It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionCan somebody explain GOG vs Steam DRM?(125 posts)(125 posts)
(125 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
This is my favourite topic
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
Cyker: Well Steam *is* DRM - The fact is, you HAVE to have Steam installed and you HAVE to be able to log into your account in order to install and play any game you buy on the Steam platform. That it has obnoxious on-line call-home copy protection on top of that is just another kick in the balls.

I don't use Steam so I don't have first-hand experience, but I've never seen a game on Steam that didn't have some sort of copy protection - I've had friends claim such but it turned out they were just talking about the off-line mode, which still requires the game to 'check-in' occasionally, as one of my friends discovered when he was without internet access for a month.

GOG is more like the on-line software distributors from back in the day - You pay money, you get a download link and maybe a key, and that is it - Nothing further needs to take place between the two of you and you can go your separate ways, although GOG is a bit nicer in that you can still log into your account to re-download the software after the fact, which was not a thing with a lot of those online distributors (You were expected to store the install files somewhere; You lose it, you buy it again)

I bought a lot of stuff from those back then and still have the installers and can still install them now, even where the original companies no longer exist.

I can say the same of software I purchase from GOG but you cannot say the same of any software purchased from Steam.

If Steam ever goes away or you lose access to your account then you're basically in that creek people talk about that lacks paddles.

I really don't know why more people aren't bothered by this - It's already happened so much in the Console world, with games or whole platforms being pulled with no recourse or refund to the end-user. If it wasn't for the efforts of pirates, a lot of games would be lost forever in the console world, and I suspect many of the more obscure ones already have! And how much money has been spent on titles that people can no longer access for no good reason?
Thank you for this information. This is very helpful. I think that other user was misinterpreting some things, but was correct with some stuff.

When I mentioned DRM, yes I was referring to Steam as a whole with everything about it. But it is true that Steam is also a shop. So it does sell DRM-free games. But this doesn't make Steam any less of a DRM in itself. If you install a game, and it requires you to install some bloatware onto your system as DRM, that's basically the gist of what you're getting with Steam.

A DRM can be a process that runs in the background. No game launcher. No store. I'd actually prefer nothing more than a simple indicator on my taskbar when the DRM has been launched. Instead of some gigantic mess. Therefore, a single panel that allows me to log in. With at most, an options menu showing my account information, and list of games tied to that DRM account. Nothing more is ecessary for a DRM.

And yes definitely it is an enormous problem with DRM itself that if you lose your DRM account, you lose every single game tied to that DRM. And it's definitely amazing that GOG has a feature that allows you access the installer for a game you purchased from it anytime while being DRM-free. Yes Steam does this as well, but there is still that DRM dilemma.
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
50urc3c0d3: So why do users point fingers at EGS?
That would be steam fanboys, not general users.

Steam fanboys will generally insist that no 'bad' words apply to steam and they only apply to others. So downloading the EGS loader is a horrible imposition and obvious DRM, but downloading the steam app is perfectly acceptable and obviously not DRM because DRM is bad!; steam's steamworks' mediated in kind inducements and loss leading exclusives are fine, but Epic paying money directly is horribly anti competitive; EGS is anticompetitive but most of steam's competitors being beholden to selling steam keys which valve can nuke at any time is exactly what Adam Smith intended and such games aren't actually steam exclusive despite requiring steam. Same thing applied to Origin especially and Uplay when they were launched. Most general users don't really care where their games come from so long as they work and the conditions aren't too onerous; indeed it's them Galaxy 2.0 is aimed at instead of the Steam4Lyfe crowd.

FTR: haven't bought anything from EGS and I am unlikely to in the near future. Maybe Outer Worlds but I'd probably get that from the Win10 store or Gamepass or whatever MS ends up calling their store in a few months if I do. I have way more games to play than time to play them in anyway.

