What I was trying to say was that knowing the English name isn't really the point, but rather that the translation automatically removed any reference to alcohol and the myth. I also intended to expand on this in a different part of my original post by pointing out that in Western games, such references to alcohol also exist and that they were never changed or removed - Dionysus or Bacchus, for one. There are also games featuring drinking and alcohol abuse, and they weren't m- or r-rated.

So I wasn't implying that Western players are incapable of acquiring Kanji - this would be utter nonsense and far from the truth. And many have at least seen 酒, either in isolation or on bottles 月桂冠純米大吟醸生酒, and know what it is and what it means. And no, there is no justification for censoring, altering, or removing parts by translators or localization experts, that's my whole point.

The Kanji haven't been censored, they have been removed and replaced by an English name, whatever it was. I would speak of censorship if there was also an Izakaya in the game, as dtgreene mentioned. In this case, you would normally find small flags with the individual Kanji on them, or a sign in front of it with 酒屋 (saya) or 酒蔵 (sakagura) pointing out that it is a place where people gather and drink sake. If they retained the Kanji in the localized version, for flavor, but changed them to 茶屋 (chaya) or 茶室 (chashitsu) and called the place Teahouse, if only to get rid of references to alcohol, this would be censorship.

Literal translation and dialects may not make a whole lot of sense, or they may get lost in translation, yet dialect words such as さぁ are still translated. In the case of Lian's dialogue, さぁ becomes Uuh,... You can as well translate a sentence without, for instance, in this one I made up just now: でもさぁ、やっぱり毎日、酒を飲むわけじゃないんだな。"But then, it's not like I drink alcohol every day." Same sentence: でも、やっぱり毎日、酒を飲むわけじゃないんだ。Same translation, maybe slightly different, But I don't drink alcohol every day. In both cases, the dialect wouldn't translate, so it doesn't matter and can as well be left out. Things become complicated when concepts such as 本音 and 建前 come into play, and things being said versus those that are implied - and usually end up as addenda to translations, as can be seen at the end of Lian's dialogue: 'Cause there's your answer.' (and I find the whole translation atrocious... even though I give it that it makes perfect sense in English, as a sentence.)

The bottom line is that even when there is no way to translate something directly, it doesn't mean that a translator can't stay true to the meaning to convey the sense in a way a foreign audience can understand.

Since you can't view the picture, here is her dialogue:

No, you do not need to "say" sorry, you need to "feel" sorry, those are 2 different words because it got a different meaning. If you "feel" sorry you will automatically become more aware of those so called boundaries and you will notice that no one got any intention to complain regarding your small "outbreaks". Simply not exorbitant enough even to care about, not any more other than giving some scent of your own fragrance.

At least you noticed some discrepancy using your own value system. Yes you can bite, not generally a issue as long as you can handle the possible "return". If not... guess think twice before trying to create some strongly scented opinions; that's all.

I did not say German adults are not allowed to buy such games; it's that they can't buy them on GOG and St. Elsewhere because a federal board and laws demand an age verification system, which only exists to protect minors and adolescents from being exposed to harmful or age-inappropriate content. While a click on 'I'm 18+' is no proof that a person is at least 18 years of age or older, it suffices to acknowledge that you are aware of the nature of its content before exposing yourself to it and making a decision to purchase such titles.

While your laws are meant to protect children from harm, online and offline, it effectively prevents you from enjoying your rights as an adult. It is always "the children" or "in the name of children," but it's affecting adults - who would otherwise have to monitor children in their guardianship and allow or disallow what they can and can't watch, play, read, or listen to. Here is the famous senate hearing of Dee Schneider to illustrate that point.

So instead of petitioning GOG to implement an age verification it can do without, organs such as your federal board and other official organs should not be able to exercise such powers when it is affecting both adult consumers and businesses in various ways, and preventing them from conducting business.

Which is pretty much idiotic if you think about it because this does not prevent those not being 18+ to do exactly the same meaning the whole "I am aware ... blabla" is useless anyway.

You are correct that the laws are also affecting adults which is problematic to say the least BUT this also primarily only happens BECAUSE stores outside of Germany cannot get bothered to invest in proper age protection. Yes, without those protections this problem would not exist in the first place but it would also not exist if digital stores who want money from German customers would also invest a bit in some proper age gating for said German customers. One could argue who is more guilty but it is a problem only partly caused by German laws.

German authorities simply think it is the lesser evil if it really protects children and they are not wrong. IF (like I said already I don't think so) certain games and certain movies are "dangerous" to minors even strong parenting won't protect them from getting harmed because they will find a way to get them without age protection so the authorities decided to make sure that they cannot be harmed that easily.

Anyway: Thank you for the link to the video. Great speech and I personally do agree. However times have changed and it's probably hard for parents to keep up what games their children are playing or what movies they are watching.

Not getting into the whole discussion here but wanted to say something about this point.

Quoting from the wiki here
"Alcohol and tobacco references as well as subtle drug references can be allocated within the E10+ rating"
(Subtle drug reference can for example be if the reference is REALLY hidden in the game, or can apply to certain potions video game characters drink)

"Use of alcohol and tobacco in T rated video games is permitted, but using hard drugs is not. Vague drug references are allowed. Brief depictions of drugs can be allocated in the T rating."
So leaving the opium in, as a "vague drug reference" (if it can be seen as vague and not a direct reference), could have resulted in a "T" rating. If the publisher decided they wanted to avoid a T rating they would have informed the translators of this decision and told them to put in something else.

A look at censored Yu-Gi-Oh! cards can give a good overview of what companies in the US change to be able to market a product to children.

