I dislike the Devotion rejection but I agree here.

Well, that would be better. However, bear in mind that if that timed restriction is built into the game, then it is still a form of DRM. I think by far the best solution would be for such pre-order bonuses to be provided as separate DLC-like files for those that earned them.

I can't see any reason why that couldn't be done. Unless of course the devs feel the need to conduct purchase authentication to prevent users from simply passing the DLC file onto their mates. Hmm ... in that case though, it sounds quite a lot like they are digitally managing a restriction, doesn't it?

Hey everyone, I am new to GOG so forgive the fact I know next to nothing about 90% of the issues everyone is talking about in this discussion which is at 50 pages so far.

I just wanted to ask something since DRM seams to be talked about a lot here. Now I am not trying to defend GOG or anything but as a "new" user I can only go by what I actually see, and I see this on every game page:

DRM FREE. No activation or online connection required to play.

And when looking at the About GOG page I see the following :

Owning the things you buy
We don't believe in controlling you and your games. Here, you won't be locked out of titles you paid for, or constantly asked to prove you own them - this is DRM-free gaming.

Now just based of this alone, since you have offline installers for your games that never require to be online to play them or prove you own then. Then GOG is fulfilling its DRM Free promise as they promise nothing more.

Now this is simple for 100% single player games, you download you install you play job done (Rebel Galaxy)

Games with built in or heavily focuses on online play however are obviously different as they want you to play the online component. (No Mans Sky)

So from what I can gather, people are saying No Mans Sky has DRM in it because if you want certain things you have to be online which you can't get playing offline without editing your save ??
If this is correct.. well that is not DRM. You are still able to play the game from start to finish offline without going online which is what GOG class as DRM Free. If you don't want to play all aspects of the game you are not going to get all the rewards it is that simple and no you are not entitled to everything just because you don't want to play online.

A good example of this would be Dark souls, you can play the game from start to finish online or offline making it DRM Free. However say it had a PVP covenant with rewards but you don't want to play online... then you are obviously not going to be getting the rewards are you ?
No one that I know who plays Dark souls would consider this DRM because it isn't, and no would say it should be made available to those who want to play offline.

Now about the ... weird argument against the Galaxy launcher ... GOG Says the following:
Galaxy is the tailor-made optional client that adds features like cloud saves, update roll-backs, crossplay, achievements, is a convenient way to install & update games, and stay in touch with friends.

Now I do agree that offline installers should not be ignored but updated as soon as they become available on Galaxy.
However if people get rewarded for using an optional software makes you feel like a second class customer....then that is a you problem sorry ..that is a rather petty reason to complain.

I take it you would complain about FFXIV to ? They have a security token app to help make your account more secure and 100% optional. but using it grants you certain rewards in the game which others don't get.

Honestly I don't see what the problems is ?
Sure I agree with some of the points raised but many are based on speculation and different peoples view on what DRM means as well as what is fair and unfair.

@B1tF1ghter, concerning the "death threat" part of my rant.

Yeah, I DID dwell on something that obviously wasn't the case, didn't I? Oops. X(
That's what I get for typing pissed and half asleep.

Still, thanks for narrowing it down to GOG basically just caving into the demands of whiners.

You know what's the kicker in my case (Which I mention earlier in the thread, I believe)? I personally never had a problem with DRM once in my life. It never stopped me from playing the games I wanna play or made me make a compromise I wasn't comfortable with. I'm part of the cause solely because of the Devotion situation. If it was still up on Steam, I'd own it there because that's where I like to get the new games whereas GOG was my go-to for classic stuff. You'd better believe it'd be a day one purchase (At full price, no less) if they kept their promise, though.

Oh well. I suppose we're still getting to the point where we can have nice things again.

No hard feelings on the dumb part of my rant?

The No Man Sky thing are literally little bonuses to get people into online play that have little to no impact to the actual gameplay. Nothing game braking and basically a "Thank you for playing online".

Most people here have different definitions of what is DRM some gong to the extreme that if a game is design with multiplayer in mind then needing an online connection is "clearly DRM" (Absolver, Gwent, Ashen and a few others).

You will find some very fanatical people here when it comes to these things.

Whether online gameplay is required or not isn't really a DRM issue, IMO. It can however be an adjacent issue, because DRM is much easier to implement when an online connection is guaranteed.

