Posted April 03, 2017
Carradice
Orlanthi
Registered: Mar 2013
From Spain
blakstar
ShadowKnows
Registered: Oct 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted April 03, 2017
1. Before the Brexit referendum, James Cameron had compiled a list of claims to be considered by the Council of the EU (this means the other countries). It was unanimously approved. Anybody heard about it during the campaign? This was in the line of the special treatment and exemptions that the UK had obtained for decades, to quell more or less veiled menaces of leaving (the UK check in the CAP comes to mind easily).
[snip]
(You probably meant "David")
Carradice
Orlanthi
Registered: Mar 2013
From Spain
Posted April 03, 2017
low rated
1. Before the Brexit referendum, James Cameron had compiled a list of claims to be considered by the Council of the EU (this means the other countries). It was unanimously approved. Anybody heard about it during the campaign? This was in the line of the special treatment and exemptions that the UK had obtained for decades, to quell more or less veiled menaces of leaving (the UK check in the CAP comes to mind easily).
[snip]
(You probably meant "David")
I sure liked the first scene in Avatar, zero gravity in 3D onboard a spaceship. Yes! And the Albion ripoff that came afterwards was not bad, either!
morolf
I own Komodo dragons as pets
Registered: Aug 2012
From Germany
Posted April 03, 2017
But yeah, while I don't think everything can be blamed on the EU and the Euro (there is more than enough native misrule in Southern Europe), it's pretty disgusting how the massive youth unemployment in Southern Europe is somehow seen as something that just happened and has to be accepted.
Shadowstalker16
Jaded optimist
Registered: Apr 2014
From India
Posted April 03, 2017
1. Before the Brexit referendum, James Cameron had compiled a list of claims to be considered by the Council of the EU (this means the other countries). It was unanimously approved. Anybody heard about it during the campaign? This was in the line of the special treatment and exemptions that the UK had obtained for decades, to quell more or less veiled menaces of leaving (the UK check in the CAP comes to mind easily).
By the way, since the referendum was a YES, the concessions to Cameron's list were revoked. More accurately, they were to be implemented if the referenduy was s NAY, which did not happen.
2. The UK can and certainly will continue to trade with the countries in the EU. Most of the UK imports and exports are to and from the EU nowadays. They have zero tariffs. Yes, zero.
To put it shortly: when the UK effectively leaves the EU, it losses access to the common market (zero tariffs), unless a special agreement is made. That is not to happen since the common market implies the three freedoms of movement: products, capital and people.
An alternative would be an agreement that included reduced tariffs.
The last, extreme, option is no agreement at all. That would mean tariffs within the World Trade Organization agreements. In this scenario, Tanzania would have better tariffs than the UK when trading with the EU.
There is plenty of material to read about the consequences and possible scenarios. An early one (july 2016) came from the house of studies for the British parliament. Recommended.
Edit: in movement (extra points).
Edit2: David (thanks Blakstar)).
F4LL0UT
Get Showgunners!
Registered: Jun 2011
From Poland
Posted April 03, 2017
low rated
National Socialist German Workers' Party - Nazi. Hitler and the Nazi's were left-wingers who hated Republicanism. It is always the left that attacks freedom of speech. As they continue to do so now.
Seriously, just read up about it. You're making an ass of yourself, here.
Not right now, no. Currently we have single-party rule, all state organs that hold the government responsible have been pretty much neutralised and the government simply does the bidding of the ruling party's chairman. It's basically the same shit as in the People's Republic of Poland just in a light version so far. But we're getting there.
Also, Poland restored democracy in June 1989, the Wall came down in November. Again, go educate yourself. The downfall of the Soviet Union began with the Solidarność movement, not the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Dude, don't even go there and pretend that you have the SLIGHTEST idea what is going on in this country. I live here, I see the effects of our right-wing populists on a daily basis. I witnessed how the president promised being independent but suddenly pledged allegiance to Kaczyński the moment PiS won the elections, I have witnessed radical changes happening over-night, I do know that PiS is limiting independent press coverage of what is going on in parliament, I do know how PiS is intentionally reorganising matters to exclude the opposition not only from decision-making but even witnessing how legislations are passed, I have seen how the state media started broadcasting propaganda 24/7, I know what kind of people were inserted into the constitutional tribunal (spoiler: PiS sympathisers), I know that Kaczyński met with Viktor Orban to learn tricks on establishing and maintaining a dictatorship within the European Union, I know of the Christian fundamentalist lawyers who work out the proposals for PiS, I have seen how they are inserting their propaganda into academia, I have heard Kaczyński openly say that realising his vision is worth shattering the economy, I know that surviving resistance fighters from WWII are disgusted by how their achievements are being hijacked by PiS to promote their party, I hear how PiS is discrediting people who were universally held in high regard until they rose to power, I do know how PiS is misrepresenting the downfall of communism, I know how the government is scaring people from speaking their mind online by having cops knock at their doors and confiscate their computers, I know how the former leadership of the Polish military forces left because they weren't willing to serve the interests of PiS, I know what shitty laws PiS has established or announced, I have heard our prime minister proclaim that she'd love to see our movie industry create right wing propaganda pictures. And most recently I have read about the government getting ready to even hijack the video game industry by automatically acquiring a certain percentage of shares in all public video game companies.
