Thank you for your words. I didn't even consider this aspect, but you're right. Small things like that, along with manuals and other goodies, just make it an amazing experience.

It's a shame that physical on PC was pretty much killed due to Steam. But thankfully on consoles that's not the case. Those Steam CD key "physical" versions are a plague. Unfortunately it hasn't been viable to even consider physical on PC at all from an ownership standpoint.

For me, the peak gaming experience is just having a disc, popping it in, and keeping it forever. That's what I had with my PS3. Game plays right off the disc, I got achievements, could play my game wherever, whenever, take a look at the manual, etc.

GOG is the next greatest thing to this, and I am thankful for it. But physical is just amazing. Unloved, forgotten, but one hell of a thing.

Indeed, and I well remember the days of having to create virtual drives to get over that ... with No CD patches of course.

And it's not just about the whirring of a drive. Every time you handle a disc it is at risk. It is also at risk from hardware issues and children etc. Sure, you can play the odds, but it is very like all your eggs in one basket.

And if the game doesn't need to regularly access the disc, that means copying a lot more data to your PC or hard drive, and that can take time, especially via a slow disc or thumb stick or even some hard drives.

Many games demand a lot, and going backward and using an external drive for an installed game, rather than your PC SSD, doesn't make a lot of sense ... and GOG get a lot of complaints about game issues already.

Of course, many games also don't demand much resource wise, so you can maybe get away with those. But aren't we more sensible to cover all bases.

That’s right, I guess many of us already tried to get rid of the reliance on cumbersome dedicated physical media long before the era of network-powered games distribution.

This is one of the reasons I think the progressive disappearance of CD-ROM and such would have happened no matter if Steam came into existence or not. So the only real legacy Steam leaves us with is DRM…

C'ourse, the bigger problem with the Wii-U is that pesky NAND. Several models used a third rate chip, which has been steadily dying on users.


And people can tell what chips are in the Wii-U just by looking at it, right?

What paper size is the DVD cover?
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/unofficial_dvd_covers_for_gog_com_games
Does a DVD box equal a game box? @OP and interested

Just use a SNES... it got way better games and may last almost forever... it was true Japanese quality.

However... people did not like Gamecube at all but it was a pretty good console.

By the sound of it you liked it, so likely many others did too.

The issue was, not the majority, due to the superior competition at the time.

Alas, in the world we live in, timing has become very important when it comes to Software (games, etc) and Hardware.

It is a real shame, when a game's only really failing at the time of its release, is because it has become a bit dated. Which isn't difficult to happen when the life cycle of development can take years for some games, with additional extended periods on occasion, for all sorts of reasons.

I guess i have to tell people some important stuff regarding "flash cells" technology and why for example a SNES or N64 module got such a supreme lifetime compared to modern "NAND cells" which is as well a flash-type storage.

I told already, even the NAND cells got different quality; so a very high quality one (for example the one used on a expensive PCIE 5.0 SSD but even inside a PS5 some high quality NAND is soldered on their PCB, which can life over 10 years without issues) may as well offer very good lifetime. A bad quality NAND on the other hand may offer a lifetime that short... it may completely die in a few years.

The Wii-U for example seems to use such "bad" NAND cells in many cases... and indeed... the liftetime of this storage is close to zero; in many cases it can die in just a few years... or short time after its warranty is over.

However... the flash cells used on a BIOS chip from a modern PC, even a smartphone got such a BIOS chip... those are basically more or less the same "type" of flash cells. This flash cell is not a NAND-cell, it is a NOR-cell.

NOR cells offer smaller storage, slower write speeds (not slower read speeds, it could even be higher) and of course higher costs but their lifetime compared to NAND is supreme. Other than that they offer almost the same "flash-able" memory.

However... on the SNES or N64 modules, which had a very low capacity of a few MB up to 64 MB (maximum, rarely used) it seems there was even EPROM (erasable programmable read only memory) involved (as far as i can say... the knowledge is very hard to be found... almost no one is writing about). A EPROM is NOT offering a flash-able memory in the same sense such as NOR or NAND-flash. However... a EPROM can last extremely long... no one can say how long it may last but... it can surely last just as long as any "physical disc". The disadvantage is simply the very low storage size and the very high costs (in relation of its size... of course). Just as i said, those consoles did have very low storage and it was working for them, thanks to a very minimalistic design and a OS that was not much more than a fragment of the "most critical kernel it actually needs in order to make nothing more than booting up a game", nothing else.

Nintendo, on the modern consoles (Wii and upward) simply did not care quality anymore. I would say the last Nintendo console offering very high quality was the Gamecube... any console after this one (i do not include handhelds now... it would get to complicated) is with way lower quality... on purpose... because Nintendo simply did not care anymore and the "demand" from the industry has changed toward "big data size, fast speed, low cost per GB and what else". In general... a console was more close than ever representing a actual PC with the same traits... strengths and weakness.

