So that's why I haven't seen it around for quite some time now. I already thought that it is no more and looked into WWE two or three times. I liked it more than WCW (I have no idea why I never liked it), but... Well... It wasn't WWF :P
You
[url=http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ5NVgxMTg2/z/8AQAAOSwnDxUdb~p/$_35.JPG]can't[/url]
beat
this!

All we need to do is destroy the low rating/rep feature.

Then everything will be better.

And more blues to monitor the forums because we have so few blues then we ever had.

Ever since Enigmatic T left :(

hey, i'll have you know a few pages back we had an enlightening discussion on Joyce's Ulysses.

Not for long. The replacements are here!

Basically this. Get rid of Rep, give access to post history and get TET back who tells users to keep it civil when they can't post anything without saying "you fucking idiots are full of shit" at least three times per post.

It's easy to denigrate a group that was framed and given no real chance from the outset. The coverup was worse than the non existent crime in this case... I was shocked at the level of emergent coordination to repress the topic before GG had even been coined as a term. Do you remember? Or already memory holed?

Still, that's all tangential to me. Are you going to lie to my face that you had have will have * an open mind about the ethics of information distribution **? Or about postmodern rejection of objectivity and idolizing of the subjective in contemporary culture? I suspect to you even those nouns are alarm signals to circle the wagons... I can only guess any critique of the ego based zeitgeist cuts too close to the bone, for why else would it prompt such automatic assumptions that they're dishonest poses, camouflages for the demon (imaginary I assure you) that you see me us them as being...

I'll grant you this, I've seen enough of your posts on media manipulation, as well posts with some critical opinions towards what I will again (sorry in advance but three letters is just darn convenient notation) describe as the SJW excesses. *** So you are not all evil :P

Here again you show enough nuance to posit how individuals that are for SJ of type 1 might or not self-identify as SJW, either to reclaim the term, or to try and eliminate it from usage, or maybe because they never considered it derogative in the first place - which one might assume to be because they found it rather descriptive themselves ****. You don't give similar leeway in your judgment of intent to those that are either for SJ type 2, or anti SJ type 1 and use SJW in their discourse. Which is understandable group bias, since we all know which kind of SJ you are for, but still transparent.

That's my take at least, though I'd be happy to try and discuss objective ways to judge "pejorativeness", we can just call it hate speech really... But anyway, thanks for answering.

* I liked this trick

** it was never just about gaming journalism to me at least

*** I mean really I have a hard time even thinking of alternatives to what is the common usage. Radical postmodern politically correct cultural activism?

**** not you clearly, but then your background in some kind of media studies means you're likely more knowledgeable about the term's origins AND more pedantic, but others you can find easily and are not far from you ideologically.

The forum changed around the time that GOG stopped being old-game centric, but not hugely.

It's already been said, but there's always been rep abuse and certain users have always been asses. I've been here for a fair chunk of change, and the only real difference I've seen lately is that some users get downvoted for the stupidest reasons, and I'd like to point out this is NOT by the "GOG Elite" - this is most likely by 1-2 users with several alt accounts. So please, do not assume that those of us who've been around a while have an issue with you if you share a well thought out opinion or ask for a game in one of the giveaway threads - because it is not us.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the rep system die a painful death and have stars based on forum sign up dates or just the number of forum posts. Rep is a stupid system, and it's very easy to make someone feel unwanted or like their opinion doesn't matter, when in fact the opposite is often true.

Personally, I've mitigated the "unclassy" elements of the forums by limiting which threads I participate in, and mostly lurking, besides the occasional days where I post a bunch.

This is a civil discussion so far, and very much on topic I'd like to post a couple links:


This is a slideset for a GDC talk by Raph Koster and two others on community management informed by the obvious elephant in the room

Here is the video of said GDC talk

I really liked this when I saw it back in March. It was one of the main reasons I posted that thread asking for more all around tolerance. It's 1 hr long but IMO very worthwhile.


Some takeaways:

It clinched my thoughts on downvoting. It's a bad community management mechanic and reinforces toxicity. I have never really downvoted much (I'd say at all, but I'm sure I lapsed on occasion) and recently more and more decided to take an active approach and upvote as much as possible anything I find particularly funny, smart or kind.

It made me think seriously about further forum division, which is something I had not given any though originally. A lot of people think topical division makes sense. It also made me look at the language forums in a new oe positive light. Ad then one thought I had was to split English forums into an US and an International one. Love it or hate it, the US culture's weight online is a black hole of sorts I think.


Summary notes (paraphrasing) in case you're not sure about watching:
- Community management in context of increased polarization
- Internet is prone to filter bubbles and self aggregation but safe spaces are ghettos
- Swiss example cultural diversity very insightful
- Freedom of access incompatible with communal authority
- Mobbing =/= harassment, lack of objective standards incentivizes mobbing
- Forum segmentation where 150 common users is manageable maximum
- Reputation best practices - downvoting not good
- Community management is translating for all constituencies
- Saying sorry - aggravating or disarming technique?
- Community management is tone policing and imposing behavior standards
- Considerations on responsible for privacy compromises

^^^THIS

When I came there weren't that many people here and it had to do with those that had smaller pc's and/or more understanding of the abuses, both current and potential, of DRM.