(Many of the EGS exclusives complained about aren't even actual exclusives, they're just labelled as such because it's a 'bad' word. People label games that are on EGS and Uplay as EGS exclusives, games that are on win10 store/ gamepass and EGS as exclusive, people label games that are sold by 2k and EGS as exclusive, games that are sold on the devs own site and EGS as EGS exclusives. What they really mean is that it isn't on steam, so toys get thrown out of cots)
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
Phasmid: Steam fanboys will generally insist that no 'bad' words apply to steam and they only apply to others. So downloading the EGS loader is a horrible imposition and obvious DRM, but downloading the steam app is perfectly acceptable and obviously not DRM because DRM is bad!; steam's steamworks' mediated in kind inducements and loss leading exclusives are fine, but Epic paying money directly is horribly anti competitive; EGS is anticompetitive but most of steam's competitors being beholden to selling steam keys which valve can nuke at any time is exactly what Adam Smith intended and such games aren't actually steam exclusive despite requiring steam. Same thing applied to Origin especially and Uplay when they were launched. Most general users don't really care where their games come from so long as they work and the conditions aren't too onerous; indeed it's them Galaxy 2.0 is aimed at instead of the Steam4Lyfe crowd.

FTR: haven't bought anything from EGS and I am unlikely to in the near future. Maybe Outer Worlds but I'd probably get that from the Win10 store or Gamepass or whatever MS ends up calling their store in a few months if I do. I have way more games to play than time to play them in anyway.

(Many of the EGS exclusives complained about aren't even actual exclusives, they're just labelled as such because it's a 'bad' word. People label games that are on EGS and Uplay as EGS exclusives, games that are on win10 store/ gamepass and EGS as exclusive, people label games that are sold by 2k and EGS as exclusive, games that are sold on the devs own site and EGS as EGS exclusives. What they really mean is that it isn't on steam, so toys get thrown out of cots)
Thanks for this. Really good information.

Firstly, Outer Worlds looks amazing. That and Cyberpunk are the only two expensive games I'll be getting for the rest of the year. Way more than enough content there. I heard bad things about Win10 store glitches with Metro 3. I'd recommend getting Outer Worlds directly from their website, but I think it will force EGS anyway.

(However, I will double check this, and possibly get it on W Store if there won't be a problem. I don't understand why there would be technical glitches within a game due the DRM which is completely separate from the actual game. I would think that being on W10 desktop logged into W-Live account, is all the DRM would need. And the game should play fine.)

I first used EGS because of free games. They gave me Subnautica free which I ended up putting a few hundred hours into. Also Witness, Rime, and others. They give a free game per week. Even not supporting DRM platform, you can exploit them for something good.

It seems to me that all the hate mongering initiated from Steam cultists who want nothing other than for Steam to be a monopoly. So they would rather for every game to be on Steam. Including anything from Bnet, EA, Ubi, and everywhere in the universe. Because they don't seem to be interested in all games DRM-free in which games could sell in every store, including Steam.

The exclusives not really being exclusives is huge. Can you elaborate on this? Because this confused me about Metro 3. How is it on Windows Store? Is that a different version that doesn't use EGS for DRM? I thought the purpose for EGS was to use them exclusively for their DRM. What is the deal there? So are these games not going into timed exclusivity deals? Do you have a link with some more explanation.
Post edited August 19, 2019 by 50urc3c0d3
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
DivisionByZero.620: it appears that GOG is selling some of its installers on Steam to reach a few extra people and make some extra money.
I don't think that's what it means. I'm pretty sure it's lazy publishers doing it rather than GOG.
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
AB2012: From what I've heard, some devs / publishers seem to have agreements with GOG that they can reuse any enhancements / tweaks made for the GOG release elsewhere in future. It certainly isn't GOG "selling on Steam" (for which they'll receive 0 cut), it's probably just the devs repackaging former GOG enhancements for Steam re-releases. A sleazy move if true, but it certainly explains why games like Commandos Enemy Lines were initially broken on Steam when they were released "raw" a few years back, then magically started working when a compatibility fix was included that looked & behaved virtually identical to GOG's...
I never knew much about this until thinking about it recently. Because GOG sells much older games made for much older OS/systems. So does CD-Projekt actually update older games for modern day compatibility?
Posted August 19, 2019
low rated
avatar
rjbuffchix: It's why I use the term "DRM-exclusive" for PC games that are tied to Scheme, Epic Fail, U-Rent, EA Orentgin, etc. For example, Skyrim is DRM-exclusive. Metro Exodus is DRM-exclusive. Dragon Age II is DRM-exclusive.

