlds with unique challenges, exploit their novel resources for advanced technological gains, and manage your fleet of interplanetary space platforms.

Wishlist it now!
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Well, I haven’t played the game yet (or Kingmaker, although I have purchased both here) but I was under the impression that they are like Baldur’s Gate ? In fact, if they’re not, then I may regret buying them….

But it’s the “business model” that I object to. Don’t string out the completion of a game over ten years or so …. it’s just such an awful precedent. Especially when the games being released in this way are not all that good anyway.
Not sure what Factorio has in common with Baldur's gate / Kingmaker? They are worlds apart.

Also, you mentioned that it was on your wishlist, switched to blacklist because reasons. Now you say you bought it and didn't try it?

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Theoclymenus: P.S. Factorio is not a “genre-creating” game. That sounds like an enormous exaggeration.
Ok, I didn't research the genre-defining part too hard. I just can't name any similar games that are older. There are couple newer (satisfactory, dyson sphere program...), but with mixed results. 3D always adds too much bloat that distracts from the main fun. Factorio is still a king after all that time. (*)

* of course it's just personal opinion
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Well, I haven’t played the game yet (or Kingmaker, although I have purchased both here) but I was under the impression that they are like Baldur’s Gate ? In fact, if they’re not, then I may regret buying them….

But it’s the “business model” that I object to. Don’t string out the completion of a game over ten years or so …. it’s just such an awful precedent. Especially when the games being released in this way are not all that good anyway.
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huan: Not sure what Factorio has in common with Baldur's gate / Kingmaker? They are worlds apart.

Also, you mentioned that it was on your wishlist, switched to blacklist because reasons. Now you say you bought it and didn't try it?

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Theoclymenus: P.S. Factorio is not a “genre-creating” game. That sounds like an enormous exaggeration.
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huan: Ok, I didn't research the genre-defining part too hard. I just can't name any similar games that are older. There are couple newer (satisfactory, dyson sphere program...), but with mixed results. 3D always adds too much bloat that distracts from the main fun. Factorio is still a king after all that time. (*)

* of course it's just personal opinion
Wow, I don’t know exactly what happened to my previous replies there ! I was posting about Pathfinder : Wrath of the Righteous on another thread. I’m really not sure what happened there !

Anyway, Factorio might be a great game but I seriously doubt that it’s “genre-defining”.

But having a policy of no discounts ever and then releasing a DLC after 8 years - I’m sorry, it just makes me laugh. It’s just so mean-spirited.
Post edited October 14, 2024 by Theoclymenus
Posted October 14, 2024
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Palestine: Indeed, it is downloadable content.

Also, with regard to the pricing of the main game, I share your frustrations.
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Theoclymenus: This game has been on my wishlist since it was released. It’s now on my BLACKLIST (games never to be bought). Just greed, greed and greed. No discount ever, though far superior games have been sold at a discount for decades. And then they release a DLC after 8 years to make even more money out of it. Just f*ck them, honestly. I am so sick of these companies holding sway in what is supposed to be a fun pastime - for kids as well as adults.
Factorio has been on sold with a discount, I bought it at a discount. It may not be now, so wait for a sale.
Posted October 14, 2024
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MrZeno: Factorio has been on sold with a discount, I bought it at a discount. It may not be now, so wait for a sale.
That was normal price before full release, it won't return.
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Anyway, Factorio might be a great game but I seriously doubt that it’s “genre-defining”.
It is. Do a search for "Factorio-like games" and you get lots of results. That's what genre-defining is.
But having a policy of no discounts ever and then releasing a DLC after 8 years - I’m sorry, it just makes me laugh. It’s just so mean-spirited.
Er, no. You're exhibiting some pretty severe entitlement there. You're not entitled to a discount. In marketing terms, if you can sell a sufficient number of copies without discounting, you should. Discounting is usually a last resort after you've run out of other options. The gaming market has been corrupted by constant sales that this sense of entitlement has become rampant and it's not very healthy,

Also, there's nothing wrong with releasing DLC after 8 years; that's a really bizarre and weird claim. Would you rather they release DLC after 8 days? Now that would be suspicious. Or are you one of those people who thinks games just magically appear out of thin air, and don't require thousands of hours of work? Are you going to work at your job for years on end for free? No? I didn't think so.

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MrZeno: Factorio has been on sold with a discount, I bought it at a discount. It may not be now, so wait for a sale.
No it hasn't, and no you didn't. The only thing the price has ever done is increase. It was $20 during early access, then $30, then $35 a couple years ago.
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Anyway, Factorio might be a great game but I seriously doubt that it’s “genre-defining”.
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eric5h5: It is. Do a search for "Factorio-like games" and you get lots of results. That's what genre-defining is.