The Switch... it is very closely representing a actual "handheld": Gamers can get many of those on the market with very comparable technology in many cases... Nintendo is not offering "a supreme quality solution" anymore, just the a market demand of "a cheap and affordable portable system" and with a supreme marketing slogan... or name... such as "Switch and Steam"... if people hear it... they instantly have to buy it just because of its name, not because of its supreme quality. The true gain is simply the "supreme" Nintendo platform... not their hardware, at least not on the quality-term. The modern Nintendo basically is a "marketplace" such as any other marketplace... this is the raw truth, lacking some details now.

I would say... nowadays... everything is marketing, a launcher and a service... nothing else. It may not necessarily be "good data"... this is relative as everyone got a different taste, and absolutely it does not involve supreme quality hardware... this time is over for many years already.

The demand has "shifted" away into hardware that is at least able to surpass its warranty period... and able to hold as many of the "digital marketplace data" as possible... and it need a great name of course, so people know "what to buy" because i know.... hard to admit... most people are sheeps and dumb as nuts... i am sorry to be so direct and honest now, it may beat me down, biting me somewhere, at some point for sure.

Anyway, yes, as far as i can say (very little data available), a SNES or N64 was using a EPROM chip in order to store its game data... and this solution is... it can not be compared to NAND flash... it will outlast NAND by a mile... not fair even to compare it in the quality aspect.

No matter what, even NOS-flash cells would offer way more lifetime and can probably be good for dozens of years... but even this one was not "big enough" for the huge data demand anymore. So, indeed... Nintendo "skipped" the idea of using another flash or hard coded memory (EPROM is kinda hard coded). It is expensive and the data along with the general consumer demand has changed.

In general, any flash type (or even hardcoded) other than NAND is nowadays only used on certain firmware (BIOS, UEFI whatelse) of any computer device, because if this data is lost... the device is done and gone... not hard to tell. As for games.. no one really cares anymore if it is "done and gone" (the industry even may enjoy if someone is losing a game... so they can buy it NEW = win)... as a modern game is usually "consumed" short time after release and then patched up for many years until there are no bluescreens anymore... or in some cases not even patched up because the functionality was just "in order to provide something new that can at some point vanish itself like a oversized fart into the blue.... screen".

Long time ago... those "quality storage" was even used for game data... and thats why a SNES or N64 module can probably outlast almost anything.

Indeed, even NAND could offer more quality but then they will have to be build in another way... for example way bigger cells... which would increase the price a lot... and nowadays... people are usually nothing more than "consumers"... so as soon as a game has been consumed it can safely become lost... like a soft drink that may destroy some brain cells... i mean NAND cells... after. This is the entire idea of the "modern industry". If anyone is even caring for archiving games or making it "long lasting" it is either a certain platform... as long as it is commercially viable... or some "freaks" such as GOG gamers.

Another group are "retro (console) gamers"... those even are able to buy some "remaked" modules, for example here:
https://krikzz.com/

Of course such parts can still be gotten, mainly for industrial use... and indeed... some "retro lovers":
https://www.mouser.ch/c/semiconductors/memory-ics/eprom/?srsltid=AfmBOor85elOprYnHAnjrsjz9meS6fpKQv52TocaHAdpM2UkagCrrMou


I am NOT against big data, do not get me wrong now because it as well can offer some unique traits. In the same term i also do believe that small data and extreme quality storage is something many people could fall in love for.

I totally agree... just sad there are so few people who "got more than a small bunch of sturdy brain-cells left".

It is rarely ever the case having a physical disc unable to properly play the game stored on it, but if so... not because of the physical disc, instead because of the "customer hostile" intentions of an publisher... which is, as i see it, even hostile against their own game... yet they may currently fail to see it until some very far day when it could be to late already.

As a gamer, i simply do not support such bad intentions. If they do neither provide a GOG copy nor a TRUE physical copy (not a game code inside a box or whatever they got in mind)... then they can bite the dust at some place i hopefully may never meet their philosophy ever again.

Of course, they may only stop if the customers will stop rewarding it. Which is currently only the case on a Denuvo-digital-game paired with several account-demands... which is kind sad. Still, there is room for hope because i noticed that a good bunch of gamers has become more sensitive already regarding those matters, even on Steam.

Thanks for your precious mind!

If you want to understand what EPROM and EEPROM are, you may need to dive into low level electronics.
Understand what is a transistor, the fundamental building blocks like flip-flops, then bit registers and so on...