Keep in mind the text you quoted is somewhat flawed. I think their phrasing has unfortunately led to some misconceptions, making this discussion hard to define sometimes.

I'm pretty sure the phrasing "you won't be locked out of titles you paid for" isn't meant to refer to things like being unable to play without an online connection, or even to multiplayer servers being brought down when the company that owns them goes bankrupt. Both of those are issues that, depending on the game, can still be quite anti-consumer and do deserve being addressed, but I don't believe those are what GOG was referring to when they announced their "DRM-free" idea.

Instead I'm fairly sure it refers to things like the game intentionally refusing to play because a DRM solution employed by the game either decided for some reason that you're no longer allowed to, or stopped functioning (e.g. because a DRM server went down or is inaccessible because you can't connect) and is therefore unable to let you play. There are also occasional issues like DRM code violating privacy or messing with your system.

Requiring an online connection for some content (e.g. multiplayer) is NOT by itself DRM, and there are plenty of (mostly older) DRM solutions that don't require one.

That said, I fully support the demand that GOG should stand by its DRM-free stance without exception. DRM generally hurts paying customers but does relatively little to stop piracy.


What is petty, IMO, is ignoring and neglecting customers because they don't use the OPTIONAL client. Providing rewards specifically for using it is just another punch below the belt.

First off, sorry if I sounded like I didn't care....I do.....I also dislike several things GOG has done and is doing.

That said, I was just trying to say that the best way to get companies to change is to affect their bottom line enough(i.e. get enough people on board things like this boycott) and be willing to compromise when/if the time comes.
(i.e. ask for a "big ask" up front, then be willing to settle for less when they turn it down....usually doing so makes it more likely such things will be listened to and given to those asking for such, more so than if the ones boycotting/etc don't give an inch in what they want of a company)

In this case, many seem to have complained either here or on social media(including YTers making videos and etc).....I am guessing that in this case, either somehow the amount of "fuss raised" online over the Devotion issue wasn't enough, or the china(epic/etc) money is sadly too good.

A shame really....I miss how this store and company used to be long ago.


=-=

Well that is more or less what I was alluding to....them adding it as a separate file for non-galaxy users in such cases after a set time, rather then "baking it into the game" with some sort of digital lock.

There's just one little downside to that: Cancelling the Devotion release in no way guarantees that gog will be allowed to operate on the Chinese market. It's been pointed out before: Like Steam, gog operates in a grey area in China. If you want to sell games in China, you're supposed to only sell games that were cleared by the censors and partner up with a Chinese company. 99% of the games here haven't been cleared by the censors. And if the censors ever got their hands on Cyberpunk 2077, they'd reject it as soon as they come to the character creation screen.

The only reason gog continues to operate in China (for now) is that the Cyberspace Administration of China (yes, that's what it is actually called and yes, they're in charge of firewalling stuff) apparently isn't aware of them yet.

And speaking as someone who has used gog from inside the Chinese mainland, it has only been fairly recently - with their launch of the Chinese-language storefront sometime in 2017-ish - that gog even became somewhat usable. In the past, their service was de facto unusable from inside China, since they extensively used CDNs and services that were blocked in China: gog using a blocked CDN to store your game downloads? Say goodbye to your games! Gog puts google craptcha on fucking everything? Welp, google is blocked, no more redeeming keys for you! Gog embeds youtube videos on the game pages? No videos for you, instead you get a neat error message plastered across the game page.

All of these issues got fixed when their Chinese-language storefront launched, but like I said, it's only been fairly recently and I honestly can't imagine that gog built much of a following in the 3-or-so years in China since then.

Lemme guess....is it maybe the bit where one can supposedly customize their "bottom half"? ;)

Hi, Broadly speaking I agree with most of what you say. I have little knowledge of the subtler issues in this thread, but don't approve of what may be creeping restrictions and DRM into games offered by GOG. This may be because they've become too fond of money or possibly to keep the business afloat.

I only discovered GOG on 26-12-2020 and have only just begun "serious" gaming. I set up a 10 year old PC with an equally old used graphics card (I've needed to learn a bit about graphics), and bought about 30 old games for about £55 (about $70 US). GOG provides a great service in that entry level gaming can be very cheap. I like simplicity - here one pays, downloads and plays the game with no strings - a clean deal. GOG takes over from where people such as Myrealgames.com leave off. This type of site provides legal free games, mainly arcade, match 3, hidden object, etc.