But having a policy of no discounts ever and then releasing a DLC after 8 years - I’m sorry, it just makes me laugh. It’s just so mean-spirited.
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eric5h5: Er, no. You're exhibiting some pretty severe entitlement there. You're not entitled to a discount. In marketing terms, if you can sell a sufficient number of copies without discounting, you should. Discounting is usually a last resort after you've run out of other options. The gaming market has been corrupted by constant sales that this sense of entitlement has become rampant and it's not very healthy,

Also, there's nothing wrong with releasing DLC after 8 years; that's a really bizarre and weird claim. Would you rather they release DLC after 8 days? Now that would be suspicious. Or are you one of those people who thinks games just magically appear out of thin air, and don't require thousands of hours of work? Are you going to work at your job for years on end for free? No? I didn't think so.

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MrZeno: Factorio has been on sold with a discount, I bought it at a discount. It may not be now, so wait for a sale.
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eric5h5: No it hasn't, and no you didn't. The only thing the price has ever done is increase. It was $20 during early access, then $30, then $35 a couple years ago.
Hmmm… the very modern buzz-word “entitlement” and its meaning : this could be a good conversation. Your interpretation of it is a very specific one, if I may say. My understanding of it is very different. It doesn’t originally have anything whatsoever to do with attitudinal relationships between companies and customers, it is an ENGLISH word and it has to do with English football supporters. It means “spoilt”, basically. It means, “expecting always to win, like a spoilt brat”. In England, the word “entitlement” has absolutely nothing to do with any relationship between customer and company.

As for Factorio being genre-defining : I never played it because I never bought it. I never bought it because they would never discount it. But I seriously doubt that it is “genre-defining”. In any case, even if it truly is “genre-defining”, do you really think that this justifies a “no discount ever” policy ?
Post edited October 14, 2024 by Theoclymenus
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Hmmm… the very modern buzz-word “entitlement” and its meaning : this could be a good conversation. Your interpretation of it is a very specific one, if I may say. My understanding of it is very different. It doesn’t originally have anything whatsoever to do with attitudinal relationships between companies and customers, it is an ENGLISH word and it has to do with English football supporters. It means “spoilt”, basically. It means, “expecting always to win, like a spoilt brat”. In England, the word “entitlement” has absolutely nothing to do with any relationship between customer and company.

As for Factorio being genre-defining : I never played it because I never bought it. I never bought it because they would never discount it. But I seriously doubt that it is “genre-defining”.
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Theoclymenus: In any case, even if it truly is “genre-defining”, do you really think that this justifies a “no discount ever” policy ?
I think that authors don't have to justify their price policy to customers. They just set it, and if they set it wrong, they get no sales. Discount is just one of the tools to improve sales and boost revenue through quantity. If they are satisfied with their revenue at full price, they would be silly to do discounts "just because".

Expecting otherwise is exactly that entitlement that you tried to downplay with "how it was originally meant". Language evolves and regardless of origins, that childish "must have my win" is way broader than just football. And everyone understands what it means in context of customer relationship. Even you demonstrated that you understand the concept just fine, and that's what is important in conversation. If you consider 15+ years to be "modern buzzword" then so be it. Doesn't change the outcome.

Not many developers could pull that off in todays bratty spoiled world. Factorio devs could, good for them. End of story. It's entertainment. Luxury, not a bread and basic human need.
Post edited October 14, 2024 by huan
Posted October 14, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Hmmm… the very modern buzz-word “entitlement” and its meaning : this could be a good conversation. Your interpretation of it is a very specific one, if I may say. My understanding of it is very different. It doesn’t originally have anything whatsoever to do with attitudinal relationships between companies and customers, it is an ENGLISH word and it has to do with English football supporters. It means “spoilt”, basically. It means, “expecting always to win, like a spoilt brat”. In England, the word “entitlement” has absolutely nothing to do with any relationship between customer and company.

As for Factorio being genre-defining : I never played it because I never bought it. I never bought it because they would never discount it. But I seriously doubt that it is “genre-defining”.
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huan:
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Theoclymenus: In any case, even if it truly is “genre-defining”, do you really think that this justifies a “no discount ever” policy ?
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huan: I think that authors don't have to justify their price policy to customers. They just set it, and if they set it wrong, they get no sales. Discount is just one of the tools to improve sales and boost revenue through quantity. If they are satisfied with their revenue at full price, they would be silly to do discounts "just because".

Expecting otherwise is exactly that entitlement that you tried to downplay with "how it was originally meant". Language evolves and regardless of origins, that childish "must have my win" is way broader than just football. And everyone understands what it means in context of customer relationship. Even you demonstrated that you understand the concept just fine, and that's what is important in conversation. If you consider 15+ years to be "modern buzzword" then so be it. Doesn't change the outcome.