For a PC gamer like me who only wants to buy DRM-free, it really doesn't matter which of the above services a game is on. If the game is not available on a DRM-free store, I will eschew that game and buy something DRM-free instead.
1st bit: Using silly lame names for other services, to me, is a tad childish.

2nd bit: More for those of us who are more flexible, then.

avatar
Cyker: Well Steam *is* DRM - The fact is, you HAVE to have Steam installed and you HAVE to be able to log into your account in order to install and play any game you buy on the Steam platform.
You make some good points but not all games need to be played on steam. One can port some of them to source ports or run them from their install folders without steam running.

avatar
50urc3c0d3: Yes the rest of us who still play DRM games take it up the ass to play certain games we like. But few of us will ever admit that we are taking it up the ass without being delusional about it.
And some of us are also fine with such if the game is good and the drm(true or sort of drm) isn't too bad like with some console(esp. older systems) games.

avatar
50urc3c0d3: And yes definitely it is an enormous problem with DRM itself that if you lose your DRM account, you lose every single game tied to that DRM. And it's definitely amazing that GOG has a feature that allows you access the installer for a game you purchased from it anytime while being DRM-free. Yes Steam does this as well, but there is still that DRM dilemma.
Not if you are more flexible and keep cracks on hand for legally bought games for when/if a service goes under or you lose your account(like with some getting steam bans for stupid crap). ;)
Post edited August 19, 2019 by GameRager
Posted August 19, 2019
low rated
avatar
AB2012: From what I've heard, some devs / publishers seem to have agreements with GOG that they can reuse any enhancements / tweaks made for the GOG release elsewhere in future. It certainly isn't GOG "selling on Steam" (for which they'll receive 0 cut), it's probably just the devs repackaging former GOG enhancements for Steam re-releases. A sleazy move if true, but it certainly explains why games like Commandos Enemy Lines were initially broken on Steam when they were released "raw" a few years back, then magically started working when a compatibility fix was included that looked & behaved virtually identical to GOG's...
avatar
50urc3c0d3: I never knew much about this until thinking about it recently. Because GOG sells much older games made for much older OS/systems. So does CD-Projekt actually update older games for modern day compatibility?
Sometimes.....many times they simply throw the game(older ones) in dosbox or scummVM/etc and call it a day, or they use(or have used) other people's tweaks and fixes(sometimes in the past they did it without crediting the ones who made such and then apologized when found out) to do so sometimes.
Posted August 19, 2019
Hey guys ...

Is Steam DRM? :)
avatar
rjbuffchix: Scheme, Epic Fail, U-Rent, EA Orentgin, etc.
what about GrentgrOldGreentors?
Post edited August 19, 2019 by tfishell
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
Anothername: Steam did not needed to do special exclusive deals; since they where/are the big chosen one, savior of PC gaming, golden god king of the western gaming world and came with build in drm a lot of dev/pubs made Steam mandatory for their game for PC (i.e. Skyrim or Fallout 4; you cannot play them legally on PC if you refuse Steam).
avatar
50urc3c0d3: So why do users point fingers at EGS?

Just like you mentioned somebody who has a monopolistic dominance over DRM wouldn't need exclusivity. Somebody else here even brought up hard evidence of exclusivity deals with Steam in its early days.
I dislike all these types. No matter their name. But while Steam is "merely" ignorant in their doing; Epic though does get an extra portion from me because they are really dicks about i.e. the way they grab kickstarters which got their money from ppl in good faith that the games would be available elsewhere. The devs of course are to blame too and I'll spread the word if I catch wind should any of these attempt a new crowdfunded project again. I'm sure if it can be seen yet but I'm sure Epic and these sellouts have done a lot of harm to crowdfunding games.

TD/DR: They are all Asshats; but Epic takes the crown.
Post edited August 19, 2019 by Anothername
Posted August 19, 2019
low rated
avatar
tfishell: what about GrentgrOldGreentors?
Gog should rename at this point to Generic Old Galaxy(2.0). ;)
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
50urc3c0d3: Thanks for this. Really good information.