Hopefully GOG will listen to their customers!!!

Nevermind

You can be forgiven for not knowing any better but not for openly implying people are wrong here just because you don't see a problem yet.

Law of major amount of countries doesn't agree with this statement.
Protip for everyone: when you backup your legally obtained installers also do backup your purchase confirmations "just in case".

They aren't. "He says he didn't do it so it must mean it's true". Please... Merely claiming intention has nothing to do with actual actions.
GOG has sworn advertised principles... And they openly spit into their customers faces by blatantly breaking them hoping nobody is going to notice (and majority doesn't but people like ones in this thread do).

Yeah... NO... NMS is pretty blatantly obviously mostly singleplayer game. It's clearly built in "multiplayer optional" manner.
And while it had added some multiplayer interaction components they are still optional and the game is built in a way that you don't have to interact with anyone else to play it. NMS is NOT "online focused" imo.

If one day GOG would say "in our opinion Denuvo isn't DRM so we allow it in our installers and since WE don't see it as DRM then installers are DRM-free" would you believe them?
It DOESN'T matter how GOG defines DRM-free.
It's not GOG-made term.
It has actual definition.

If you don't go online in NMS you miss some % of content.

Oh yeah, how dare we loyal customers expect GOG to fullfill their ADVERTISED promises of "100% DRM-free"... Sigh...

What version are you talking about?
Steam?
GfWL?
CONSOLE?
If you cannot play it entirely without ever utilising (even just for "initial setup" that requires some form of online connectivity say for license verification) Steam or GfWL then no, it's NOT DRM-free.

Oh because you clearly know EVERYBODY who plays Dark Souls and know their TRUE opinions...
I am a Dark Souls player, and I acknowledge what you described CAN be seen as a form of DRM. So your entire argument and claim just toppled.

Well "optional" in that regards means "you don't have to use the app and if you don't then you don't get the additional content" ergo "if you want the additional content this is the only way so it's in no way optional, it's mandatory".
It's clearly a form of DRM then and it doesn't matter that YOU don't see it as such.

Just because YOU don't see it as a problem does NOT mean it is "not a problem".

Oh yeah, "how dare you compain that we claim one thing (ALWAYS optional Galaxy) and do something different (Galaxy MANDATORY to get some additional content or the most up to date offline installers)".
Sigh.
If people get rewarded for using something that is claimed to be ALWAYS optional then it means it is no longer optional to use it because you need to use it to get the best possible experience (the most recent version or ALL the content).
And it's also dividing customers into more and less important groups.

I don't think you understand what means " 100% DRM free".
It means that even 0.001 % of the game, say one in-game t-shirt is locked behind online verification gate then it means it is NOT 100% DRM free.
Online authentication, regardless if we are talking external account or Galaxy based IS DRM.

edit: clarified something

Afaik one of them is a ship and it's not some repaint just completely separate model with different specs so I don't see how this "has little to no impact on actual gameplay".

I think pretty important thing to note is that it's totally possible to implement multiplayer in most games without using Galaxy.
You just make the game communicate on it's own to developer's servers entirely ommitting Galaxy API.
That way the game stays free of "optional" Galaxy while remaining multiplayer enabled.
There is also LAN play, which is often removed from old games here and replaced with Galaxy for no reason (it is one thing to add Galaxy as another option but ENTIRELY removing LAN option is just down right pointless and anti-customer).

Whether multiplayer-oriented game is DRMed or not highly depends on how multiplayer component was implemented. This needs to be taken on case by case scenario. It's not really possible to throw each and every multiplayer-focused game into a bag and call it all DRMed.

This.

I suggest you examine modern history and check if "peaceful protests" gained same effects as more radical (but still not violent) ones.
Being passive isn't going to help anything here.

Oh it gets better ;)
What people blatantly ignore or purely don't realise is this:
Steam is being ostracized for creating "Steam China" (joint venture between Valve and some chinese company, I did a write up about it in either this thread or another thread long time ago). A special dedicated SEPARATE software platform specificly ONLY for chinese market where chinese censors can "go wild". Like I said before. It's not perfect but that's about the best thing Valve could have done to ensure independence of "main" Steam.
It is worth noting that "Steam China" (officially "Steam Platform" when translated from chinese) only has "Steam" in the name and generally speaking it has nothing to do with "main" Steam. It could as well be named completely differently.
This whole approach is great because there is effectively a SANDBOX platform exclusively for China where any censorship bullshit gets contained and it does not carry over to "main" Steam.
It's a win. Main Steam remains independent, Valve creates separate sandbox to not compromise their international software.
I don't see why people get so blindly angry about this.