Not many developers could pull that off in todays bratty spoiled world. Factorio devs could, good for them. End of story. It's entertainment. Luxury, not a bread and basic human need.
I’m sorry, but don’t please misuse words, it’s one of my pet hates. Do NOT use the word “entitlement” to refer to some imaginary (and incredibly creepy) corporate-friendly dysfunctional relationship between a company and its customers. It does NOT have that meaning. That is almost the OPPOSITE of the original meaning (well not original really, but definitely in usage WAY before this dreadful interpretation arose) .

It means (in English football) : you think you have a divine right to win everything. As such, we think you are absolute f*cking arseh*les. . It is derogatory, but it has absolutely ZERO to do with companies and their customers. That’s just some weird, mischievous, later interpretation of the term by EXACTLY the kind of arseh*les it was supposed to refer to. A greedy corporation can NEVER shout “entitlement” : that is absolutely hilarious !
Posted October 14, 2024
I would say Theoclymenus displays the traits I associate with the expression "entitlement" in this relationship to the letter.

That said, I would be a much happier person if more companies took Wube's approach. Not overpriced most of the time, compensated by short and urgent phases of underpriced, just a fair price all the time. Of course this is much easier if you have a truly awesome product that does not rely on quickly fading graphical attraction.

The game would have been worth its current price during the (cheaper) early access I bought it in. Alone on my experience since I bought it, I would have purchased the expansion immediately. I also kept reading their Friday Factorio Facts though, so I'm doubly excited for the expansion.
Posted October 14, 2024
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BitMaster_1980: I would say Theoclymenus displays the traits I associate with the expression "entitlement" in this relationship to the letter.

That said, I would be a much happier person if more companies took Wube's approach. Not overpriced most of the time, compensated by short and urgent phases of underpriced, just a fair price all the time. Of course this is much easier if you have a truly awesome product that does not rely on quickly fading graphical attraction.

The game would have been worth its current price during the (cheaper) early access I bought it in. Alone on my experience since I bought it, I would have purchased the expansion immediately. I also kept reading their Friday Factorio Facts though, so I'm doubly excited for the expansion.
I’m finding you really quite hard to understand, on a human level. Do you want to “own” your games (for as long as you live at least), or do you want to keep paying some company or other X amount of money to keep playing your games ? Are you happy to rent games ! Pay for games over a period of 10-15 years ?

Sorry, am I being “entitled” ?
Posted October 15, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Hmmm… the very modern buzz-word “entitlement” and its meaning : this could be a good conversation. Your interpretation of it is a very specific one, if I may say. My understanding of it is very different. It doesn’t originally have anything whatsoever to do with attitudinal relationships between companies and customers, it is an ENGLISH word and it has to do with English football supporters. It means “spoilt”, basically. It means, “expecting always to win, like a spoilt brat”. In England, the word “entitlement” has absolutely nothing to do with any relationship between customer and company.
Sigh. Football supporters? Really? It means you expect stuff to be given to you just because you want it and think you "deserve" it even though you did nothing to warrant that. This total weirdness about "relationships between customers and companies" is just something you made up for unknown but probably weird reasons. Do you not have access to a dictionary?
But I seriously doubt that it is “genre-defining”.
I just showed you that it objectively is. It doesn't matter what you doubt.
In any case, even if it truly is “genre-defining”, do you really think that this justifies a “no discount ever” policy ?
It's not relevant. And, it doesn't need to be "justified". Again with the entitlement.
Post edited October 15, 2024 by eric5h5
Posted October 15, 2024
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Theoclymenus: Hmmm… the very modern buzz-word “entitlement” and its meaning : this could be a good conversation. Your interpretation of it is a very specific one, if I may say. My understanding of it is very different. It doesn’t originally have anything whatsoever to do with attitudinal relationships between companies and customers, it is an ENGLISH word and it has to do with English football supporters. It means “spoilt”, basically. It means, “expecting always to win, like a spoilt brat”. In England, the word “entitlement” has absolutely nothing to do with any relationship between customer and company.
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eric5h5: Sigh. Football supporters? Really? It means you expect stuff to be given to you just because you want it and think you "deserve" it even though you did nothing to warrant that. This total weirdness about "relationships between customers and companies" is just something you made up for unknown but probably weird reasons. Do you not have access to a dictionary?

But I seriously doubt that it is “genre-defining”.
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eric5h5: I just showed you that it objectively is. It doesn't matter what you doubt.