And there's currently nobody who holds them accountable. There are only two things they have to fear: an uprising or sanctions.
Seriously, you don't seem to know the first thing about politics. If people voted primarily for ideological rather than practical reasons democracy would be a lot more stable. Winning over the electorate is done by convincing voters that you have the solutions to their problems, of course regardless of whether you actually have them or not. And you must have noticed that the Brexit campaign didn't focus on appealing to nationalist sentiments but on making promises of prosperity, citing specific examples of how this prosperity will supposedly be achieved (that these examples ranged from being flawed to blatant lies is another matter).
Dude, just like with any voluntary membership of anything being a member state of the EU grants certain benefits in exchange for certain obligations. Also, taking in some refugees is a small price to pay compared to the billions Poland has received in grants from the EU. Any and all people unwilling to have their country take in some refugees while having welcomed billions in grants are parasitic assholes, period.
morolf
I own Komodo dragons as pets
Registered: Aug 2012
From Germany
Posted April 03, 2017
wpegg
Optimus Pegg
Registered: Nov 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted April 03, 2017
I'm afraid that, while I'm sure he had the best of intentions, Carradice has mislead you slightly in the answer to your questions. This may be because he better understood the questions you were really asking than I do (I think it comes down to what you meant by "negotiate"), but to take your questions literally and answer them would be as follows:
1) The UK couldn't negotiate EU mandates in any meaningful sense, while it could in cases block things if it had enough support from a few other countries, the direct veto the UK used to have was diluted by the introduction of new members. It was sometimes the case where the EU could directly override the UK without any chance of the UK getting out of it. It could "argue", but "negotiate" suggests that you can't be directly ignored.
2) The UK cannot negotiate trade with EU countries, in fact it cannot negotiate trade with any country inside or outside of the EU. It can trade with other countries under the rules that are in place by the EU, but it cannot, for example, offer to trade at lower tariffs with Brazil. All trade deals are governed by the EU, and any and every EU member is strictly prohibited from any bi-lateral trade agreement. We can set the terms of trade with other countries only as the EU dictates. Within the single market tariffs are near zero (as Carradice pointed out), and outside of the single market they are often prohibitively high in what amounts to continental level protectionism.
Even now as we are preparing to leave, we are not allowed to actually negotiate or sign any new trade agreements (even prospective ones that would not come into force until after we left). This is why there's extensive "discussions" taking place with countries such as Australia, but we cannot even call them "negotiations" for fear of violating these rules. I believe the plan is that these "discussions" will proceed incredibly quickly to "agreements" the moment the EU negotiation period ends.
1) The UK couldn't negotiate EU mandates in any meaningful sense, while it could in cases block things if it had enough support from a few other countries, the direct veto the UK used to have was diluted by the introduction of new members. It was sometimes the case where the EU could directly override the UK without any chance of the UK getting out of it. It could "argue", but "negotiate" suggests that you can't be directly ignored.
2) The UK cannot negotiate trade with EU countries, in fact it cannot negotiate trade with any country inside or outside of the EU. It can trade with other countries under the rules that are in place by the EU, but it cannot, for example, offer to trade at lower tariffs with Brazil. All trade deals are governed by the EU, and any and every EU member is strictly prohibited from any bi-lateral trade agreement. We can set the terms of trade with other countries only as the EU dictates. Within the single market tariffs are near zero (as Carradice pointed out), and outside of the single market they are often prohibitively high in what amounts to continental level protectionism.
Even now as we are preparing to leave, we are not allowed to actually negotiate or sign any new trade agreements (even prospective ones that would not come into force until after we left). This is why there's extensive "discussions" taking place with countries such as Australia, but we cannot even call them "negotiations" for fear of violating these rules. I believe the plan is that these "discussions" will proceed incredibly quickly to "agreements" the moment the EU negotiation period ends.
Post edited April 03, 2017 by wpegg
Shadowstalker16
Jaded optimist
Registered: Apr 2014
From India
Posted April 04, 2017
1) The UK couldn't negotiate EU mandates in any meaningful sense, while it could in cases block things if it had enough support from a few other countries, the direct veto the UK used to have was diluted by the introduction of new members. It was sometimes the case where the EU could directly override the UK without any chance of the UK getting out of it. It could "argue", but "negotiate" suggests that you can't be directly ignored.