The aim of a (paid) translation is to deliver what your contract says.
And if the contract says that the translation has to adhere to the rules for E or E10+ then that's what you deliver. You don't want to take the risk that the game receives a T due to your actions and suddenly you're liable for whatever damages the publisher sees in potentially missed sales.

What I want to say is that in at least some cases it's not ideology that leads companies to order or produce a certain translation but that they want to sell as many copies as possible by having the biggest possible pool of customers.
Thereby annoying the people who want a translation as close to the original as possible (while not wanting to play the game in its original language) is a calculated risk IMO.

And now I'll continue to happily wait for Eiyuden Chronicles and Suikoden HD Remaster. :)
The later hopefully without the infamous "Kettenpost". XD

I remember the time when video rental stores were around, particularly small ones. All they had to separate pornographic videos from everything else was a curtain. The R18 page is nothing but the virtual curtain you have to lift before you enter, irrespective of your real age. The only difference was that at the video rental, there was a person at the counter who could judge whether you are old enough - if they did care. Even though it isn't really sensible to go there, horror, action, romantic, and all-ages movies were displayed side by side. How far we've come since then, no? ;-)

Also, or mainly, as I would argue, precisely because a small number of adults are deciding what's appropriate in the first place, age-appropriate in the second, and lastly, making policies and laws allowing indexing and - per proxy - censorship of any kind. I would also say that it isn't GOG wishing to do business with German customers, it is your decision, willingness, and ability to do business with them. Looking at it from that perspective, they are under no obligation to comply with a country's laws to make it possible for German customers to purchase unrated novels and games by implementing an age verification check.

I would also say that this is no question of guilt or necessarily whose fault it is that you are unable to fully enjoy your right. I also see age verification as critical because you can then easily map data to a real person, which gets stored and will be processed in one way or another. I would also question that, if GOG implements it, they could restrict it to German customers, which would then affect Austria, where there are no such requirements and there never were any such restrictions, as well as other countries. It would also be GOG's duty to then verify this data, more work, costing money, so it's not likely that they will take the step unless they become desperate.

No unsupervised access to devices, which can be protected from being accessed, use of tracking and monitoring software on devices, installation and use of content blockers, no harm. What we are really talking about is handing over one's authority to states and individuals, who can then dictate the rules, which will not only fail to meet the set goal 'to protect' anyone from anything. Online- or offline. It's living in a nanny state, instead of a democratic society, where everyone should enjoy the freedom to participate in decision-making processes, and adults can be trusted to decide what is and isn't appropriate - with a safety net provided by a state that's not used as a tool to censor.

Interesting!

Not in all cases, but mostly and frequently in recent instances, ideology is playing a major role in the decision of how and what to censor or leave out entirely, to avoid offending certain consumers - see

Or not being able to, because more often than not, only Japanese audio is available while subtitles are in English and other languages. In case of Eyuden, we, as GOG customers, will enjoy the luxury to play the game with Japanese audio and text. This is exactly how it should be, so anyone able to can enjoy, and escape the butchering, censorship and cringe worthy dialogues done to localized versions. :-)

Interesting. I read the article with a different perspective. For me it reads like there has been a shift to not just see their games as Japanese games but as games produced in Japan for a global market.
And as they want to make the game appealing to the biggest pool of customers in that global market they have started to adjust accordingly.

I'm with you here. I'm absolutely in favour that the original language of a game (and other digital media as well) should always be available.
Not because I dislike most translations (I even enjoy the Dragon Quest translation style in English and German) but just because I'm curious and like to compare. :D

I think the reference in SaGa 2 is rather direct, as there's people in that world talking about opium, and the whole plot of that world involves stopping a criminal who's smuggling opium; the first dungeon of that world involves boarding a docked ship and finding the opium there. Note, however, that the opium is never depicted graphically, nor does it appear as an inventory item. (Incidentally, I'm not sure if the Game Boy could really depict opium graphically in a meaningful way; bananas, on the other hand, would have been easy to depict (see Donkey Kong Land, on the same handheld).)

That reminds me of another case where the translation made a change that makes perfect sense. Specifically, the name of one particular town in Dragon Quest 5.

In the Japanese version of the game, there's a town whose name is something called Ruraton or Ruraphim (not entirely sure, but the important part is that it starts with "Rura"). Now, as it happens, this is the town where you learn the "Rura" spell, the spell that lets you teleport to a town that you've visited, and the town name is a clear reference to that spell.

In the English version, the spells have different names; in particular, the spell in question is called "Zoom" in the English version. As a result, the meaning of the original town's name is lost, and therefore that town name, had they not changed it, would lack the reference.

So, in the English version, they changed the town's name to "Zoomingale", which I think is probably the best name they could have chosen to preserve the reference.

Yes, you are right. That is why i said "i felt the need to say sorry"
I do have my faults, i'm not blind to that fact. I sometimes might be blind in the moment, but those moments usually turn out to be lessons. I am the quite the reasonable one. Or so i hope that i am

I seem to remember the SFC fan translation just using the Japanese name, even though it doesn't work with the older English spell name ("Return" in this case).

Side note: One annoying thing about the SFC version is that, in many towns, casting this spell will simply fail, wasting both your MP and the time it took to go into the menu, select the spell, and have the text appear telling you the spell failed. This even happened in places where there was no reason for the spell to be blocked, like a certain port town. Fortunately, the DS version fixed it, and seeing as the DS version is based off the PS2 version, I'd expect it to be fixed there as well.

Side note 2: DQ5 has one fight early on that is meant to be unwinnable. In the SFC version, when you lose that fight, you lose half your money, which is obnoxious as it comes at a point where you've likely run out of stuff to buy, but don't have access to a bank. Again, this was fixed in at least the DS version.