They are "rarely talked" because from a computer user perspective, they offer no use.
From what I remember from 20+ years ago, EPROM is not even erasable by normal means, it's a one time programming memory that I don't belive it's even used on modern PC's.
The website has lots of potential but at the moment, a total of 21 PC games tested is a bit undewhelming. Not sure if it's because of the lack of contributions or just the website is more console focused.

No, modern PCs are most likely (with the exception of industrial use) not using an EPROM anymore because of 3 reasons:
1. NAND or NOR is cheaper

2. NAND or NOR is rewritable (firmware updates, not that i always recommend it, it is a risky procedure, but nowadays it can not always be avoided)

3. NAND or NOR is offering sufficient lifetime for "consumer grade" stuff. Still, in general for the "better quality" hardware they use NOR cells at least.. which is way more sturdy. It may not always be the case on cheap consumer devices but i do lack the knowledge... its a true geek matter and i had way to many other stuff to take care off.

Some of the old game modules are using an EPROM chip, so yeah they are not rewritable, true... but their lifetime is supreme. It may outlast a persons lifetime, even if that person got this module during their childhood.

NAND on the other hand... may fail even sooner than the average serious relationship in the current age, but of course it may still outlast any "casual stuff".

NOR, as far as i can tell, which is hard enough, it is somewhere "in between". In most cases fully sufficient for up to dozens of years. For example my Plasma-TV most likely got a firmware stored on a NOR, else it may be difficult to have this device lasting up to 20 years... and 12 years has already passed so far. It is not impossible having a good NAND lasting way over 10 years but i would not consider it safe anymore.

Yeah, it's more console focused. In fact, most testers are console players exclusively. PC physical releases are extremely rare nowadays and are almost always Steam keys, so there's not much point in doing those. The website focuses primarily on modern and just released physical games. Older console games are still tested, but it's not as useful as new games, because anything below the PS4 is expected to work off disc, it was only mid PS4 that a few games started being a mess on disc.

There's been a lot of discussion about the practical issues here, but one that hasn't been mention so far is cost.

With a purely digital product, the supplier costs come down to development (generally a once-off cost), server storage, online distribution and support.

With a physical product, you have to add costs for production, physical storage (space in a warehouse), delivery (with the risks of lost/damaged items) and inventory management (setting up new production runs when stock is low for instance).

Because of those extra costs, physical products can only turn a profit if they can be sold in bulk and quickly - which usually only happens on a game's initial release.

Since GOG tends to get games after (sometimes long after) release, their sales will tend to follow a "long tail" pattern. So GOG will likely never be able to produce physical "big box" releases - even when GOG gets hold of a game when first released (e.g. a CDPR creation), the "big box" version will be handled by someone else.

That isn't to say that "big box" games are totally dead - Collector's Editions will be made available in low numbers (and excessively high prices) for top-end game releases and numerous Kickstarter games have included an option of a physical release (though given the number of KS projects I've been burned on, and KS' unwillingness to deal with delinquent creators, I no longer support KS and would urge others to avoid them also). One KS project Dreamfall Chapters did have a customised USB stick as a reward option, but it was delivered empty. In reality though, you'd find games publishers blocking any USB release unless they could impose some user-hostile "copy control" nonsense like they did with discs.I have to confess a preference for "big box" releases with physical manuals, maps (where justifiable) and related goodies - and purchased the physical releases of WItcher 1 + 2 along with the digital for that purpose (and subsequently paid through the nose for a "big box" version of Pillars of Eternity).

They had downsides though - in particular the need to find/install a no-CD crack to avoid the inconvenience/wear-and-tear of having to insert the CD/DVD every time when starting the game (plus other issues like loss of performance, security issues and blacklisting of utilities like Process Explorer). When Starforce came out and I could no longer assume the existence of a no-CD crack, I had to stop any in-store impulse buys until I had a chance to check for a no-CD on each game beforehand (so in a way, Starforce did save me quite a bit of money).

However even I would really struggle to see how a physical release of an old game (even a golden oldie like HOMM3) could work - aside from the issues above, most gameplayers would only consider paying budget prices for older titles (and, in addition, have been conditioned by Steam to expect regular discounts of up to 90% off). Though I'm in the position of having 3 physical copies of HOMM3 (initial HOMM3 release, HOMM3 Complete, HOMM3+4 Collection) along with the GOG versions...

As a followup, the magazine discs with games I ordered just arrived today. For 31 bucks, I got all this (see screenshot). Naturally, exclude the 4 games with the Steam logo, they've long since been used. But everything else is fair game so to speak.

Either way, I'm glad a lot don't see any value in physical anymore. Means there are going to be a lot of very cheap options from people who want to get rid of theirs, asking low price because physical is generally perceived as dead. Now excuse me as I go install American McGee's Alice followed by Harbinger.

Disc drive go BRRRRRRRRR.