Some of the answers I got when I asked questions about getting games working in widescreen with less hassle or adjusting them to play with disabilites were either patronizing or dismissive.

You're right, there's a lot more awareness on Steam right now about DRM abuses as reviews and forum posts come out with dozens of "I couldn't get my game working" and "I got locked out of the servers for the game I paid for" complaints cluttering up the place every day. I tell them to come here and purchase what they can without that abuse or ask the devs to sell their game here.

Then of course--the trolling at Steam <insert epic eyerolling HERE>

GOG is changing and I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. While I liked it when it was smaller because it felt more personal and kind of had that "safe space for grannygeeky" feel--the one thing it has now is more power through sheer numbers to actually *influence* game devs to put their games here where there isn't the DRM abuses that Steam and other game sellers succumb to.

I guess it's evolving and I'd like to see the senior members stay and guide that evolution.

There seems to be this widespread opinion that new users are the problem, but here's the funny thing. The people that I actually had most problems with here, whom I saw call people names, fling insults and act in a very not "classy" manner? Vast majority of those were guys who have been here for quite a while, sometimes even a very, very long. Problems with scammers, alt account trolls and rep abuse may have come recently, but they didn't really make the community less classy, because they are not part of the community.

You want the place to stay classy? Don't insult people just because they disagree with you. Don't hold gruges. Ignore people you dislike instead of picking fights. That's about it. Fixing or getting rid of rep and other technical issues would be awesome, but it won't help if people still choose to act like a-holes.

Also, I'd like to point out that the whole problem is being blown out of proportion. This forum really did not change into some wretched hive of scum and villainy. The community is still largly nice, funny, generous and more than capable of having civili, interesting discussions. It seems to me that becasue we have been through a lot of changes, technical issues and occasional turmoil with trolls/scammers we tend to look back with a bit too much nostalgia at some golden age of legend of this forum, back when everyone was wise, strong, chivalrous and rode a unicorn.

Let me guess.. you?

Classifying types now, are we...? I will tell you what "SJW" means on this forum: Not a damn thing. It's a derogatory blank board to which assholes can pin just about anything. And that is the sole purpose of the term.

Just take any damn thing you think is wrong with the world today and say "the SJWs did it" or "the Jews" or whatever. It really, really doesn't make a difference concerning the basic crappy world view.

Ask GOG to strictly uphold their DRM free principle? Present an opinion without overt rhetoric insecurity signifiers? Dislike erotic content in games (I certainly don't)? (More examples readily available; I sourced those quotes from three recent GOG threads and three different GOG community members; context is given accurately)

The 'gamergate' thread only acts as an entry point for extremists to this forum and really should be swiftly closed. And, please, don't insult my intelligence with the 'ethics in journalism' smoke screen. Two extremely gross actual violations of game journalist ethics have become apparent in August (uncovered by game journalists). They weren't discussed in this thread at all, and by 'gamergate' hardly ever. I had to discuss them elsewhere, I had to speak out against them elsewhere, because gamergate isn't interested in journalist ethics.

That helps.

As with other group process though, there needs to be people that play traffic cop "[hey, let the quiet one speak over there" or "did you notice what X said?" or "THAT was a racist comment"] and people that smooth the discussion. If those people get disgusted and leave because they feel a lack of support from either the rest or the group or an authority source--then ALL groups fall apart. Basic 101 psych.


The problem with forums is that they tend to become free-for-alls usually based on the questionable family dynamics of disruptive members unless there is moderation whether casual or structured, that turns them into "working groups" aka discussion to solve a problem or attain a goal.

1.Isn't what one calls hate ''speech'' subjective? And wouldn't judging others based on one loose definition be a dis-service in case they may have raised actual points worth discussing?

2.Couldn't it be plausible that everyone there is just posting their opinion and not caring about what the other poster's say?

3.There have been no accusations at all to defend from. So why do you suppose people are willing to defend beyond reason?

4.Well infighting is avoided as much as possible when you're on a forum where users know eachother on an individual level, bu then again, a smart question of the validity of that opinion from the countering party can fix that. So don't imply we're more guilty of not questioning than you are ;D

5.No one could rebut the claims made. How is that the posters problem?
I'm sorry you're just saying your points were all 100% sane and calling anyone who disagrees an extremist? Guess we found the ''SJW'' term you like to use then :D
Which ones? The youtube non disclosure debacle? What is there to discuss? Evidence found, party punished. What more? Pray tell? Did you expect us to post to your liking? Also, to see what GG as a whole i stalking about. Visit the hubs at 8chan or reddit. That is where the bulk of it happens. If you want daily updates this obviously isn't and wasn't the place and thinking so would've been naive considering the few number of posters and you more or less dismissing all evidence. I recall you said the Honey Badgers were kicked out legally. How the the hell?Can they be thrown out of a paid convention for asking a question?