2) The UK cannot negotiate trade with EU countries, in fact it cannot negotiate trade with any country inside or outside of the EU. It can trade with other countries under the rules that are in place by the EU, but it cannot, for example, offer to trade at lower tariffs with Brazil. All trade deals are governed by the EU, and any and every EU member is strictly prohibited from any bi-lateral trade agreement. We can set the terms of trade with other countries only as the EU dictates. Within the single market tariffs are near zero (as Carradice pointed out), and outside of the single market they are often prohibitively high in what amounts to continental level protectionism.
Even now as we are preparing to leave, we are not allowed to actually negotiate or sign any new trade agreements (even prospective ones that would not come into force until after we left). This is why there's extensive "discussions" taking place with countries such as Australia, but we cannot even call them "negotiations" for fear of violating these rules. I believe the plan is that these "discussions" will proceed incredibly quickly to "agreements" the moment the EU negotiation period ends.
timppu
Favorite race: Formula__One
Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
Posted April 04, 2017
I sometimes see suggestions that e.g. German companies should invest more to Spain etc. to help with their situation, but I see lots of problems with those suggestions, like can you really demand or force privately owned companies to invest to certain country, against the owners' (stock-holders) support?
I am interested in why e.g. Spain is supposed to be in such a poor condition now. I would think it should be in a much better position than e.g. Finland to get money from other countries, e.g. because of tourism. I mean, who would rather travel to Finland, instead of Spain? Other than some freako wanting to see igloos and polar bears, and we don't even have those either?
I'd expect the Spanish food and farming industry to be much bigger too, after all what can we grow in Finland? Snowballs? In Spain they have all kinds of tasty fruits. vegetables etc. that are also imported all the way here so that we have something to eat.
Is the youth employment possibly because there is lots of illegal cheap workforce from e.g. north African countries that work in Spain, taking the jobs from young Spaniards? Or don't Spanish want to work on Spanish farms etc.?
timppu
Favorite race: Formula__One
Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
Posted April 04, 2017
Yes, a bit like how US states have less autonomy because they are part of USA, compared to if they were their own countries with their own president, own foreign policy, own trade agreements etc. That's the nature of the beast I guess, when you are part of a bigger whole, you have less direct control over shit and things.
Or same in India, I presume different regions would have more power about their own things, if they were not part of India. Like how about them sikhis (Punjab), wouldn't they have more direct control over their own things if they were not part of India?
So how about Scotland's independence, yay or nayay? Are you for the new referendum?
Or same in India, I presume different regions would have more power about their own things, if they were not part of India. Like how about them sikhis (Punjab), wouldn't they have more direct control over their own things if they were not part of India?
So how about Scotland's independence, yay or nayay? Are you for the new referendum?
Post edited April 04, 2017 by timppu
morolf
I own Komodo dragons as pets
Registered: Aug 2012
From Germany
Posted April 04, 2017
I sometimes see suggestions that e.g. German companies should invest more to Spain etc. to help with their situation, but I see lots of problems with those suggestions, like can you really demand or force privately owned companies to invest to certain country, against the owners' (stock-holders) support?
I am interested in why e.g. Spain is supposed to be in such a poor condition now. I would think it should be in a much better position than e.g. Finland to get money from other countries, e.g. because of tourism. I mean, who would rather travel to Finland, instead of Spain? Other than some freako wanting to see igloos and polar bears, and we don't even have those either?
I'd expect the Spanish food and farming industry to be much bigger too, after all what can we grow in Finland? Snowballs? In Spain they have all kinds of tasty fruits. vegetables etc. that are also imported all the way here so that we have something to eat.
Is the youth employment possibly because there is lots of illegal cheap workforce from e.g. north African countries that work in Spain, taking the jobs from young Spaniards? Or don't Spanish want to work on Spanish farms etc.?
No idea what is to be done about it, but I suppose the whole Euro straitjacket doesn't help things.
Matruchus
Don't ignore Tux
Registered: Jun 2011
From Slovenia
Posted April 04, 2017
In some countries like Greece and Spain European Union has removed elected governments and replaced them by puppet governments created by the European Central Bank. There is very little autonomy left especially if you live in a south european country which are effectively controlled by the European Central Bank.
Eitherway congratulations to Britain on exiting the totally derailed project.
Post edited April 04, 2017 by Matruchus
Shadowstalker16
Jaded optimist
Registered: Apr 2014
From India
Posted April 04, 2017
Or same in India, I presume different regions would have more power about their own things, if they were not part of India. Like how about them sikhis (Punjab), wouldn't they have more direct control over their own things if they were not part of India?
Yeah there are separatist movements in many Indian states. Punjab in particular had an insurgent group demanding independence for a Sikh country back in the 70s.
Carradice
Orlanthi
Registered: Mar 2013
From Spain
Posted April 04, 2017
low rated
In some countries like Greece and Spain European Union has removed elected governments and replaced them by puppet governments created by the European Central Bank. There is very little autonomy left especially if you live in a south european country which are effectively controlled by the European Central Bank.
Eitherway congratulations to Britain on exiting the totally derailed project.
The part about Greece and Spain is specially intriguing. I want to know more!
I hope they get married in the end.