Firstly, Outer Worlds looks amazing. That and Cyberpunk are the only two expensive games I'll be getting for the rest of the year. Way more than enough content there. I heard bad things about Win10 store glitches with Metro 3. I'd recommend getting Outer Worlds directly from their website, but I think it will force EGS anyway.
I'd suspect their version would be the Win10 Store one. I'm not sure EGS has a key generation/ redemption system yet- it was one of the things on their to do list last time I checked though maybe that was 3rd party store- GMG etc- keys they didn't have rather than 1st party.

And yeah, I'm not keen on steam fanatics at all either.
The exclusives not really being exclusives is huge. Can you elaborate on this? Because this confused me about Metro 3. How is it on Windows Store? Is that a different version that doesn't use EGS for DRM? I thought the purpose for EGS was to use them exclusively for their DRM. What is the deal there? So are these games not going into timed exclusivity deals? Do you have a link with some more explanation.
There isn't much to elaborate on really. The exclusivity deals are often 'not on steam' deals rather than actual exclusives; but they're labelled as exclusives by fanboys because that makes it sound like they're being 'forced' to buy on EGS. Division 2 and Anno #### were 'exclusives' on EGS and Uplay, Outer Worlds will be 2k store/ Win10/ EGS, other Private DIvision games will at least be 2k/ EGS (and maybe win10 store), DerpSilver games will (probably) be EGS and Win10Store. Most of the true EGS exclusives are indies which don't have a store associated with them, and IIRC even some of the indies are being sold on Win10Store as well.

There's definitely stuff I don't like about Epic's model like grabbing Kickstarted games as 'exclusives', but frankly that's mostly on the devs for accepting the deals rather than Epic for offering them. The rest of the complaints I either don't really care about- if their business model of paying for 'exclusives' is unsustainable then it won't last- or are ludicrous FUD that has already been debunked when used against Origin like 'experts' using ProcMon to see Epic Launcher 'scanning' people's hard drives.

avatar
SirPrimalform: I don't think that's what it means. I'm pretty sure it's lazy publishers doing it rather than GOG.
It's definitely lazy publishers. I bought BG1 and 2 on Gamersgate and they were literally the GOG installers; as provided by Atari (or maybe Hasbro, not sure on the timing).
Posted August 19, 2019
low rated
avatar
50urc3c0d3: Thanks for this. Really good information.

Firstly, Outer Worlds looks amazing. That and Cyberpunk are the only two expensive games I'll be getting for the rest of the year. Way more than enough content there. I heard bad things about Win10 store glitches with Metro 3. I'd recommend getting Outer Worlds directly from their website, but I think it will force EGS anyway.
avatar
Phasmid: I'd suspect their version would be the Win10 Store one. I'm not sure EGS has a key generation/ redemption system yet- it was one of the things on their to do list last time I checked though maybe that was 3rd party store- GMG etc- keys they didn't have rather than 1st party.

And yeah, I'm not keen on steam fanatics at all either.

The exclusives not really being exclusives is huge. Can you elaborate on this? Because this confused me about Metro 3. How is it on Windows Store? Is that a different version that doesn't use EGS for DRM? I thought the purpose for EGS was to use them exclusively for their DRM. What is the deal there? So are these games not going into timed exclusivity deals? Do you have a link with some more explanation.
avatar
Phasmid: There isn't much to elaborate on really. The exclusivity deals are often 'not on steam' deals rather than actual exclusives; but they're labelled as exclusives by fanboys because that makes it sound like they're being 'forced' to buy on EGS. Division 2 and Anno #### were 'exclusives' on EGS and Uplay, Outer Worlds will be 2k store/ Win10/ EGS, other Private DIvision games will at least be 2k/ EGS (and maybe win10 store), DerpSilver games will (probably) be EGS and Win10Store. Most of the true EGS exclusives are indies which don't have a store associated with them, and IIRC even some of the indies are being sold on Win10Store as well.

