Let's immerse this into the forum...

@GOG: I guess you forgot to add the discounts.

They show up, if you search for the games.

Edit: they also get properly applied in the cart.

In that case they have almost forgot to add the discounts ;)

+1, I feel The Sim.

What is "immersive sims"?

I first thought there would be several flight and racing simulations in this promo, but apparently there is some other meaning to "sims" as well?

Does it refer to "The Sims" as in those Electronic Arts games? I guess that also refers to simulation, as in "life simulation".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims

it all started with Ultima VI: The False Prophet

Yeah, most people who have heard or even played an Immersive Sim or two, don't understand what it is.

Immersive Simulation is a term coined in the 90s, came to prominence and most often associated with the 2000 game Deus Ex. It's a game-systems design doctrine, usually layered on top of a 1st-person, action-oriented base game. For example, Deus Ex is a 1st-person, real time RPG with balanced RPG/stealth/action gameplay; Thief is a 1st-person stealth-action game; System Shock, being the oldest, is 1st-person action with some RPG elements. These are the "Big 3" from which all other Immersive Sims derive.

So what makes them an Immersive Sim? Well, beyond the two standard spheres of immersion called "graphical immersion" (looks believable) and "acoustic immersion" (sounds believable), there's a third sphere of immersion where the interaction between the player and the environment creates unscripted, emergent behaviors that aren't specifically put there by the developers. This leads to a feeling of player authorship, like you are having an experience uniquely yours. Others playing the same game would diverge from your experience because of these systemic interactions.

What are these systems? They are usually the aforementioned player simulations, the environmental simulations, etc. For example: if you are given a weapon like the flamethrower, or a spell like fire magic, it should interact with the environmental objects in a realistic way - wood should burn and propagate a fire, metal should not. So if you come upon a locked door, and it's wood, and you happen to have fire magic, then you should be allowed to get past it by burning the door down. Ideally, in an Immersive Sim there would be many different such interactive systems, and the game would accommodate for the various player solutions as a result.

There are games that are huge and complex, and can be mistaken for an Immersive Sim, but they don't allow for that kind of logical solutions. I.E. In Fallout 3, a 1st-person action-RPG, you have gauntlets that literally smash enemies into pieces, but can't bash down a plywood door cus it's locked. It's governed by a different system, and the two do not interact. That's illogical and therefore a violation of the Immersive Sim design doctrine, therefore Fallout 3 is not an Immersive Sim.

I hope that explained it. It is, to this day, still the forefront of game design.

Odd. I've played and finished all those three games (System Shock several times), and I never recall hearing them being called "immersive sims". Oh well...

I'm pretty sure barely anyone used this term prior the last decade or so when it got popularity in places like reddit. The definitions are all so vague, murky and sometimes contradictory with each other that it's a perfect subject for endless debating over whether something qualifies as immersion sim or not.

Yeah, I started pondering whether e.g. Portal, Half-life 2 and Far Cry 2 are "immersive sims", and if not, why not?

I gathered from the earlier definition that at least it should have some kind of physics model that acts somehow coherently and believably, which probably apply to those three games then? Suddenly it feels quite many games nowadays would be "immersion sims", isn't some kind of physics model where you can throw or move stuff quite normal in e.g. FPS games?

Anyway, you learn something new "every day". Really, this is the first time I recall hearing that term, or at least paid attention to it.

From what I know, what makes an imsim qualify is when you have multiple approaches to a situation. Like instead of only have to fight your way through, you can sneak around to find another way or maybe with a certain dialogue skill avoid hostilities. Portal and HL2 don't really count, since those games are quite linear and can be only done in 1 way. Not sure about Far Cry, never played it.

Physics model help in making a game closer to imsim, but does not always make it one. A good example of physics model in an imsim would be like, if you can stack boxes to enter a building through a window instead of the front door. In this regard, personally I consider HL2 an imsim-lite, even though it's linear, physics object is its highlight.

Most imsims are associated with stealth as you can see from the list, but not every stealth game is an imsim.Dishonored is, but Styx isn't. BioShock 2 is considered by many as only an imsim-lite, and Prey is considered by many to be one of the best imsim example due to having many ways to progress.

Thanks for the condescending tone, but your long description of the term was pretty much incomprehensible, and contradicted how some others in this thread explained the term.

For instance, you claim being a 1st person view game is one important ingredient of being an immersive sim, while someone else gave Ultima IV as an example of an immersive sim. Was he just being sarcastic, I wouldn't know. Some of the descriptions of "immersive sims" seem to fit e.g. Ultima 7 and Ultima Underworld quite well, where you can even bake bread ("combine flour with water, and put to oven") or make popcorn ("throw corn into a fireplace"), totally optional actions.

Someone else mentioned the most important aspect being having several approaches to obstacles. To me that sounds like most CRPGs, you usually have different approaches to problems if you are a warrior, wizard, hacker, thief etc. By that description, I agree that e.g. Portal is not an "immersive sim" even though it has a physics model where you can throw stuff and sometimes you might be able to solve a problem a bit differently than what the developer intended, but generally it is a pretty linear experience where it is clear developer has decided for you how you are supposed to advance in the game.

How about Far Cry 2 then? When you mentioned that you should be able to burn any wooden objects but not e.g. metal objects in an immersive sim, that certainly gave me flashbacks of playing Far Cry 2. I would burn trees, wooden huts, fields of dry grass, enemy cars, enemies etc. with the flamethrower, giving a pretty good impression of "if it can burn, it will burn".

It certainly also gave several ways to approach situations, e.g. if there was an enemy checkpoint ahead, you could try to speed through (not caring about enemy shooting at you), exit your vehicle and snipe the enemies at the checkpoint from afar, or even try to avoid going though the checkpoint, e.g. driving through a dense jungle instead. So, it is an immersive sim then, even the fact that it is indeed in first person? All checkboxes marked?

I've personally always described Far Cry 2 as a "non-linear first person view GTA-clone in Africa".

Well, maybe there is a Wikipedia article that explains the term better and in a comprehensive way, without contradicting itself.