Now, here is where things get sketchy.
Apparently GOG has same kind of separate platform just for China. I have not seen any direct proof yet anywhere publicly but there is a ton of hints for that.
For example
[url=https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Gwent:_The_Witcher_Card_Game]https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Gwent:_The_Witcher_Card_Game[/url]
quote: "Chinese version. Only available in Mainland China with Simplified Chinese subtitles and Mandarin audio.".
There is at least separate chinese portal for Gwent. That's for certain.

So if we are supposed to be reading between lines to come to the conclusion that GOG which allegedly wants to mass market their future Witcher mobile game in "cash market" (aka China) and they potentially obliterated Devotion release to not get blasted by Chinese gov into retreating from Chinese market, well, then why not just block it on your "GOG China" since you clearly are more than likely to release your "Witcher mobile" on it and not on "main" GOG in terms of it's distribution specificly in China?
This gets overlooked. But it's beyond BS and GOG clearly acts here far worse than Valve.

None. Why would I have any? You are free to voice your opinions and theories (like you did) regardless if they make sense or not.
This is internet where free speech is a thing, so you shouldn't feel wrong about discussing things ;)

I'm not going to even pretend here, if I can remove DRM myself then I often get games on Steam.
Even just sheer Steam emulator is already good enough vast majority of times.
I have some deep technical knowledge about both Steam and gamedev so I guess it's easier for me.
Still, I deeply care about true DRM-free, and it profoundly pisses me off if for example IOI makes Hitman 2016 not fully playable in offline.
Yet, if I can remove DRM from Steam release myself then it's often good with me.
But ultimately "DRM-free by default" is better.

Don't worry, I often write in ridiculously unconcious state ;)
Thing with GOG is that their decisions are so blatantly awkward that assuming "innocent unless proven guilty" is just naive.





In before I get blasted to oblivion (downvoted) solely because this post is "long" and many people downvote just for that because they don't like reading much :S
(or because I made 2 posts in a row because some people think responding to large amount of things at once is "wrong" or something)

@B1tF1ghter Not sure why your post is shown as "low rated" but I at least want to try and respond to the points you made without half a page of quotes on quotes.

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Sure I may not know any better but I am still going to voice my opinion from what I see/understand about the matter which is what everyone else is doing hence the difference in everyone's opinions on a boycott.
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I completely agree with you about backing anything that shows you proof of purchase for digital goods.
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When it comes GOG and DRM I did say in my post that as a "new" customer I can only comment on what I see presented to me which was the two quotes I posted. If I find I am indeed getting what is advertised then to me they are fulfilling there DRM Free promise.
However If indeed like you said GOG have treated customers badly and broken there own rules on DRM a few times then sure something must be done about it, I completely agree with you on that point.
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The problem with NMS is that we were promised one thing and given something completely different. When they were advertising the game everyone was going on about multiplayer and what you could do with your friends and other people, obviously what we got was way different.
Sure I wouldn't say the version we have now is online focused..but people really wanted it and after many free updates its been added into the game.
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Well this is the definition from the Encyclopedia Britannica
Digital rights management (DRM), protection of copyrighted works by various means to control or prevent digital copies from being shared over computer networks or telecommunications networks.

So if we are going to go by the actual definition of what DRM is ... then as long as you can share your digital games (which you can) then you have DRM free games from GOG.
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Now B1tF1ghte I don't mean any disrespect or anything but the definition is very clear to what DRM is and it is nothing to do with what a lot of people are complaining about here.
100% DRM free means just that ... no DRM to stop you sharing the games you bought nothing more nothing less.

And sure I admit I pirate a load of games that are EPIC or STEAM only... I don't play into real DRM.
Also there is a website that has nothing but GOG offline installers for every game all updated including NMS and Cyberpunk. Just download install and play.. no DRM and Galaxy just 100% DRM Free gaming.

Like I said not meaning any disrespect to you or anyone.. but it seams many people here go on about things not being DRM Free ... without knowing the definition of what DRM is in the first place.