There's definitely stuff I don't like about Epic's model like grabbing Kickstarted games as 'exclusives', but frankly that's mostly on the devs for accepting the deals rather than Epic for offering them. The rest of the complaints I either don't really care about- if their business model of paying for 'exclusives' is unsustainable then it won't last- or are ludicrous FUD that has already been debunked when used against Origin like 'experts' using ProcMon to see Epic Launcher 'scanning' people's hard drives.
After reading all the responses here, I started to think that something more was going on with EGS. Especially when it comes to supposed exclusive deals that end up elsewhere, and couldn't possibly benefit Epic. Not to mention all the good they do for indi games. And agressiveness towards Steam in particular. And all the persicution from steaming hate mongers. It comes off alot as if they're not just trying to make profits. And actually trying to do something good in general.

Then I was on Twitter. Saw random BS about the whole EGS deal. IDK how I bumped into it, but I came accross this: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1148370654682583042?s=20

I think he's referring to Galaxy in particular. Perhaps the ability to communicate with multiple bloatware platforms from one place. I think he's definitely interested in a more open market. But more specifically, a no Steam market. Game theory in marketing isn't just about making profit. It's about preventing profit from competition. If pulling off indis from Steam helps, then I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing. Take DARQ. Offer them exclusive deal. Everybody so confused why not just sell DARQ on EGS as a non-exclusive. Of course, if the point isn't to sell the game, but keep it off of Steam, it would be pointless to bring them in non-exclusive. There would be no interest in it.

Basically, it doesn't seem like Epic is as concerned with greed as they are putting a stop to the greediest monopoly in the PC gaming industry.
Post edited August 19, 2019 by 50urc3c0d3
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
50urc3c0d3: So why do users point fingers at EGS?
Phasmid nailed it here. Half the market fragmentation problems are symptoms originally created by Steam "normalizing" the "lock-in" model of tying 3rd party games to store-specific clients back in 2005 that's created a "captive audience" that opposes the same thing for the 2nd store onwards only after making special exceptions for the first store (Steam). Eg, "I don't even notice Steam's DRM, I just want all my games in one place" = "I don't notice it all the time I only ever buy Steam games. If I don't like that I'm forced to use multiple clients then my real problem is with why all compulsory clients are compulsory in the first place (DRM)..." The core problem - stores locking games to store-specific clients and using DRM to enforce that - was there all along, it's just been invisible to those living in a "one store bubble" but is simply being made more visible again by competing stores that sell desirable AAA games that aren't on Steam.

There are some valid complaints of unfairness over the way Epic have suddenly snatched games that were already accepting pre-order money on other stores, but as Phasmid said that decision is on the publishers. And 9 times out of 10, complaints over Epic's "exclusives" that are also on sale on other stores (MS, UPlay, etc) are just Steam's "captive audience" trying to reframe 15 years of habituation as some greater cause. Or end up complaining about the same thing ("forced to use a client I don't want") that Steam foisted on the PC market in the first place, but few want to admit it's one of those things that only appears "clever" in the short-term when there's only one guy doing the lock-in, and in a post-fragmentation market, ends up looking like "not really much of an upgrade at all" vs the pre-Steam physical era when the downside of needing physical media came with upsides of a healthy 2nd hand resale market, devs supported games directly (eg, downloading patches directly from dev sites = they only needed one patch for all stores not one per store, the client-less Windows Start Menu shortcut links were the same "all in one place" for everyone, etc). Funny how things go full circle.
Posted August 19, 2019
avatar
50urc3c0d3: I think he's definitely interested in a more open market. But more specifically, a no Steam market.
That's not an open market. Refusing to publish Darq unless it's an exclusive is the exact opposite of an open market.
it would be pointless to bring them in non-exclusive. There would be no interest in it.
So you're saying the EGS has zero value on its own? How does that work with an open market?
Posted August 19, 2019
Steam Support disabled my Steam account for "spamming of tickets" (I "own" 1000+ games in the past). So, definitely GOG is better.
Post edited August 19, 2019 by .Kaby
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionCan somebody explain GOG vs Steam DRM?(125 posts)(125 posts)
(125 posts)