In any case, even if it truly is “genre-defining”, do you really think that this justifies a “no discount ever” policy ?
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eric5h5: It's not relevant. And, it doesn't need to be "justified". Again with the entitlement.
No, it doesn’t mean what you think it means. The way you (and other Americans) use this word is just so wrong. It means that you are a spoilt little child and, as such a little brat, you feel that the outcome must go your way - or else you’ll cry, like the little crybaby you really are. It’s a very derogatory term. It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with some shitty, greedy corporation preaching “truth” to the customers it is trying to use confidence tricks on. You seem to only be acquainted with the very recently Americanised interpretation of the meaning of this phrase.
Post edited October 15, 2024 by Theoclymenus
Posted October 15, 2024
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Theoclymenus: [...]
It means (in English football) : you think you have a divine right to win everything. As such, we think you are absolute f*cking arseh*les. . It is derogatory, but it has absolutely ZERO to do with companies and their customers. That’s just some weird, mischievous, later interpretation of the term by EXACTLY the kind of arseh*les it was supposed to refer to. A greedy corporation can NEVER shout “entitlement” : that is absolutely hilarious !
If you are going to play this card, then at least do it right. Your definition of "entitlement" is wrong here. In the English language it does not mean "win" or have anything to with "devine right" - neither of these terms shows up in any definition of "entitlement", Oxford English Dictonrary have three UK meanings for the word (ignoring the USA meanings), which are

1 - "The fact of having a right to something."
2 - "The amount to which a person has a right."
3 - "The belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment."

SInce English language is an imprecise and context dependant language (i.e. the meaning of a word changes depending on the context in which it is used), in the context it is used here indicates the third meaning. So "entitlement" here is refereing to a supposed belife that (in this case) you have desrving a special treatment, in other words that you belive you are deserving a discount on this product.

There is not even anything in the etymology of the word that indicates "win" nor "devine" within the word. It is a compond word consiting of the verb "entitle" and the suffix "-ment". "Entitle" originally meant to give a chapter in a book a title, and the suffix "-ment" comes from Latin "mentum", which is added to a verb to indicate the result of the verb. So "Entitlement" then becomes the title that was given in the book.

Hope that clears it up.
Post edited October 15, 2024 by amok
Posted October 15, 2024
Do not get fooled, if relevant at all to you, (interstellar and ~ interplanet) Space is rather empty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium#Interstellar_matter

One likely needs to take the long journey of jumping between star systems (having nothing to "eat" in between unless having a HUGE cross-section, but what safety measures of accidental hits (near light speed) with another voyaging matter?) Then harvesting the system it jumps to, likely a dire picture...
Posted October 15, 2024
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Theoclymenus: [...]
It means (in English football) : you think you have a divine right to win everything. As such, we think you are absolute f*cking arseh*les. . It is derogatory, but it has absolutely ZERO to do with companies and their customers. That’s just some weird, mischievous, later interpretation of the term by EXACTLY the kind of arseh*les it was supposed to refer to. A greedy corporation can NEVER shout “entitlement” : that is absolutely hilarious !
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amok: If you are going to play this card, then at least do it right. Your definition of "entitlement" is wrong here. In the English language it does not mean "win" or have anything to with "devine right" - neither of these terms shows up in any definition of "entitlement", Oxford English Dictonrary have three UK meanings for the word (ignoring the USA meanings), which are

1 - "The fact of having a right to something."
2 - "The amount to which a person has a right."
3 - "The belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment."

SInce English language is an imprecise and context dependant language (i.e. the meaning of a word changes depending on the context in which it is used), in the context it is used here indicates the third meaning. So "entitlement" here is refereing to a supposed belife that (in this case) you have desrving a special treatment, in other words that you belive you are deserving a discount on this product.

There is not even anything in the etymology of the word that indicates "win" nor "devine" within the word. It is a compond word consiting of the verb "entitle" and the suffix "-ment". "Entitle" originally meant to give a chapter in a book a title, and the suffix "-ment" comes from Latin "mentum", which is added to a verb to indicate the result of the verb. So "Entitlement" then becomes the title that was given in the book.

Hope that clears it up.
It has nothing do with any of that, you legalistic twit. It has to do with everyday usage. It also has nothing to do with anything as venerable as etymology. It’s just simply a usage of the word which came into existence at around the time when Manchester United dominated English football. At that time, people started using the term “entitled” to describe United fans who thought they ought to win every match and every trophy all the time.

Or maybe, because I’m a City fan (much more beautiful colours), I’m just being biased. But in any case, the “derogatory” usage of the term came from England and it had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any relationships between companies and customers. Please spare me the “lessons” in future.
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General discussionComing soon: Factorio: Space Age(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)